JEHOVAH'S WITNESS??

[mrhappy333]

Has anyone else here grown up as a JW? I did and I did not like it. Does anyone here Know any JW's? and what do you think about that religion? Or any religion for that matter? I'm not trying to get Holy or any of that. Just trying to answer one of those life questions? Creation vs. Evolution?


ANY THOUGHTS???

[spoonitnow]

I actually did. I swear I have a fucked up family. Stopped when I was probably 10 or 11 though. I never really got into it, but both my parents were baptized, which requires the tests and yadda yadda yadda.

I won't touch the general religion questions because I don't feel like typing that much.

[mrhappy333]

yeah, I know alot of my friends families that are F'd up, that are JW's or were JW's. I want to know if it was the religion, or if they are just F'd up without it. It seems most of the kids I grew with in school actually were good kids, not like what I was taught in JW hall. You know that worldly people are all bad. It seems the kids in the Hall were alot worse than the Kids in the World. if you know what I mean?

[grnydrowave2]

There was a Jehova's Witness in my 2nd grade class. Any time we talked about Halloween or Christmas, he would sit in the corner and stick his fingers in his ears...

I felt sorry for the kid.

[spoonitnow]

My family was fucked up long before they became Jehovah's Witnesses.

I don't think it's fair to single out Jehovah's Witnesses as having a lot of hypocrites and whatnot, because that's how it is for all religions.

People in general are pretty fucked up. I don't think it's fair to attribute that [completely] to religion of any form. People can't always break out of what they are taught growing up, whether it's religion or having racist beliefs or whatever. It's not always their fault they believe like they do.

A lot of people will counter that statement by saying that logically things like racism don't make any sense, so people should be able to figure it out on their own eventually. This would be ideal, but it's hardly ever the case. The majority of people aren't intelligent enough to overcome things like religious dogma or racist beliefs in their mind (I keep coming back to the racist beliefs things because it's a good example). It becomes even harder when those beliefs are reinforced by the people around you on a constant day-to-day basis.

When people grow up being told that something is the truth, whether that something is religion, racism, sexism, or whatever, then from their perspective, that is how things are and how the world is. They truly don't know any better.

I avoid discussions about peoples religious beliefs unless I know the person is intelligent enough to actually take something from the conversation. Otherwise, it only makes them irritated and causes me unnecessary stress.

[grnydrowave2]

I avoid discussions about peoples religious beliefs unless I know the person is intelligent enough to actually take something from the conversation. Otherwise, it only makes them irritated and causes me unnecessary stress.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

I believe it's possible for people to be raised with certain ideologies, and reject those beliefs later in life. But it works both ways. If you get frustrated over religious discussions, perhaps you have your own preconcieved notions that you are unable or unwilling to concede.

[mrhappy333]

I avoid discussions about peoples religious beliefs unless I know the person is intelligent enough to actually take something from the conversation. Otherwise, it only makes them irritated and causes me unnecessary stress.

VERY GOOD POINT HERE. I am usually the same way. I have been doing some research on the internet about different religions, and then discussing these with my mother, who is still a JW, and who also lives with me now for the summer.(she's a snow bird now) CT and FLA.

I don't know if she is actually listening to what I have to say, or just trying to still convince me that she's in the only true religion<her belief>.

I do know they were started around 1800's by a guy named Charles Taz Russell. So I don't know how she can tell me they are the only true religion, when other religions have been around for thousands of years before this guy. It just boggles my mind............

[spoonitnow]

I avoid discussions about peoples religious beliefs unless I know the person is intelligent enough to actually take something from the conversation. Otherwise, it only makes them irritated and causes me unnecessary stress.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

I believe it's possible for people to be raised with certain ideologies, and reject those beliefs later in life. But it works both ways. If you get frustrated over religious discussions, perhaps you have your own preconcieved notions that you are unable or unwilling to concede.

The point I was trying to make is that some people aren't capable of having a meaningful debate or conversation. To try to have a meaningful debate or conversation with these people is a waste of time. I don't get frustrated over religious discussions, I get frustrated in any kind of discussion where any party involved isn't capable of critical thought.

Of course it's possible for people to be raised one way and believe differently later in life. That's common sense, and I wasn't trying to say the contrary.

[Miffed22001]

ugh
I wont discuss religion either, id be here all day.
Saying that both my parents grew up in heavily religious families here in Britain but neither particularly follow it now, nor did they ever encourage me, im an aethiest btw.
Having said that, my gran is a Jehova's witness and has always show me books and given me things to read on religion, which is probably why i began to see what i feel is the inherant hypocracy of religious values but meh lets not go there.
I didnt really want to say this as its not a suitable place but my Gran was diagnosed with cancer a few years back, and felt that she shouldnt go for an operation that would hopefully help clear it up. Instead she felt her beliefs and herbal remedies would help her fight against the disease. Obviously the family were distraught but the cancer has gone into remition.
Saying that, i have to say that in the realism vs religion battle i just totally dont think religion has any place in the modern world and while beliefs should be respected, i dont think they should ever have a leading roll in shaping the way we live our lives.

