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  1. #1
    bigred's Avatar
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    Default Laptop for Backpacking

    Hey dudes,

    I posted about this once before but my wife and I are going on a backpacking trip across Asia and possibly Africa, budget permitting. I need to buy a laptop for this. I'll use it mainly for internetting and movies but would love if I could play some of the low-graphic games like Fez or FTL. No expectation on anything high powered like Crysis.

    My budget would preferably be under $1000 (I know, tight) and from my research it should be 3 pounds or less to lighten the load in my backpack. I'm eyeing refurbished Macbook Airs but I've never used a mac before and I'm not sure how well they work with Steam games and such.

    Thoughts?
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  2. #2
    I think something like this would be good: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834315423

    I'd suggest upping your 3lb limit to 5lbs. Anything less than 3lbs will likely have a lol integrated graphics card
  3. #3
    oskar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanglow View Post
    I think something like this would be good: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834315423

    I'd suggest upping your 3lb limit to 5lbs. Anything less than 3lbs will likely have a lol integrated graphics card
    wow, spec-wise this looks like a very good deal. aspires are also not awful when it comes to serviceability. A macbook air with worse performance, no serviceability to speak of and more weight will run you over $1000. Forget about used ones. This looks like a decent choice because 1: things break, and this one can be repaired and 2: you can buy 2 of those for the price of one (shitty) macbook air.
    Last edited by oskar; 07-13-2016 at 01:39 AM.
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  4. #4
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    I did most of my backpacking in the backwoods of the US, so I'm not sure how much civilization you anticipate.

    Battery life is going to be an issue, it's just a matter of how often. A single battery might not even last through the flights there and back. Unfortunately, batteries are heavy. (Also, though you probably know, make sure you have the electrical outlet adapters that you need.)

    ***
    I've been working with my Mac machine at my job for almost a year and I almost don't notice how frustrating it is to use anymore.

    I absolutely grant that a significant portion of my frustration is due to "old dog / new tricks" issues.

    There's really no reason that the ctrl-key should be in the corner of the keyboard (like Windows has), but my constant forgetting to use copy/paste with the cmnd key (which,on a Mac, is next to the space bar where the Alt key should be) is just annoying.

    There's a ton of little things like this in switching from a Windows to a Mac OS machine. If you're not familiar with Mac OS, I'd think that using a Mac for the first time while on a vacation is just adding extra, unnecessary stress.
  5. #5
    Not hijacking (yes hijacking). Imma buy a new lappy soon. I'm thinking manufacturer refurbished. They look like you get such a better deal than otherwise. Good idea, bad idea, mediocre idea, angelic idea, worst idea ever?
  6. #6
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    I think it's ok to buy straight up used, especially since I'm not aware of any recent laptops that I could really recommend. If size isn't the biggest factor, look for lenovo t530 or w530 it's one of the last well built lenovos. Whatever you get: bulky means better cooling, which means less thermal throttling, longer life, and less maintenance. And spend the extra money on an ssd.
    Last edited by oskar; 07-14-2016 at 03:09 PM.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Not hijacking (yes hijacking). Imma buy a new lappy soon. I'm thinking manufacturer refurbished. They look like you get such a better deal than otherwise. Good idea, bad idea, mediocre idea, angelic idea, worst idea ever?
    I know two people who have done this both have had a complete pain in the ass with them breaking, taking ages to replace, poor customer service.

    Anecdotal evidence though obvs.
  8. #8
    Do you know if they were manufacturer refurbished or just refurbished?
  9. #9
    oskar's Avatar
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    You should always repair yourself. A screwdriver and an hour of your time is all you need to replace any part of a laptop. They're just small PC's. Nothing special.

    What are you looking to spend and what is it for?
    Last edited by oskar; 07-14-2016 at 02:24 PM.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Do you know if they were manufacturer refurbished or just refurbished?
    I know one was definitely from the manufacturer & he's had nothing but issues with it. The laptop brand doesn't come to mind but it wasn't one of the more well known ones & it was ridiculously cheap. I imagine the bigger names are much better when things do go wrong.
  11. #11
    I'm not really a self-repair guy. I tend to do things wrong before I do them right. I'm looking to spend no more than $400 and will use Excel and R, maybe Matlab, maybe some others.

