Help me understand healthcare reform

[wufwugy]

You have a very interesting view of Obama being a true right winger. My parents have been registered republicans most of their lives but changed to democrat after Reagan. They don't follow one way or another. They just vote for what they believe is right through research. My dad is a pretty knowledgeable when it comes to politics. He's usually the one that I go to for advice. I'll share your opinion of Obama with him and see what he says. So far, they are big fans of Obama.

It's tough to explain. I'm a fan of Obama, but I also hate what he does in other ways. It's not cut and dry in politics. So much of it is fucked if you do, fucked if you don't, and the kind of power a POTUS has is very wavering and hard to pinpoint.

Obama is almost identical to conservative policy of just a decade ago, but he's also residing over possibly the biggest corporate takeover in US history. The main difference between Bush and Obama was that Bush was corrupt and crony, while Obama pushes the exact same fundamental policy except not corrupt. This is an important difference, but I'm positive that the difference is not pushed hard enough by Obama to produce lasting change

For example, our primary problem this last decade hasn't been the supply-side trickle-down corporate garbage that shovels money into the wealthy first, but that the financial system is rigged against economy. We could actually do pretty well with Obama-esque economic policy if, and only if, he controlled the banks' leverage. But he doesn't. Nobody does. The banks are in charge. They are the most powerful entity in Washington, and they are only beginning to actualize their power at the expense of the people

Virtually everything Obama does will mean nothing because there is a financial crash coming that will make 08 look like nothing. Gambling has become 100% subsidized by the US taxpayer, and the nature of financial gambling is that they actually want enormous booms and busts

I have a whole bunch of good things to say about Obama, but he is a failure because he refuses to rally the people and take on the banks, take on corporate takeover of Washington, and take on unjust law like torture and drugs. For somebody who refuses to do what he should, Obama is pretty great. For somebody who believes in our system, Obama is great. But dressing your Camaro up to look like a Ferrari will never make it a Ferrari

Also, I am a fool for actually thinking good things about Obama. His policy propagates some of the most evil things in the world, and one call to his DoJ would fix a whole lot of injustice in my life. Even though I'm anti-corporatism and Ron Paul is a complete nutjob who would give the keys to the rich, I could actually vote for him because he might pick up the phone and tell them to stop prosecuting people for things like drugs or gambling. That's a pipedream though. Paul would be influenced to not do it one way or another. Tony Soprano had nothing on big business' racketeering of the government

[a500lbgorilla]

Virtually everything Obama does will mean nothing because there is a financial crash coming that will make 08 look like nothing. Gambling has become 100% subsidized by the US taxpayer, and the nature of financial gambling is that they actually want enormous booms and busts

Not 100%. Or rather, for the many ways that investment banking is 100% subsidized, how many ways is it not? This is a lame way of putting it, but what are the chances that trillion dollar bailouts for private banks round 2 is successful?

I have a whole bunch of good things to say about Obama, but he is a failure because he refuses to rally the people and take on the banks, take on corporate takeover of Washington, and take on unjust law like torture and drugs. For somebody who refuses to do what he should, Obama is pretty great. For somebody who believes in our system, Obama is great. But dressing your Camaro up to look like a Ferrari will never make it a Ferrari

He really does fail in those things that we want him to be fight for and succeed in those things that we expected him to.

Also, I am a fool for actually thinking good things about Obama. His policy propagates some of the most evil things in the world, and one call to his DoJ would fix a whole lot of injustice in my life. Even though I'm anti-corporatism and Ron Paul is a complete nutjob who would give the keys to the rich, I could actually vote for him because he might pick up the phone and tell them to stop prosecuting people for things like drugs or gambling. That's a pipedream though. Paul would be influenced to not do it one way or another. Tony Soprano had nothing on big business' racketeering of the government

:/ too true.

[wufwugy]

Not 100%. Or rather, for the many ways that investment banking is 100% subsidized, how many ways is it not? This is a lame way of putting it, but what are the chances that trillion dollar bailouts for private banks round 2 is successful?