Also, this is one of the reasons why i am very anti-semetic, especially toward events in the middle east involving the palestinians. Anyone who proffesses to be 'gods people' or watnot will gain no respect in my book for thinking they are more 'special' than me.
Their would seem to be a similarity between racial issues here that leads from religion... oh shit im not going there

[mrhappy333]

ugh
I wont discuss religion either, id be here all day.
Saying that both my parents grew up in heavily religious families here in Britain but neither particularly follow it now, nor did they ever encourage me, im an aethiest btw.
Having said that, my gran is a Jehova's witness and has always show me books and given me things to read on religion, which is probably why i began to see what i feel is the inherant hypocracy of religious values but meh lets not go there.
I didnt really want to say this as its not a suitable place but my Gran was diagnosed with cancer a few years back, and felt that she shouldnt go for an operation that would hopefully help clear it up. Instead she felt her beliefs and herbal remedies would help her fight against the disease. Obviously the family were distraught but the cancer has gone into remition.
Saying that, i have to say that in the realism vs religion battle i just totally dont think religion has any place in the modern world and while beliefs should be respected, i dont think they should ever have a leading roll in shaping the way we live our lives.

Also, this is one of the reasons why i am very anti-semetic, especially toward events in the middle east involving the palestinians. Anyone who proffesses to be 'gods people' or watnot will gain no respect in my book for thinking they are more 'special' than me.
Their would seem to be a similarity between racial issues here that leads from religion... oh shit im not going there

Well I was hoping this was going to be the thread to discuss religion..

[Lukie]

Has anyone else here grown up as a JW? I did and I did not like it. Does anyone here Know any JW's? and what do you think about that religion? Or any religion for that matter? I'm not trying to get Holy or any of that. Just trying to answer one of those life questions? Creation vs. Evolution?


ANY THOUGHTS???

Evolution, I cry for anyone who disagrees.

[mrhappy333]

Has anyone else here grown up as a JW? I did and I did not like it. Does anyone here Know any JW's? and what do you think about that religion? Or any religion for that matter? I'm not trying to get Holy or any of that. Just trying to answer one of those life questions? Creation vs. Evolution?


ANY THOUGHTS???

Evolution, I cry for anyone who disagrees.

can u please elaborate? the big bang theory? How did the stuff come around to make the big bang?

[a500lbgorilla]

Has anyone else here grown up as a JW? I did and I did not like it. Does anyone here Know any JW's? and what do you think about that religion? Or any religion for that matter? I'm not trying to get Holy or any of that. Just trying to answer one of those life questions? Creation vs. Evolution?


ANY THOUGHTS???

Evolution, I cry for anyone who disagrees.

God made you stupid for a reason, Lukie. Im gonna figure out why.

[Lukie]

Has anyone else here grown up as a JW? I did and I did not like it. Does anyone here Know any JW's? and what do you think about that religion? Or any religion for that matter? I'm not trying to get Holy or any of that. Just trying to answer one of those life questions? Creation vs. Evolution?


ANY THOUGHTS???

Evolution, I cry for anyone who disagrees.

can u please elaborate? the big bang theory? How did the stuff come around to make the big bang?

I can't answer that question (nobody can). There are a plethora of scientific theories that deal with this, one of which may be true. The more important thing though is to realize that we just got into space 50 years ago, and people who think we should have the origins of the universe figured out (which happened 10-20 billion years ago) by now just aren't being reasonable.

[Lukie]

Has anyone else here grown up as a JW? I did and I did not like it. Does anyone here Know any JW's? and what do you think about that religion? Or any religion for that matter? I'm not trying to get Holy or any of that. Just trying to answer one of those life questions? Creation vs. Evolution?


ANY THOUGHTS???

Evolution, I cry for anyone who disagrees.

God made you stupid for a reason, Lukie. Im gonna figure out why.

[Greedo017]

can u please elaborate? the big bang theory? How did the stuff come around to make the big bang?

Even if we have no idea whether the big bang or anything is right, why is it somehow more reasonable to assume some boogieman in the sky popped everything into existance? Its just as much religion's burden of proof as it is science's, except religion conveniently admits it never has any proof on anything.

[samsonite2100]

Also, this is one of the reasons why i am very anti-semetic, especially toward events in the middle east involving the palestinians.

You know being "anti-semitic" means you don't like jews, right? And being "very anti-semitic" puts you in some pretty choice company. Ok, just checking...