    My current laptop has a shitty connection somewhere inside it, so I can't move it around that much without the screen going out. It's not worth it to take it to the shop, and I spent a decent amount of time looking things up to see if I could self-repair, but it's looking like I may not be able to figure it out.
  12. #12
    oskar's Avatar
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    Get a used Lenovo T530 with a docking station and you'll be happy. You can go as low as a T430 (not the T430s, just T430) and it should be fine for you.
    Your problem is most likely a loose or broken screen cable (probably broken). You can get those on ebay with free shipping for some money. That's the one thing you have to completely take the laptop apart for. If you do that once you know everything there is to know about laptop repair.
    Last edited by oskar; 07-14-2016 at 02:53 PM.
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  13. #13
    Thanks I'll take a look at those.
  14. #14
    If they aren't expensive to buy and you're going to get a new laptop anyway is it not worth trying to fix it just for the experience & if you cock up there's no real worry. Then you can always sell it / give it to a friend or relative.
  15. #15
    That's a good idea.
  16. #16
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Fixing a computer is no harder than changing a tire.

    You take out the bolts/screws holding the broken bit. You replace the broken bit with a mostly identical, except not broken bit. You put the bolts/screws back where you found them in the first place. Voila!

    If you're nervous about this, just take pictures as you go. Before you remove any piece, take a picture of the computer. Then when you go to reassemble it all, you have a picture showing you what it should look like when you've done it right.


    Laptops sometimes hide the screws on the outside of the case and it can be hard to figure out how to open the machine in the first place. Thankfully, google has you covered.
  17. #17
    bigred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    I did most of my backpacking in the backwoods of the US, so I'm not sure how much civilization you anticipate.

    Battery life is going to be an issue, it's just a matter of how often. A single battery might not even last through the flights there and back. Unfortunately, batteries are heavy. (Also, though you probably know, make sure you have the electrical outlet adapters that you need.)

    ***
    I've been working with my Mac machine at my job for almost a year and I almost don't notice how frustrating it is to use anymore.

    I absolutely grant that a significant portion of my frustration is due to "old dog / new tricks" issues.

    There's really no reason that the ctrl-key should be in the corner of the keyboard (like Windows has), but my constant forgetting to use copy/paste with the cmnd key (which,on a Mac, is next to the space bar where the Alt key should be) is just annoying.

    There's a ton of little things like this in switching from a Windows to a Mac OS machine. If you're not familiar with Mac OS, I'd think that using a Mac for the first time while on a vacation is just adding extra, unnecessary stress.
    My backpacking will mostly be from city/town to next city/town on trains, planes, and automobiles in 2-3 week bursts. Battery life isn't as much a concern given that I will typically use it when I have internet connection such as cafes, hotels, hostels, airbnbs, etc.
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  18. #18
    bigred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanglow View Post
    I think something like this would be good: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834315423

    I'd suggest upping your 3lb limit to 5lbs. Anything less than 3lbs will likely have a lol integrated graphics card
    The specs look nice but the review sure doesn't.
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  19. #19
    bigred's Avatar
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    I'm starting to question whether I really need something for gaming. The point of my trip is to see the world. I just haven't gone that long without playing some kind of game. I will have my iPhone and Ipad with me but not really the same. I wanted to be able to pull up Fez, Limbo, FTL, or some kind of new platformed with low graphics. Could an on-board graphics chip handle something like that?
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  20. #20
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    Yes, definitely. Integrated graphics have gotten quite good. Anything 2d and mild 3d should be fine... however even some programs like photoshop and video editors can make use of the gpu for filters and stuff. I believe even the windows aero UI can use the gpu to render. Linux definitely does this. it's always nice to have a dedicated gpu.

