Let's talk about the impending apocalypse for a bit.

[oskar]

One of my earliest memories is of me standing in the yard in front of the apartment building I grew up in. My neck hurt from looking up at the moon. I couldn't have been older than 8, but I knew that believing in god was a decision you made, and I could make that decision right then and there. For a moment I felt like I had it. You know that feeling you have when you try to think of an actors name, and for a split second you could swear you knew it, but it's already gone. I looked down and went: this is bullshit. I turned around and went inside and that was that.

In 1532 a group of 168 Spanish soldiers managed to capture the Inca emperor Atahuallpa and subsequently defeated his army of 80,000 men. Here's the synopsis:
Spanish conquistador: Hey guys, we'd like to talk to your king because who doesn't enjoy social occasions!
Inca ambassador: Sure thing, we'll carry him right over in his litter accompanied by his entourage of 2000 singers and dancers.
Spanish conquistador: Hey guys, we have captured your king, but we might give him back if you fill this room to the ceiling with the gold stuff we all like so much.
Inca ambassador: Well, dang it... Here ya go.
Spanish conquistador: We are as shocked as you are to inform you that your king has been found guilty of things in our fair trial, but you'll be happy to know that he received a christian burial.
Inca ambassador: Well fiddlesticks!
Spanish conquistador: This is our land now.

When you really boil it down, what made this possible was ink on paper. The Spanish knew a lot of things about conquering because they could read about it. The accumulation of knowledge over centuries made them exponentially more powerful than their opponents. Atahuallpa, when handed a copy of the bible on the first encounter with the Spaniards, having never seen a book did not know what to make of it and angrily threw it to the ground. Irony!

Anyway, so my point is: Knowledge grows exponentially as you pass it down and so does the destructive power that comes with it. This alone wouldn't be a problem if people weren't such idiots and by 2100 there will be 11 billion of us with the majority having their brains tangled up in mystical thinking that makes it impossible for them to face the reality they live in. And finally: Anything that can be done will be done. To accentuate that point, here's a Persian rug with cherub imagery:

[oskar]

Anyway, now that we have established that humanity is doomed and that this planet is scheduled for destruction, we can clearly see that the only way out is up. We are not going to stop overpopulation, we are not going to stop pollution and we are not going to stop Japan from emptying the seas. But still space travel is still so far down on our to-do list as a species that it's barely on anyone's radar.
I already know what you're thinking: But what about incomplete extinction? If humanity manages to whittle itself down enough, won't there be a chance for rebuilding? Maybe, but we're trying to run out a clock when we don't know when it stops.

Let's play a game. It's called Utopia Whack-A-Mole. You give me a scenario where humans survive and I smack it down! LET'S GO PEOPLE!

[MadMojoMonkey]

Let's play a game. It's called Utopia Whack-A-Mole. You give me a scenario where humans survive and I smack it down! LET'S GO PEOPLE!

Sounds like education is the culprit, here.

Can't we just have a war on education?

[OngBonga]

Japan is emptying the seas? I don't think you have a very good understanding of the relative size of Japan and Sea.

Anyway, you remind me of an article, a conversation between an atheist and God on the 8.20 Paddington to Cardiff...

http://www.fullmoon.nu/articles/art.php?id=tal

...the human race is reaching a critical phase. It goes back to what we were saying about the dangers of knowledge. Essentially your species is becoming aware of that danger. When that happens to any sapient species, the future can take three courses.

Many are tempted to avoid the danger by avoiding the knowledge. Like the adaptors, they are doomed to extinction. Often pleasantly enough in the confines of their own planet until either their will to live expires or their primary turns red giant and snuffs them out.

A large number go on blindly acquiring the knowledge and don't learn to restrain their abuse. Their fate is sealed somewhat more quickly of course, when Pandora’s box blows up in their faces.

The only ones who reach level two are those who learn to accept and to live with their most dangerous knowledge. Each and every individual in such a species must eventually become capable of destroying their entire species at any time. Yet they must learn to control themselves to the degree that they can survive even such deadly insight. And frankly, they’re the only ones we really want to see leaving their solar systems. Species that haven’t achieved that maturity could not be allowed to infect the rest of the universe, but fortunately that has never required my intervention. The knowledge always does the trick’

[oskar]

I'm having trouble following that. I haven't slept in a while. Seems at least as coherent as I am right now. I might have overdone this stylistically but its funny to me so I'm ok with that.

[oskar]

Sounds like we found a martyr!

[MadMojoMonkey]

Sounds like we found a martyr!

[oskar]

Well on an infinite timeline any finite subsection does not exist. So mathematically speaking you're not just dead, you're super dead.

[Renton]

Last generation was the best time to be alive in human history up until that point. This generation is the best time to be alive in human history. Next generation will be the best time to be alive in human history. Everyone thinks things are so bad and on the wrong track, and yet all the graphs for human living standards seem to be hockey sticks pointing up.