[samsonite2100]

Lukie wrote:
mrhappy333 wrote:
Has anyone else here grown up as a JW? I did and I did not like it. Does anyone here Know any JW's? and what do you think about that religion? Or any religion for that matter? I'm not trying to get Holy or any of that. Just trying to answer one of those life questions? Creation vs. Evolution?


ANY THOUGHTS???

Evolution, I cry for anyone who disagrees.


can u please elaborate? the big bang theory? How did the stuff come around to make the big bang?

I think he means anyone who doesn't believe in evolution is stupid. Which I agree with. Conflating evolution with the origins of the universe is apples and oranges, also. We have ample evidence that life has been around for billions of years on earth, including a robust fossil record that points to the evolution of hominids from apelike creatures to modern man over the last 150,000 or so years.

How the universe began is a difficult, maybe impossible, question to answer that people may have to address on the basis of their own personal cosmologies. But even if someone believes that a magical bearded fellow in the sky created everything, they're fighting a losing intellectual battle if they try to say He didn't also create evolution.

[Warpe]

If Jehovah's Witnesses knock on your door, take off all your clothes and answer the door naked. Works for me. That is all.

[Pelion]

Also, this is one of the reasons why i am very anti-semetic, especially toward events in the middle east involving the palestinians. Anyone who proffesses to be 'gods people' or watnot will gain no respect in my book for thinking they are more 'special' than me.
Their would seem to be a similarity between racial issues here that leads from religion... oh shit im not going there

Anti-semitism is just racism. There is no reason why events in the middle east should turn you against any old anonymous Jew. You can disagree with the actions of the Israeli state, but you also have to recognise that there are Jews around the world who also activly oppose those actions.

e.g. Refusniks are Israeli soldiers who refuse to serve in palestinian areas because they recognise that israeli occupation "causes an impossible situation for [palestinian] normal life."

I guess all im trying to say is that Jewish people arent inherently evil. Its important to seperate the will of the Israeli state from the will of individual Jews and it is important to judge each indivdual person on their own beliefs and actions.

[Miffed22001]

Also, this is one of the reasons why i am very anti-semetic, especially toward events in the middle east involving the palestinians. Anyone who proffesses to be 'gods people' or watnot will gain no respect in my book for thinking they are more 'special' than me.
Their would seem to be a similarity between racial issues here that leads from religion... oh shit im not going there

Anti-semitism is just racism. There is no reason why events in the middle east should turn you against any old anonymous Jew. You can disagree with the actions of the Israeli state, but you also have to recognise that there are Jews around the world who also activly oppose those actions.

e.g. Refusniks are Israeli soldiers who refuse to serve in palestinian areas because they recognise that israeli occupation "causes an impossible situation for [palestinian] normal life."

I guess all im trying to say is that Jewish people arent inherently evil. Its important to seperate the will of the Israeli state from the will of individual Jews and it is important to judge each indivdual person on their own beliefs and actions.

All i will say about israel is that Hitler exterminated Jews during the war, a great atrocity. However, i wake up every day and see palestinians and others being blown up by israeli military action. Who was worse, Hitler comitting atrocities or the israeli state commiting war crimes against other peoples of the middle east.
Under law their should be no distinction and i feel their isnt, israel is as guilty as the nazi state for atrocities. Yet i see no israelis in a court of law up for war crimes do you? In fact i find it even worse that their experiences of the halucaust are being semi-replicated on other peoples. I could talk and argue all day, but that makes israel no better than the nazis IMO.
That will be controversial i know, but thats all i see every day.

As for religion, meh where do we start?
My problem with religion is this. Religion defines a person as something, whether that be a muslim, a christian or a budhist. Conversly it also alienates other people who are 'not' of the same religious type. Modern events prove how this forms problems bewteen people of different religions. It fundamnetally creates that situation where 'my xxxx is bigger/better than your xxxx'
One of the key problems in modern society is that people cannot rectify problems when their are differneces of opinion, and religion imo created the original problems by creating groups and also doesnt help to solve these problems.
Thats the short version, i cant be bothered qwriting an easy on it, religion just makes the problems of difference that occur everyday like skin colour, langauge etc that much more difficult.

[arkana]

Why do people think evolution contradicts the possibility of a creator?

[Warpe]

Why do people think evolution contradicts the possibility of a creator?

God only knows.

[samsonite2100]

Who was worse, Hitler comitting atrocities or the israeli state commiting war crimes against other peoples of the middle east.

Hitler.

[Miffed22001]

If this is nsfw, plz add links mods, apologies in advance if it is.






Where exactly is the difference?The merciless slaughter of fellow human beings is wrong, plain and simple, no matter what the 'excuse'

[spoonitnow]

Why do people think evolution contradicts the possibility of a creator?