    The reviewer has no idea what he's talking about. Modern cpu's downclock when idle. This doesn't show in the task manager. This is also a source of confusion with people who think their browser is causing 50% cpu loads... well, yes it is, on a cpu that's running way below boost clock because it doesn't need to run at full multiplier. Some laptops come pre-loaded with crapware like Norton, McAffee and other shit, but almost every brand does that. You just uninstall all of that and you're fine.
    The system interrupt process is something you simply don't need to worry about. People like this guy are the reason tech companies try to hide as much information as possible from the user.
    Last edited by oskar; 07-16-2016 at 06:04 PM.
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  21. #21
    oskar's Avatar
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    I just want to say again: I have not seen a laptop in the last couple of years that I consider well built, but the previous generation is either too bulky for backpacking, or too underpowered to be fun to use. This acer is most certainly terrible build quality, but the price is ridiculously low for the specs you get.
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  22. #22
    Could you explain to me what distinctions you're making between specs and build quality? I'm mostly ignorant on all things computer hardware, so to me specs kinda sorta is build quality. Obviously that's wrong. When I look for a new computer, really all I'm doing is comparing specs with price and then evaluating the reviews and if there are common themes or red flags.
  23. #23
    oskar's Avatar
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    Acer, HP, Mac, Dell... they don't make the parts, they just assemble them. Intel, AMD, Nvidia make the chips and then the other guys just glue them on a board, put a case around it and sell it. Any particular cpu will perform almost identically no matter how shit the parts around it are. An example for exceptional build quality are the T420 and T520 (with the T430, T530 being slightly shittier in build quality, but better in specs) unfortunately they start to show their age. They have a standardized docking connector that lets you dock it and it will immediately switch to dual screen and whatever is connected to the docking station. The keyboards are the best that were ever put in laptops, they have drain holes in the bottom so when you spill liquid, it will drain out the bottom instead of getting to the motherboard, and replacing the keyboard is a matter of removing one screw and sliding it out. The hinges are fixed in a way that they will not break by normal use, compared to some modern ultrabooks where the hinges will definitely break under normal use and it's just a matter of time. Every part you want to exchange has a separate compartment: hard drive: one screw, ram: one screw, cd drive: one screw. Most modern laptops you have to almost break open to change anything... that's not the end of the world if you're fine with it being a throwaway thing with a 2 year lifespan, but it's not good build quality.


    Last edited by oskar; 07-16-2016 at 06:58 PM.
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  24. #24
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    At this point I might as well mention thermal throttling. When a cpu or gpu reaches it's thermal limit, the first resort is to turn the fans up, if that doesn't keep it cool, it will reduce the multiplier, if that doesn't work it will shut off. Macbooks and ultrabooks are notorious for this. You get 100% performance for 30 seconds and then it will downclock because the heatsink cannot keep up with the heat output. So I lied about performance, however you will get this with every ultrabook. You can only combat this with size.

    T420 heatsink:
    [img][/img]

    macbook:
    Last edited by oskar; 07-16-2016 at 07:20 PM.
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  25. #25
    bigred's Avatar
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    Think I'm going to go with advice and get something a little heavier. Narrowing it down to these 2:

    http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/in...03059068127705

    http://store.hp.com/us/en/PDPStdView...&storeId=10151

    I'm leaning towards the Dell but curious what others thing. Probably going to try to order in the next few hours.
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  26. #26
    bigred's Avatar
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    Oh and I have a coupon for ~$200 off and free shipping for each one of them if anyone is interested
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  27. #27
    bigred's Avatar
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    HP one is starting to seem a little nicer and possibly worth the extra $$$. Nicer graphics card by far. Will it hurt me that it's an i5? The cache is larger on the I5 than the Dell's i7.
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  28. #28
    oskar's Avatar
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    Take the m.2 ssd option on the HP if it's in your budget. It's worth.
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  29. #29
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    i7's have hyper threading. i5's do not. Whether you need it or even notice it is very situational.
    If you're not doing lots of video editing, any type of rendering tasks, compression/decompression, compiling, then just go with the i5.
    Last edited by oskar; 07-24-2016 at 07:53 AM.
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  30. #30
    Absolutely get an SSD. I've saved months of my life not waiting for my pc to boot up.
  31. #31
    bigred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    i7's have hyper threading. i5's do not. Whether you need it or even notice it is very situational.
    If you're not doing lots of video editing, any type of rendering tasks, compression/decompression, compiling, then just go with the i5.
    I will be doing some video editing on the trip (bringing a go-pro and other stuff) but I'm not sure I would still need hyper threading.
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  32. #32
    second the m.2 ssd if its available. got one on puter i built in january and boots up in no time at all
  33. #33
    bigred's Avatar
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    This could be an option:https://www.amazon.com/Acer-Aspire-N...=logicemail-20

    I want the HP with the SSD but with customization it gets up to $980. Someone give me their money
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  34. #34
    oskar's Avatar
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    The one that Deanglow posted is the same model with a better graphics card and a smaller ssd + HDD. I think it's the better value.

    idk how you get to $980 on the hp. with m.2 ssd and everything else left alone I get $660.
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  35. #35
    bigred's Avatar
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    I upped the processor and memory ^_^
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  36. #36
    bigred's Avatar
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    Oh and I chose the TB SATA with the SSD. 256 SSD seems sketchy on its own. Although we will have an external drive
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  37. #37
    Play games when you settle back down.

