How do you know you're a person open to reason?

[a500lbgorilla]

Doesn't matter. If it's not wrong in some judgment, even if the details are not known, it means that the wrongness is created by the existence of the law. While that is a reasonable position to take, I disagree with it and I think most others do to.

In my tomato example, do you think the guy who punched the gardener did anything wrong?

The tomato seeds are doing much more work than you are.

The guy that punched you and took the tomatoes did nothing wrong. He was able to do it and he got tomatoes for it.

To call it wrong is to try to control the behavior of others. Don't do wrong things, only do right things.

[Savy]

The guy that punched you and took the tomatoes did nothing wrong. He was able to do it and he got tomatoes for it.

To call it wrong is to try to control the behavior of others.

This is true.

Although clearly if you are growing tomatoes and someone keeps taking them you stop wasting your time growing tomatoes leading to neither party having tomatoes hence leaving both parties worse off.

Pretty simple really.

[a500lbgorilla]

This is true.

Although clearly if you are growing tomatoes and someone keeps taking them you stop wasting your time growing tomatoes leading to neither party having tomatoes hence leaving both parties worse off.

Pretty simple really.

One of those parties worse off is you.

When have you chosen personal suffering to make a grander point and how has that worked out for you?

[Savy]

One of those parties worse off is you.

When have you chosen personal suffering to make a grander point and how has that worked out for you?

It isn't personal suffering though you only grow the tomatoes if it is of a net benefit for you to do that, if that scenario doesn't exist you aren't worse off because the potential for what you wanted to do didn't exist in the first place.

It's also worth mentioning that rather than losing all your tomatoes you put more effort into making it less easy for your tomatoes to be taken. All sorts itself out into a nice equilibrium.

[a500lbgorilla]

It isn't personal suffering though you only grow the tomatoes if it is of a net benefit for you to do that, if that scenario doesn't exist you aren't worse off because the potential for what you wanted to do didn't exist in the first place.

It's also worth mentioning that rather than losing all your tomatoes you put more effort into making it less easy for your tomatoes to be taken. All sorts itself out into a nice equilibrium.

Glad the world is and has always enjoyed a nice equilibrium.

[Savy]

Glad the world is and has always enjoyed a nice equilibrium.

Not implied by what I said but ok.

[OngBonga]

This is true.

Although clearly if you are growing tomatoes and someone keeps taking them you stop wasting your time growing tomatoes leading to neither party having tomatoes hence leaving both parties worse off.

Pretty simple really.

Yeah I'm not gonna stop growing tomatoes, I'm just going to be prepared for the next time he comes. If there's no law to protect my ownership of tomatoes, there's no law to protect him from being beaten with a rock.

[a500lbgorilla]

Yeah I'm not gonna stop growing tomatoes, I'm just going to be prepared for the next time he comes. If there's no law to protect my ownership of tomatoes, there's no law to protect him from being beaten with a rock.

Me too. Hey, let's flip this script and just go fuck up these tomatoe thieves.