God only knows.

I'm pretty sure the whole creation vs evolution argument is only around for people who don't understand what evolution is.

[samsonite2100]

Where exactly is the difference?The merciless slaughter of fellow human beings is wrong, plain and simple, no matter what the 'excuse'

I'm not defending Israel's latest military offensive, and I am in no way, shape, or form a Zionist, or a supporter of the Zionist mindset.

However...

There is an obvious difference, both in scope and immorality, between the typical brand of merciless, pragmatic military nastiness committed by many countries at one point or another--the US and Israel being prime examples, and the systematic extermination of 6 million people by the Nazis.

If you can't see a difference there, I feel sorry for you.

[mrhappy333]

well now that we are talking about WAR, why do the leaders, like George W. say when their about to bomb some country...."and GOD bless America" or In the name of ALLAH, or Muhamed?? It just doesn't make sense..

[Miffed22001]

i see the difference, but how israel otally gets away with war crimes is beyond me. If the only reason that country exists is becasue of US backing/support then thats problem, but id rather america had some influence in that area than none.
Personally, the world is in relativly safe hands if the US in charge. At least we wont end up in a global war (hoperfully) whereas with some of the others (notably the french) wed just end up in a mess.

[samsonite2100]

i see the difference, but how israel otally gets away with war crimes is beyond me.

Well, to an extent I think Israel has been written a little bit of a blank check b/c of the Holocaust. That is, they're given leeway to undertake military actions that would be roundly condemned if done by other countries because of the historical record, and the sense that they have to protect themselves at all costs.

Personally, the world is in relativly safe hands if the US in charge.

Kind of depends on who's in charge of the US

[theDEEPdish]

I smoke a lot of pot with these 2 sisters who are JWs

[mrhappy333]

I smoke a lot of pot with these 2 sisters who are JWs

hmmm. They must be younger, because they must still be trying to please their parents/or are being forced to go to the Kingdom Hall. Or maybe their new to the Hall, and are just studying right now?

[Jethro87]

These boards are either filled with athiests or the theists don't wanna talk. I wouldn't say that ppl who don't believe in evolution are stupid. The largely ignorant majority knows surprisingly little about either subject. Ppl have their own reasons for being a theist or athiest; there is no use slamming them. And btw, the ppl who kill in the name of allah, or any other religion, are not religious ppl, even though they may think they are. They are extremists, probably brought up made to believe certain things, etc, etc. Christians, muslims, etc, etc, are all religions built on peace. It's extremists that give religion a bad name.

[spoonitnow]

These boards are either filled with athiests or the theists don't wanna talk. I wouldn't say that ppl who don't believe in evolution are stupid. The largely ignorant majority knows surprisingly little about either subject. Ppl have their own reasons for being a theist or athiest; there is no use slamming them. And btw, the ppl who kill in the name of allah, or any other religion, are not religious ppl, even though they may think they are. They are extremists, probably brought up made to believe certain things, etc, etc. Christians, muslims, etc, etc, are all religions built on peace. It's extremists that give religion a bad name.

There's no believing or not believing in evolution. Evolution is fact, just like saying the sky is blue. There is no denying that.

People have killed in the name of their gods for thousands of years. That doesn't make them any less religious than people who don't kill in the name of their gods.

I'll agree extremists give religions (and lots of things for that matter) a bad name.

[Lukie]

Everyone,

I want to give you a little advice. Make sure you pick the right god(s) to worship. If you don't, your soul will be damned to a fiery hell for all of eternity.

Sincerely,

Lukie

[IowaSkinsFan]

I'm an Anti Semetic Jewish Boy.

[spoonitnow]

Everyone,

I want to give you a little advice. Make sure you pick the right god(s) to worship. If you don't, your soul will be damned to a fiery hell for all of eternity.

Sincerely,

Lukie

lollerskates, but so true

[boost]

I remember this one girl taht was a JW, she was in the same class with me in like 2nd grade or some shit. I remember she would always tell on me when I would cuss. I remember I was cussing on the school bus on the way home, and she was on the same bus with me, and then she told the teacher the next day. I was there when she told and got all mad and said, "thats why you dont get candy for holloween and santa doesnt love you!" The funny thing is if I wasnt a dumb little kid I coulda just denied the shit outta her accusations, and I wouldnt have gotten into any trouble. Needless to say I did get in a buncha trouble for saying what I said about her being a JW.

As far as israel goes, I think they shoulda just been given a piece of germany. And if they didnt like that because its not the 'promise land' then they could fuck off.

[midas06]

"So who followed the right religion?"

"Mormons"

[boost]

I remember when the bulls were playing the jazz (utah) for the championship (or mabye it was jsut the finals?) and dennis rodman publicly insulted all mormons, hahah that was so fucking funny.