    If you can get away with just the tablet and smartphone, do that. Minimalism is your friend here.
  38. #38
    dont forget to bring a solar charger if you plan to go backpacking.
    something like this
    497750331_566.jpg
  39. #39
    I just attempted to use a Mac because it has photoshop and my Windows box doesn't. I think I have a migraine.




    (to be fair, I think it's mostly because I simply am accustomed to Windows and pretty much never use a Mac, and on top of that this particular Mac has a one button mouse with no scroll wheel, which is just lol.)
  40. #40
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    I just attempted to use a Mac because it has photoshop and my Windows box doesn't. I think I have a migraine.

    (to be fair, I think it's mostly because I simply am accustomed to Windows and pretty much never use a Mac, and on top of that this particular Mac has a one button mouse with no scroll wheel, which is just lol.)
    Yeah.
  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamerlife View Post
    dont forget to bring a solar charger if you plan to go backpacking.
    Not a bad idea, but it won't power a laptop.
    Although it would power just a phablet or both phone and netbook(if a keyboard is necessary).

    For backpacking I would think the considerations would be:
    - number of devices,
    - size
    - weight
    - TDP, for battery life, (and low voltage for solar charging).
  42. #42
    bigred's Avatar
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    I ended up finding a few codes and an Ebates cashback that saved a ton on the HP. Looks like a nice graphics card, I will have!
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  43. #43
    Why would I want a dual core instead of single core?
  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Why would I want a dual core instead of single core?
    It means you'll have 2 processors instead of 1 in your CPU.

    For old or small programs, this wont make a difference. They aren't written to divide their processes between 2 processors, so they will only use the 1, which means the extra one is just sitting there.

    However, nowadays all* major software is coded for multi-threading. Multi-threading is exactly that ability to thread their processes through multiple processors. This means that they could run up to twice as fast. Most programs don't run twice as fast, due to uneven splitting of the load between the 2 processors, but the 2x speed is a fine approx.


    *IDK of any that don't, I'm not trying to draw a line on what counts as major.
  45. #45
    Interesting. From what I recently read, claims were that most software (except perhaps really intensive stuff) are written for single processor use.

    I guess what I'm getting at is something like this question: does a dual processor make it less likely that a computer lags (you know, because every computer finds ways to lag)? Or is it more cost-effective to just get a more powerful single processor?
  46. #46
    Maybe more specific: I don't render heavily nor game heavily. Should I filter out dual and quad core processors when searching for a new lappy?
  47. #47
    Granted, I'm not terribly sure what rendering heavily means. Like, if I'm extracting some big movie file, will my computer almost assuredly slow if it's single core but not if it's dual core?
  48. #48
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    What's your OS?

    Windows can use multithreading.
    OSX can use multithreading.

    ***
    Is the price really the same to get, say, a dual core 1 GHz as a single core 2 GHz?
    'Cause as far as I know, you'd always want to go with the 2 GHz if that's the case.

    ***
    You want a graphics card, no matter what. It's just a matter of how good a graphics card.
    It's like your bed. You're gonna spend 1/4 to 1/3 of your life on that thing. It's not a home furnishing to scrimp money on.
    You're gonna stare at that monitor for hours on end. Even a tiny improvement is significant over such amount of use.

    AND, if you're considering getting a dual core processor, then a GPU is really a no brainer. It's a dedicated core to run the monitor, which you are always using if you're using the computer at all.
  49. #49
    windows. i dont do intense graphics. sounds like i have my answer in going 2gha single over dual 1 ghz.
  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Interesting. From what I recently read, claims were that most software (except perhaps really intensive stuff) are written for single processor use.

    I guess what I'm getting at is something like this question: does a dual processor make it less likely that a computer lags (you know, because every computer finds ways to lag)? Or is it more cost-effective to just get a more powerful single processor?
    Even if that is true, How many programs do you have running at the same time?
    - Operating System, doing multiple things.
    - Single Process running One Poker Room.
    - Single Process running Another Poker Room.
    - Browser Window showing FTR
    - Browser window or tab with some other personal interest site
    - Graphics program that you just left open after using it because you could, unlike the old days when you had to exit to load a new program.