Naw it is a 100% subsidy. They completely failed, we rescued them, and we will do it again. The banks are even bigger than before, and a financial collapse is 100% unacceptable. People don't realize what this actually means. If we didn't save our failing financial system we would have seen like 80% unemployment in just a matter of weeks. There is zero percent chance that we will not save the banks for double, triple, even 10x what we did before. The nation's citizenry will become a giant Hooverville before we stop trying to rescued a fucked financial system because without a working financial system, you don't have monetary transactions. Financial collapse is true economic armageddon

There is not one shred of evidence that the same thing will not happen again, yet even bigger. It will probably take at least a generation in order for businesses to forget what corrupt financial system does to them


Also, the Bush admin knew what they were doing when they forced Lehman into bankruptcy. They could have avoided the whole crash by immediately propping them up, but they forced them to collapse, which basically put a monkey wrench into global financial trade, and we had no choice but to save the banks or lose the ability to process financial transactions. Every bank would have gone under, then every business would go under. Walmart would have closed shop in under a month. If the financial system fails, the entire US fails because credit cards, fifty dollar bills, and business brands become as worthless as rocks

Anyways, the Bush Admin (or at least its boss, the Fed and banks) were relying on killing Lehman so the taxpayer would be forced to give them nearly ten trillion in salvation money

[a500lbgorilla]

Naw it is a 100% subsidy. They completely failed, we rescued them, and we will do it again.

And we will do it again?

This is a philosophical question at this point.

If the banks ask us for 1,000 billion dollars, will we give it to them? I say no, you sound like you say yes, who wants to accurately predict the future?

we would have seen like 80% unemployment in just a matter of weeks. There is zero percent chance that we will not save the banks for double, triple, even 10x what we did before

No way... seriously no way. I'll accept that you're swinging high to cover your low, but you're swinging so high that I can't help but think "no way"

This sounds like I slipped into opposite world and Coyote News is telling me about how the conservative media downplays President Jack Obama Johnson's economic plan.

I have no foundation for my no way belief but I find it difficult to think you have any better.

Also, the Bush admin knew what they were doing when they forced Lehman into bankruptcy.

Seriously, I can't accept this. It's crazy talk. The Bush Admin was not some omnipotent, omniseeing, omniacting force in the world. Whatever caused Lehman Bros to collapse would probably be better attributed to the agents of that profession.

I just want to know what Obamacare is/was/will be.

[wufwugy]

And we will do it again?

This is a philosophical question at this point.

If the banks ask us for 1,000 billion dollars, will we give it to them? I say no, you sound like you say yes, who wants to accurately predict the future?

We absolutely will give them the money they need because "we" give it via proxy, and the banks, business, and politicians know that a collapsed financial system is game over. The only way we wouldn't give them money is if we physically stormed their headquarters with pitchforks

No way... seriously no way. I'll accept that you're swinging high to cover your low, but you're swinging so high that I can't help but think "no way"

This sounds like I slipped into opposite world and Coyote News is telling me about how the conservative media downplays President Jack Obama Johnson's economic plan.

I have no foundation for my no way belief but I find it difficult to think you have any better.

I don't think you're understanding what a financial system is. One thing it is is the ability to process financial transactions. EVERYTHING in the economy is dependent upon this. If the banks go under, transactions cease, and every other single business in the entire economy closes shop. Our government will stop at literally nothing to make sure the financial system does not collapse. This is why it's important to structure the financial system in such a way that institutional failure doesn't create systemic failure. Some of Europe has been passing policy that does this, but US has made it even worse

Seriously, I can't accept this. It's crazy talk. The Bush Admin was not some omnipotent, omniseeing, omniacting force in the world. Whatever caused Lehman Bros to collapse would probably be better attributed to the agents of that profession.

Naw it's not crazy at all. It's basic basic econ. The administration was given the option to stop Lehman from failing, but instead they pushed for bankruptcy. They had full knowledge that this would freeze a plethora of global transactions then there would be a cascade of defaults on virtually everything in the entire economy. The only way they didn't know this is if they were so brainwashed by their retarded Invisible Hand worship, which actually is a probability. Being able to analyze and calculate the damage of letting Lehman go under is basic stuff though. You could say they had so much hubris they were incompetent. I do think that could apply to the Administration, but not to the Administration's boss, Goldman Sachs. They've known exactly what's going on the entire time and they have placed their bets accordingly. They knew that it would work out much better to sacrifice a smaller bank in order to create the panic to allow them to dump their trillions of toxic assets onto the government

I just want to know what Obamacare is/was/will be.

I have read excellent synopses of it, but I couldn't find them again