[Greedo017]

people tend to lump people who believe in creation with those who also don't believe in evolution because this is what most religion teaches, and therefore the majority of people who believe in creation don't believe in evolution. If you believe a god created everything, it follows you probably were taught this by a religion, and therefore that you probably were also taught by that religion that evolution is false. I think it is perfectly fine to believe in creation and evolution, I just find it odd, that you'd go along with religion in one aspect but deny it in another, seemingly arbitrary distinction imo.

[theDEEPdish]

Living in utah sucks because of all the fucking mormons

[Pelion]

All i will say about israel is that Hitler exterminated Jews during the war, a great atrocity. However, i wake up every day and see palestinians and others being blown up by israeli military action. Who was worse, Hitler comitting atrocities or the israeli state commiting war crimes against other peoples of the middle east.
Under law their should be no distinction and i feel their isnt, israel is as guilty as the nazi state for atrocities. Yet i see no israelis in a court of law up for war crimes do you? In fact i find it even worse that their experiences of the halucaust are being semi-replicated on other peoples. I could talk and argue all day, but that makes israel no better than the nazis IMO.
That will be controversial i know, but thats all i see every day.

I totally agree with what you are saying here and if this is all you ment by anti-semitic then I agree with you... but I think you are misunderstanding the term in that case.

Anti-semitic means you "discriminates against or are hostile toward or prejudiced against Jews". Hating some specific person/ government for its treatment of palestinians is certainly justified.
Hating an entire people because some of them have persecuted others is not justified.

[Renton]

I think God put religious fanatics here to test my faith.

I guess I failed the test, because I am a stone cold agnostic. Yes, thats right. An atheist without balls.

[ItDepends]

I'm taking bets that this thread ends in a LOCK.

I'll give you good odds. PM for details.

YES -600
No +300

[mrhappy333]

I'm taking bets that this thread ends in a LOCK.

I'll give you good odds. PM for details.

YES -600
No +300

I hope not..This thread isn't to Flame people, or put people down.It's to discuss different beliefs and such.
When I was growing up, I was forced to believe the Jehovah witness way. Untill I was 16 and ran away. Now I'm 35 and have my own 3 kids. I don't really know what to believe. It's not the Jehovahs witness way. And I never want to raise my kids forcing them to believe in some occult.
Thats what this is all about..I'm trying to get some answers from different people, without having to visit the church,clergy,jehovahs,muslims,buddists,mormans,pa lestines,jews..
I figured there was probly one of each of those on here and could have a decent discussion.

[ItDepends]

I'm taking bets that this thread ends in a LOCK.

I'll give you good odds. PM for details.

YES -600
No +300

I hope not..This thread isn't to Flame people, or put people down.It's to discuss different beliefs and such.
When I was growing up, I was forced to believe the Jehovah witness way. Untill I was 16 and ran away. Now I'm 35 and have my own 3 kids. I don't really know what to believe. It's not the Jehovahs witness way. And I never want to raise my kids forcing them to believe in some occult.
Thats what this is all about..I'm trying to get some answers from different people, without having to visit the church,clergy,jehovahs,muslims,buddists,mormans,pa lestines,jews..
I figured there was probly one of each of those on here and could have a decent discussion.

political and religious debates in neutral forum like this rarely end well, that is all I'm saying. I'm not even going to read the thread.

[spoonitnow]

people tend to lump people who believe in creation with those who also don't believe in evolution because this is what most religion teaches, and therefore the majority of people who believe in creation don't believe in evolution. If you believe a god created everything, it follows you probably were taught this by a religion, and therefore that you probably were also taught by that religion that evolution is false. I think it is perfectly fine to believe in creation and evolution, I just find it odd, that you'd go along with religion in one aspect but deny it in another, seemingly arbitrary distinction imo.

I hate that how in some peoples minds creation and evolution are polar opposites or whatever. Like you said, it generally falls out of people believing in creation via religion and thinking evolution is a conflicting idea, thus denying it.

I live in one of the most conservative non-mountain counties in North Carolina. When I was in high school Biology (just 6 years ago) and we discussed the ideas of natural selection and evolution, there were a lot of people "offended" that evolution was being taught. Parents called the school with complaints and shit like that.

Our instructor was a pretty practical guy, but he was understandably aggravated about the situation. The next time we had class, he started the discussion by asking why there wasn't a cure for the common cold? One of the kids whose parents had actually called with complaints answered that it was because the cold was always changing.

It was pretty easy to go from the student's own words to proving that evolution exists, and in the process a lot of the students lost a lot of misconceptions about what evolution was. It's funny because he had introduced natural selection and evolution in a very similar manner the first day of the discussion, but because it was "evolution" the kids pitched a fit and complained the whole time instead of actually listening.