    So these days every computer is doing multiple things.
    A 10 ghz processor would get very hot jumping around between all the different processes.
    A quad core 2.5ghz processor would handle the multiple tasks much more effectively.

    btw there is no such thing as a 10ghz processor.
    The AMD-FX-9590 4.7ghz (turbo 5ghz) is the fastest consumer processor I know and has a TDP of 220w and usually has liquid cooling systems. And you wont find it in a Lappy.

    BUT: A low power 1.1ghz quad core lags terribly and is outperformed by a 2ghz dual core.
    Also modern processors include a number of extensions designed to handle specific tasks more efficiently.


    Laptop Rule of thumb 2016: 4 threads at 2.5-3ghz
    memory also makes a difference 6 or 8 gb minimum.

    Gaming Desktops would have 8 threads at 3-4ghz with more memory, special graphics cards and solid state disks.
  51. #51
    oskar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    windows. i dont do intense graphics. sounds like i have my answer in going 2gha single over dual 1 ghz.
    What processor is this? Numbers don't usually go that low.
    Last edited by oskar; 08-26-2016 at 06:09 PM.
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  52. #52
    i meant hypothetically. it's probably meaningless.
  53. #53
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Whether or not you "do intense graphics" is no argument to avoid getting a graphics card. Your computer does graphics for nearly every program you use. Graphics are almost exclusively the single most processor intensive part of a program.

    The money you sink into your graphics card is literally taking the cheap route to letting your CPU handle the things you want it handling, while not handling the graphical stuff, which it is not optimized for anyway. It's the cheapest way to get faster performance out of your CPU so that it is doing less stuff, but focusing on the stuff which you perceive as causing "laggy" moments.

    A GPU is a parallel processor. It's designed to do the same process to many chunks of data.

    A CPU is a serial processor. It's designed to do a different process to each new chunk of data.

    Having a dedicated GPU is nothing like choosing a single or dual core. That's just adding another of a part you already have. The GPU is a different part that does different tasks.
  54. #54
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    ^^

    That very much.
    You'll also see more and more programs actively use the gpu. GPU performance has gone through the roof the past couple of years while cpu's aren't going up in performance at the same pace.

    And I would only recommend dual cores if you know for sure that what you're using it for is not multi core optimized. If you're not sure you'll almost always be happier with a quad.
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  55. #55
    Am I imagining things, or do touchscreen laptops look worse? You know, the screen being less clear or something?
  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Am I imagining things, or do touchscreen laptops look worse? You know, the screen being less clear or something?
    Check the stats sheet on the monitor and look for pixel pitch. That's the distance between 2 adjacent pixels. Lower pixel pitch means sharper images.

    Usually, it's a simple matter of screen resolution and screen size. The cheapest and easiest way to make a larger screen is to space the pixels slightly further apart. For a lappy, I would assume this is the case. Make sure that the model you're looking at didn't skrimp on the monitor, e.g. make sure it's a good resolution for its size. Compare a non-touchscreen that you like to a touchscreen that you don't like and see if that's it.

    If there is something else going on with touchscreens, like blurring of the pixels, so they are not as sharp, then IDK, but it may be product specific.
  57. #57
    interesting. i was hoping to find a >15.6 inch lappy for under 500, but maybe would be better not now. i hadnt considered pixel variation.

    im very novice on tech. i mean, the gpu/cpu stuff you guys discussed seems mostly irrelevant to the choice i'll make. here's how novice i am: im more or less just looking at ghz (bigger#=better), ram (bigger#=better), screen size (hopefully >15.6, but defo not smaller), price (hopefully <400 but that can move up for the right reasons), and user rating/comments.

    i remember the first computer i bought was a quad core. i was like "that means it's four times as fast as a single core right?"
  58. #58
    imma plan to pick this one up tomorrow. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lenovo-3...&skuId=5450865

    i checked it out today. im v happy with the program opening speed. i forgot to check the boot speed. outside of that, as long as it doesn't have any faults that require technical know-how, it does what i want (my needs are v simple: browsing, office, basic software, video watching, not lagging, booting in preferably <1 min). anybody see any reason to not like this product?
  59. #59
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Dude. You ignored my advice where I have actual technical knowledge and went ballistic about something I was only telling you to check out.