The planet could probably support a human population of hundreds of billions, if not trillions. The vertical farms, 3-d printed steaks, and carbon sinks are coming. Not to mention a multi-planetary human race.

[Savy]

Last generation was the best time to be alive in human history up until that point. This generation is the best time to be alive in human history. Next generation will be the best time to be alive in human history. Everyone thinks things are so bad and on the wrong track, and yet all the graphs for human living standards seem to be hockey sticks pointing up.

The planet could probably support a human population of hundreds of billions, if not trillions. The vertical farms, 3-d printed steaks, and carbon sinks are coming. Not to mention a multi-planetary human race.

There has actually been lots of work done that shows this generation is the first generation that will be worse off than the one before it but ye I don't into all the back in my day, end of the world shite people spew.

[Renton]

There has actually been lots of work done that shows this generation is the first generation that will be worse off than the one before it but ye I don't into all the back in my day, end of the world shite people spew.

Certainly, transient dips in living standards lasting a generation are possible, but on a human history scale, I'm an optimist.

edited to add: Also, the studies you're referring to are isolating the relatively well-to-do first world people. If you take ALL humans, this generation is way better than the last one. Look at how much better the average Indian or Chinese person is doing now than three decades ago. Globalization / free trade and the impending collapse of Euro-socialism will take white people down a peg but the human race will keep trucking onward and upward.

[Savy]

Certainly, transient dips in living standards lasting a generation are possible, but on a human history scale, I'm an optimist.

edited to add: Also, the studies you're referring to are isolating the relatively well-to-do first world people. If you take ALL humans, this generation is way better than the last one. Look at how much better the average Indian or Chinese person is doing now than three decades ago. Globalization / free trade and the impending collapse of Euro-socialism will take white people down a peg but the human race will keep trucking onward and upward.

That's true, globally I'm sure things are on the up.

[wufwugy]

Even without global statistics, today's generation is by far better off than previous ones. The data that show otherwise are inadequate to show true prosperity, and economists know it but they also know they don't have that many better options than a handful of blunt metrics.

When you compare total capital of one time in terms of a previous time, you'll get colossal increases in prosperity as time goes on. This is because of technological deflation, where new technologies provide more for less. The reason economists rarely speak in these terms is because the effects are simply not quantifiable. However, lots of economists still make this point. For example, each one of us today is more or less a trillionaire regarding pretty much any industry from a 100 years ago. Food for example, the amount of money it would have taken a person living in 1900 to eat the way any of us do today would be some godawful astronomical sum. But we don't get a trillionaire's level of satisfaction from these because these things don't scale linearly.

We are significantly better off than we were just ten years ago, but it doesn't feel like we are, probably because perceptions are relative. But stop and think, how much money did people spend on music CDs back in 2000? Compare that to 2010 and the real product we get in economic terms is probably like 100s of billions more. Our "real" music satisfaction is probably increased a few times over in that decade (if that was even quantifiable), but our perception of satisfaction is for the most part the same as it used to be.

[oskar]

Even without global statistics, today's generation is by far better off than previous ones.

After every move my Jenga tower is higher than it was at the previous move.

Steel armor, a declining Incan empire, well managed road system, and foreign diseases ain't bad either.

I've already spent too much energy on a very ill formed point.

[wufwugy]

After every move my Jenga tower is higher than it was at the previous move.

Why do you use this analogy for civilization?

[a500lbgorilla]

When you really boil it down, what made this possible was ink on paper.

Steel armor, a declining Incan empire, well managed road system, and foreign diseases ain't bad either.

[a500lbgorilla]

I'm not worried about long term trends in terms of wealth, but the curve in the hockey stick is because of oil. Exponential returns on labor for drilling into the ground. Oil will still probably be better than solar for a long time in a lot of regards - energy density, ease of energy release, abundance, cost. Problem is, all that oil use is definitely having an impact on the world's environment, and the environment is the source of every red cent of wealth ever generated.

[a500lbgorilla]

Thinking out loud about oil - oil is one of those things where the costs of production and the costs of use are immeasurably huge and in no possible way captured by a modern price-point or market place.

Life had to sift carbon from the air with the help of the energy of the sun, then be enveloped by the Earth, and cooked and crushed - a process that takes longer than humans have ever existed, and maybe used more raw source energy than we may have ever used, and certainly more than we could ever get back from the oil.

Then we evolve in an atmosphere of lowered oxygen and carbon and we go through the process of returning the carbon back to the air, all the while facilitating our own lives. Meanwhile hoping that we'll find a method that uses much, much less energy, to put all that carbon back into the ground. Or, more likely, simply kicking the can down the road for when the problem becomes appreciable to people.

edit: it's funny, look at this hockey stick graph https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geological_history_of_oxygen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxygenation_Event

edit: I guess I'm saying that price points and the market are pretty short sighted in the scheme of things.