He ended that day's class with explaining how the ideas of creation and evolution don't really conflict at all, which wasn't taken quite as well, but a lot of the kids understood their misconceptions and got a lot out of the discussion.

That was a bit long-winded, but I thought I'd share.

[spoonitnow]

I'm taking bets that this thread ends in a LOCK.

I'll give you good odds. PM for details.

YES -600
No +300

I hope not..This thread isn't to Flame people, or put people down.It's to discuss different beliefs and such.
When I was growing up, I was forced to believe the Jehovah witness way. Untill I was 16 and ran away. Now I'm 35 and have my own 3 kids. I don't really know what to believe. It's not the Jehovahs witness way. And I never want to raise my kids forcing them to believe in some occult.
Thats what this is all about..I'm trying to get some answers from different people, without having to visit the church,clergy,jehovahs,muslims,buddists,mormans,pa lestines,jews..
I figured there was probly one of each of those on here and could have a decent discussion.

political and religious debates in neutral forum like this rarely end well, that is all I'm saying. I'm not even going to read the thread.

I hope that this isn't your only reason for not reading the thread.

[mrhappy333]

GOOD POINT, WHICH REMINDS ME OF A STORY, I pitched the idea of a watch that was not put together in a plastic bag, would never become a watch.not in a million years..my friend pointed out, that true the watch would never become a watch, but it would certainly rust. which I agreed. and at that time he pointed out, that it had evolved into something else.....I said hmmmmmmmmm.

[martindcx1e]

yes, it's a fact that evolution exists, but not to the point of man evolving from apes or that a single-celled organism eventually became mankind. you cannot argue with a fact. modern evolution, the one taught in schools, is a theory that attempts to explain the fact of evolution.

[spoonitnow]

GOOD POINT, WHICH REMINDS ME OF A STORY, I pitched the idea of a watch that was not put together in a plastic bag, would never become a watch.not in a million years..my friend pointed out, that true the watch would never become a watch, but it would certainly rust. which I agreed. and at that time he pointed out, that it had evolved into something else.....I said hmmmmmmmmm.

That's not evolution...

[boost]

yes, it's a fact that evolution exists, but not to the point of man evolving from apes or that a single-celled organism eventually became mankind. you cannot argue with a fact. modern evolution, the one taught in schools, is a theory that attempts to explain the fact of evolution.

no one in thier right mind claims it to be a stone cold fact. But it is a thoery soundly based in fact.

I think a big secondary reason that people have so much troulbe accepting evolution, and specifically the evolution of mankind is because they have trouble visualizing something as intangable as millions and billions of years. Also most people do not wish to believe that we pretty much just hit the lottery interms of existing. The chance that everything need to support carbon based life would come together in the right way at the right time is very very small. When things are not common or in this case very very very uncommon people always want to attribute it to some mystical greater power.

Along those linse I also think that people hwo say "well then waht started the big bang? even if it did exist it must have been some greater power", just lack the ability to grasp things that are on increadibly large scales, or mildly abstract in any sense. For example, in my eyes its just as possible that a greater being started the big bang as it is that nothing started it at all, because its a cycle and is forever happening. It could jsut be infinite. The problem is, for some reason, people have a horribly hard time conceptualizing something that does not follow our preconcieved understanding of time and space. Things only look the way they do because thats how our brains process the input from our eyes. Whos to say time is any different?

Also there are fairly solid theories dealing with the pre-bigbang happenings, they mostly stem from string theory or I guess are a part of it.

[Pelion]

people who say "well then waht started the big bang? even if it did exist it must have been some greater power", just lack the ability to grasp things that are on increadibly large scales, or mildly abstract in any sense.

God is a pretty large and abstract idea.

[Greedo017]

people who say "well then waht started the big bang? even if it did exist it must have been some greater power", just lack the ability to grasp things that are on increadibly large scales, or mildly abstract in any sense.

God is a pretty large and abstract idea.

it is to me, i don't think it is to the majority of people who firmly believe in him though. he's just an all powerful guy in the sky, amitrite? the church pretty much has him defined as much as is possible.

[boost]

people who say "well then waht started the big bang? even if it did exist it must have been some greater power", just lack the ability to grasp things that are on increadibly large scales, or mildly abstract in any sense.

God is a pretty large and abstract idea.

it is to me, i don't think it is to the majority of people who firmly believe in him though. he's just an all powerful guy in the sky, amitrite? the church pretty much has him defined as much as is possible.

I agree with what greedo said. And to add to that, god has been the 'abstract' explanation for whatever we dont understand for soooo long, so the dogma is pumped into people from birth. Science does not carry this problem. Sure tehre are disputes in science, and sure when someone spends thier life on a theory then they are proven wrong they dont want to believe that they are wrong. However Religion is static, its not allowed to change. It obviously does change, but at such a slow rate. Science is flexible, its dynamic, abstract ideas in science are not excepted because they have been perpetuated for eons, they are accepted because they are solidly based in fact.