    I'm pretty sure my advice is wasted, here.
  60. #60
    i didnt intend to dismiss your advice. thank you for letting me know you feel like i did.

    i dont know what a gpu is and when i try to sort results on product pages regarding gpus i get nothing. i would love to use the information you gave me, but i do not know how.

    regarding your other piece of advice, well, i now realized that all the ones with full hd resolution i looked at also were touchscreen (which is a functionality i dont think i would use), so i forgot to sort based on that. it's possible one of these would work better. i think i like that theyre ssd, i dont really need a whole lot of space but i care about fast boot and fast operation of basic tasks. i dont think i want to go below 15.6 size. but, well, you have me thinking that maybe i shoudl look at some 14 in touch screens with full hd. if it's small enough i could possibly find use of the touchscreen, but if it's too small i suspect videos would be worse.

    https://www.amazon.com/HP-15-ay013nr...n%3A2423841011

    https://www.amazon.com/F556UA-AS54-1...n%3A2423841011
  61. #61
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    Yeah I'd personally pay the $80 extra for the 950m. I believe someone found one with a 940mx or 950m with an m.2 for around 500 in this thread. That's a much better deal. If you can get one with an nvme m.2 for around 500, that's much better. Stay the fuck away from hdd's. Build wise they're all equally shit, so I don't want to make myself liable.

    Again: If you're not going to carry it every day: Used T420, T430, T520, T530 with an ssd is what I would buy instead of this.
    Last edited by oskar; 09-02-2016 at 03:31 AM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  62. #62
    I'm pretty wary of going used. That strikes me as something you should do when you'll readily fix any hardware problems that arise. I have very little experience with that. Am I being unreasonable and do I have nothing to fear going used? Also part of me just wants to go new because doing so is nice. I've allocated more funds than expected, so I don't need to stay <400.

    Why do you say "if you're not going to carry it around daily"? I thought ssds are perfect for that. Or are you referring to the used quality of the product? I will be carrying it around daily. The daily carrying is actually why my current lappy got fucked. Loose wiring or something.
    Last edited by wufwugy; 09-02-2016 at 10:48 AM.
  63. #63
    Is there anything I should know about SSD? Or is the only difference the user needs to be aware of that they have much less space?
  64. #64
    here's the 950m deanglow found: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834315423

    it looks above what i need. im not sure i'll ever be gaming and that's a colossal amount of space i won't use.

    what does m.2 mean? what does nvme mean?

    this is hybrid right? meaning it has ssd and hdd. how does that work?
  65. #65
    oskar's Avatar
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    the only real difference is between nvme and everything else. m.2 I think is always nvme. And no, the ones I listed are significantly less likely to break than any new ones you can buy. But they're about twice as heavy as the ones you're looking at.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  66. #66
    oskar's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what it is. I think it's just a new interface. nvme > sata > IDE. The important part is that it's faster.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  67. #67
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    I looked on newegg for a laptop which fits your specs and has ANY graphics card, and they are just very different builds to what you are looking for, which drives up the price in a bad way. For your price range, it's a moot point.

    EDIT: I'm with deanglow if you can afford that lappy.

    The rest of this post is prob. tl;dr for you, but it's here to peruse for your curiosity.

    ***
    GPU = Graphical Processing Unit. It is the part of your graphics card that does the work. It has it's own RAM, called GDDR# - Graphical Double Data Rate (# = generation, or tech level) - and is listed separately to the GPU speed, just like your "computer's" RAM is listed alongside the processor speed.

    We tend to think of electricity as instantaneous, but keeping everything close together makes a huge difference in computer performance. So you want to have your main RAM right next to the chipset, and you want a separate set of RAM dedicated to feeding the GPU. The RAM on your Graphics card is a big deal - up to the point where it's more than enough. You wont find many cards that have inadequate memory for the GPU to run 1 monitor at optimal settings. However, if you will be using 2 or more monitors, then the extra RAM will be important.

    More important is the tech level of the RAM. If you can afford it, you'll be much happier with GDDR5 than GDDR3. The newer generation is a big improvement in the speed of the RAM, therefore the speed of the GPU.

    Unlike your CPU, which performs one operation on one chunk of data at a time, a GPU performs the same operation on many chunks of data at once. So it has another limiting factor in how many chunks of data it can use at a time. Clearly the speed is also important, but the number of parallel streams (pixel pipelines) of data it can support is a very big deal, here. This is a vital stat to look at when choosing a graphics card.

    That said... you get what you pay for in a graphics card. The cost per quality is very linear from just above the lowest end to just below the highest end cards.

    ***
    I always suggest this rule of thumb: GET A GRAPHICS CARD IN YOUR COMPUTER. If you think you don't need one, then get a really cheap one, but get one. You will never thank me, because everything will be that much more "normal" from day 1. It's a hidden benefit that impacts everything your computer does in a small way, and all those small things add up to constant performance increases.

    If you're buying a low-mid end laptop, then you will be hard pressed to find one with a graphics card, and you're getting what you're getting. It will usually look good; it wont ever look great. The speed will usually feel adequate, but it wont ever feel fast. If you ever want to plug it into a 2nd output, e.g. to give a presentation on a projector, then your resolution will suffer.
    Last edited by MadMojoMonkey; 09-02-2016 at 12:48 PM.
  68. #68
    Hmmm I thought every computer had a graphics card.

    I can afford the 950MX one, but I think that would only be smart if I intended to game in the near future. I'm not sure I do.

    For reference, my current lappy is 2009 Win 7 Intel Pentium CPU 2020M 2.40GHz 4GB RAM. I would quite like an SSD and 1080p, and the RAM and processor improvement over this that I'd like isn't a whole lot. The 950MX looks really overkill. Am I missing something?

    Thank you for the input.
  69. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Hmmm I thought every computer had a graphics card.
    Most laptops have horrible shitty things in them that can't do anything of any real use. I never really understood this until I saw actual graphics cards.

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=gr...E2BBkQ_AUIBygC
  70. #70
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    No. Everything you'd consider a computer in this context can do graphics, but they're running the graphical processing through the CPU, which is not optimized for graphical processes and is not performing other functions while it's spending time on graphics.

    Even if they advertise a "newer optimized onboard graphics" package, it's nothing compared to the optimization of changing the chip's design. You simply can't optimize graphical processes through a CPU in the same way you can optimize them by changing the design of the CPU to that of a GPU. The rest of your processes will suffer if you ONLY have either. You need both.

    ***
    What you're missing is that I have never mentioned gaming once in relation to a graphics card, and yet you can't shake the notion that a graphics card is for gaming. Windows uses heavy graphics. For all the solid colors of the Windows 3.1 days to be lovely shaded transitions we see today takes a lot of graphical processing. Just to have the window frame part of each window is taxing your graphical abilities.

    ***
    Do me a favor: Take your current laptop and go into the Windows settings and set everything to lowest quality, no shading, no animations, set it "Windows Classic" look as far back in the history of Windows looking old school as you can go.

    I can almost guarantee that you are now experiencing a computer that feels every bit as fast as the one you want to buy to replace this machine. All we changed was Windows settings, not anything within the actual programs you want to run in those windows. All we changed in those settings was to stop sending "extra" graphical processes to your CPU, see?

    ***
    Please hear me that graphics card = not only for games.

    As was stated earlier in this thread, graphics aren't the only processes which are better optimized as parallel processes. More and more, other programs are utilizing that GPU for non-graphics tasks which, again, are reducing the load from your CPU and making your computer faster at the things that "feel laggy" sometimes.
  71. #71
    Okay that's great information.

    Am I correct in saying that these both have graphics cards

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834315423
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DT4A2R4..._t1_B01CGGOUJM

    While this one doesn't

    https://www.amazon.com/F556UA-AS54-1...n%3A2423841011
  72. #72
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Yes, that is correct.
  73. #73
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Okay that's great information.
    It sucks that you tend to be the first person who I let get under my skin when I'm feeling fatigued*.
    (or rather, the one I don't auto-check myself from being rude to.... damn I suck!)

    It's nothing I mean to be personal, but ... well ... it clearly is.

    I'm sorry that I was terse earlier. I really do know better, wuf.


    *EDIT: Last week of summer / first week of classes has been a gauntlet. I'm really in need of this 3-day weekend.
  74. #74
    It's all good. You have a good heart and you know your stuff.

    I returned from Best Buy. Apparently all of their >mid range laptops are 2 in 1 lappy/tabby. I couldn't find any reason I would need that. It does not strike me as providing any advantage in reading pdfs or ebooks, and touch games are much better for phones. One question: does the picture quality differ when it's touchscreen? I wanted to compare the look of a 1080p touch to 1080p non-touch at the store, but they didn't have any to compare.

    I start next week. Looking forward to it. All econ classes wooooooooooooooo
  75. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    T520, T530
    I can't find one of these with the specs I hope for: ssd, 1920x1080.

    Question: are there more options than hdd or ssd? I'm confused by your statement that all hdds are equally shit since I thought earlier you were recommending one of those four lenovos with hdd.

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