I guess the distinction I was trying to make is that people easily except abstract dogma, because they were born and raised on it, yet they reject abstract theories based in fact because they are new to them, and possibly frightening(?).

[arkana]

I dont find it odd at all to be religous and still agree with big bang + evolution. Where did the infinite amount of energy required to set off the big bang come from?

[Greedo017]

who says it was "set off"? what if it just always was?

i will admit arkana, you seem like you probably have very reasonable beliefs/rationale.

[midas06]

My high school chaplain had a BSc.

[LeFou]

Creation + Evolution?

FYP?

[samsonite2100]

who says it was "set off"? what if it just always was?

[pgil]

I think that one of the big reasons that christians (jewish people also, but I hear less about jewish intelligent design theorists and such than I do about christians who try to show that evolution is false) tend to be against evolution is that the theory of evolution is completely incompatible with the biblical story of creation. and if one part of the holy book is proven to be false, then how can you believe any of it.

Unless you take the story of creation to be not literally true, but then the same goes for the rest of the bible. it can all be seen as not literally true. but that leaves off in a potentailly scary place for the religious minded person.

[arkana]

I think that one of the big reasons that christians (jewish people also, but I hear less about jewish intelligent design theorists and such than I do about christians who try to show that evolution is false) tend to be against evolution is that the theory of evolution is completely incompatible with the biblical story of creation. and if one part of the holy book is proven to be false, then how can you believe any of it.

Unless you take the story of creation to be not literally true, but then the same goes for the rest of the bible. it can all be seen as not literally true. but that leaves off in a potentailly scary place for the religious minded person.

The bible shouldnt be interpreted literally, it was inspired by God but written by people - if God really wanted to be technical and document how everything was created im sure no one would be able to understand it. Think of it as a timeless story that conveys ideas and not facts.

[Rondavu]

Religion is weak minded. I can't elaborate, because it would be a book. My mother is a JW, and so are my aunt and grandmother.

I tried to bang a JW girl in highschool to no avail. Last I heard she was living a full blown strict JW lifestyle complete with semi-arranged marriage, sex only for procreation, and zero sense of humor. Way to go idiot.

The bible is a good book, because it teaches you a lot of good ideas about being an outstanding human being. I think it's wrong for an athiest or agnostic to dismiss the bible.

[pgil]

my understanding was that the reason we can believe the bible as still conveying the message of god (even though it has been written and translated by man) is that god makes sure that his book contains his words.

as for the bible not being literal... this leaves everything wide open for interpretation. perhaps the very idea of god as conveyed thru the bible is not to be taken literally. perhaps the idea of god is actually just a tool used to attempt to explain the seemingly unexplainable, or to help those in charge (ie religious and political leaders) control those that are subjected via appeals to a higher authority than themselves. meaning that 'god' as an entity does not exist.

[pgil]

The bible is a good book, because it teaches you a lot of good ideas about being an outstanding human being. I think it's wrong for an athiest or agnostic to dismiss the bible.

it also teaches you that whatever you do, as long as you say you're sorry, its all good. and that is a horrible lesson.

take the story of David for instance. He sees this hot woman, and wants to bang her, but she's married. so, he sends her husband off to war and makes sure that he is in the front lines, then has his generals pull back leaving him exposed where he dies. then David gets with her. afterwards he says "oops, was that wrong, im sorry, I wrote a song about it and how very wrong i was." "its all good baby. as long as you are sorry."

[arkana]

It cant be proven either way so there is no sense arguing about it, however religous people who dont question their beliefs and atheists who can't entertain the possibility of a god are closed minded. Humans have twisted and used religion to gain power and in doing so have given religion a very bad image and thats why I can understand why a lot of people are saying you must be stupid if you believe. Often when i see what religious people do\believe I feel the same. However if you can sift through all the layers of bullshit humans have added over the years I think you can find some truth.

[Miffed22001]

the bible in no way suggests slavery is wrong, in fact, it pretty much describes that some people may have to do others bidding. This is a book that teaches?!
Care to comment boost?

I have been surrounded by semi-religious members of my family all of my life and have unfortunalty had the 'privilidge' to study parts of the bible as literature. One of the reasons i reject the teachings of religion is that i believe in the ability of one to create ones own future, my destiny is not fixed, there is not a greater being who demands my praise/attention but gives me nothing back.

If god gave me a reason to believe i would, but he shows me nothing. And please dont patronise me by saying that God is all around me because he is not, science explains the world that is around me more competantly than anything i have ever seen from god.
Where is God, what does God do, in reality that would ever make me even believe?
That is why i am an aethiest because i looked and listened and studied like any person might if they had the interest and i never found anything.
Sometimes i feel i am truly on the edge of believing, yet i am never shown the path or anything from God, i simply wonder aimless.
I often think thsiis because i dont need leading in life, im one of those people, like otehrs in here, who are strong enough to get on with watever it is that life brings along, i do not need a guiding force to make me livemy life, whereas i understand others do. They need a meaning in their lives that doesnt just stem from the fact that we are a miricle of science. So do as you want, your a freak.
People need meaning and thsi is what God and religion creates, thats why io dont believe, i dont need a guide in my life i know what i want to achieve.
People who are aethiests often dont believe because they have no need, whereas those who do often have a reason.

Ever noticed how elderly people often become religious converts? Becasue they have a reason: death is a scary, uncomprehensible thing.

[Miffed22001]

i wish i had the time to write down what i thought properly because im one of those people who would either be a totally and utterly devoted christian/muslim/buddhist or wateva or a totally commited aethiest which i am.

[alias2211]

my existence improved dramatically when i stopped seeking an absolute explanation for life.

[bigred]

my existence improved dramatically when i stopped seeking an absolute explanation for life.

Meaning you pursued alcohol?

[arkana]

the bible in no way suggests slavery is wrong, in fact, it pretty much describes that some people may have to do others bidding. This is a book that teaches?!
Care to comment boost?

I have been surrounded by semi-religious members of my family all of my life and have unfortunalty had the 'privilidge' to study parts of the bible as literature. One of the reasons i reject the teachings of religion is that i believe in the ability of one to create ones own future, my destiny is not fixed, there is not a greater being who demands my praise/attention but gives me nothing back.

If god gave me a reason to believe i would, but he shows me nothing. And please dont patronise me by saying that God is all around me because he is not, science explains the world that is around me more competantly than anything i have ever seen from god.
Where is God, what does God do, in reality that would ever make me even believe?
That is why i am an aethiest because i looked and listened and studied like any person might if they had the interest and i never found anything.
Sometimes i feel i am truly on the edge of believing, yet i am never shown the path or anything from God, i simply wonder aimless.
I often think thsiis because i dont need leading in life, im one of those people, like otehrs in here, who are strong enough to get on with watever it is that life brings along, i do not need a guiding force to make me livemy life, whereas i understand others do. They need a meaning in their lives that doesnt just stem from the fact that we are a miricle of science. So do as you want, your a freak.
People need meaning and thsi is what God and religion creates, thats why io dont believe, i dont need a guide in my life i know what i want to achieve.
People who are aethiests often dont believe because they have no need, whereas those who do often have a reason.

Ever noticed how elderly people often become religious converts? Becasue they have a reason: death is a scary, uncomprehensible thing.

I agree with a lot of the things you said, however i have a problem with the bolded part. I dont see why the fact that science can explain some of the rules and processes in this world around us means no one created it.

Let me make a terrible analogy: If I came into an empty room and saw a lot of cans paint lying around and there is also a beautiful abstract painting (no recognisable objects) on a canvas on the floor in the middle of the room then I would find it hard to believe that the painting was randomly created by say a wind that knocked over the paint cans even though its statistically possible (like a monkey typing the collected works of Shakespeare randomly). Basically what Im trying to say is that I just cant believe that this world is a random outcome, there is just too much beauty and organised chaos. There are lots of things that happened to make this world possible that was statistically very very unlikely.

[Toe]

I dont believe in royal flushes because they are statistically very very unlikely.

[bigred]

I dont believe in royal flushes because they are statistically very very unlikely.

My royal flush can beat up your royal flush. My royal flush also hates gays and abortions.

[Miffed22001]

I agree with a lot of the things you said, however i have a problem with the bolded part. I dont see why the fact that science can explain some of the rules and processes in this world around us means no one created it.

Let me make a terrible analogy: If I came into an empty room and saw a lot of cans paint lying around and there is also a beautiful abstract painting (no recognisable objects) on a canvas on the floor in the middle of the room then I would find it hard to believe that the painting was randomly created by say a wind that knocked over the paint cans even though its statistically possible (like a monkey typing the collected works of Shakespeare randomly). Basically what Im trying to say is that I just cant believe that this world is a random outcome, there is just too much beauty and organised chaos. There are lots of things that happened to make this world possible that was statistically very very unlikely.

And this is where the believer and the non-believer must agree to disagree. You think this cannot be random (i assume, and i respect this if you or anyone else does) whereas i can accept that this is possibly random.
Ofc, in my own personal experience, im not totally unwilling to believe that this isnt just random... but that is my personal experience, not most people who are unbelievers/aethiests etc.