[a500lbgorilla]

Why does present-day oxygen sit at 20%? This is not a trivial question since significantly lower or higher levels would be damaging to life. If we had < 15% oxygen, fires would not burn, yet at > 25% oxygen, even wet organic matter would burn freely.

Fuckin awesome

[wufwugy]

I know little about externality, so you won't get essays from me on the "true" cost of oil. I know that makes y'all sad.

One thing I will say, though, is that there doesn't seem reason to believe that there are better ways to assess and price externality than markets. People want governments to get involved, but really, if a government had enough information to produce positive results, the market would as well (and it would be a little better at it too).

Another thing is that let's say you're really concerned about the negative externality of increased atmospheric carbon and want to do something about it. So, you get all these policies that reduce carbon output significantly enough that the marginal social cost curve drops down and meets the marginal private cost curve (meaning, the negative externality disappears). But then you may find that the increased costs from those policies throughout the rest of the economy are actually greater than they were before (you can find this because all costs are measured in the same terms). Did you solve a problem by eliminating the negative externality of carbon emissions? Not really, because by net the problems increased.

[oskar]

If the destructive power increases with technological progress then you'll end up at a point where you need very few people to archive total destruction.

[wufwugy]

If the destructive power increases with technological progress then you'll end up at a point where you need very few people to archive total destruction.

The only example I can think of is a brief period of time in the Cold War where an individual could launch nukes (at least according to legend).

How do you think destructive power of technology will look like in the future?

[MadMojoMonkey]

The only example I can think of is a brief period of time in the Cold War where an individual could launch nukes (at least according to legend).

... and..?

Are you suggesting that if you can't think of it, then it doesn't exist?

[wufwugy]

... and..?

Are you suggesting that if you can't think of it, then it doesn't exist?

No. I provided my input on the type of thing that supports his argument, and then asked for his input on the type of thing that supports his argument.

[OngBonga]

If the destructive power increases with technological progress then you'll end up at a point where you need very few people to archive total destruction.

The ultimate test for humanity. We had better evolve into nice humans before we get to the point where total destruction is viable.

[oskar]

Just because Geneva says biological and chemical warfare is a big no-no doesn't mean that no one is working on it behind closed doors.

[wufwugy]

I like the Adams Law of Slow-Moving Disasters for that. The bottom of civilization falling out due to biological or chemical weapons would most likely be due to atypical unforced errors on an epic scale. Like if we let SJWs run the West for the next 50 years, which would probably be enough to allow for Islamists to get the destruction they want.

[a500lbgorilla]

Maybe.

Or maybe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medea_hypothesis

I literally distance myself from this. I just thought it was funny when I found it.

[wufwugy]

Occam would like to speak with Medea

[MadMojoMonkey]

Anyone else think that events like the Dallas and Baton Rouge ambushing of police officers is a long time coming?

I'm not in favor of killing ANYONE w/o due process of law. I'm not supporting violence against cops, but I think I understand it.

The news stories of unarmed people who have not benefited from due process being killed by police activity... those are nothing new... and every time there is a cover up... like... "Oh, his camera happened to be not recording at that time." it sends the message that this is the status quo and nothing is being seriously done to change it.

Where have all the good cops voices been which call out a police cover-up as what it is?
Those voices might be out there, but not getting any press. It's hard to fathom the "good ole boy" network putting up with dissent, though.

I suspect the violence directed at police has been seriously stifled by public decency and the patience to let the system fix itself. Now the blindingly obvious fact that the system isn't interested in fixing itself, merely giving the impression of said fix... that's when the public loses it's temper and patience.

[wufwugy]

Anyone else think that events like the Dallas and Baton Rouge ambushing of police officers is a long time coming?

It's what happens when (1) the media favors reporting on events where a black person not in the process of shooting at a cop is himself killed by a white cop, (2) the media falsely reports on the events, pushing "facts" that are later shown to be false, (3) black supremacists take to the streets and to twitter en masse, (4) the media covers these black supremacists favorably, (5) the heads of the Democratic Party, namely Obama and Clinton, explicitly endorse the rhetoric of these black supremacists and implicitly endorse their actions.

These cop executions are a result of our racist media and our racist President giving other racists the justification they need to enact their racist fantasies.

Here's a tweet from the second most well known political figure right after the police executions in Dallas:

White Americans need to do a better job of listening when African Americans talk about the seen and unseen barriers you face every day.

What amazing racism she has.

[a500lbgorilla]

Anyone else think that events like the Dallas and Baton Rouge ambushing of police officers is a long time coming?

No.

I'm not in favor of killing ANYONE

Says Mr. LongTimeComing

w/o due process of law. I'm not supporting violence against cops, but I think I understand it.

There is no understanding. People have become pissed off enough to do something about it. Timmy McV was pretty pissed off. Jim Jones was mad...

The news stories

What you see is all there is. The stories you don't hear have no impact on your sense or belief of the world.

of unarmed people who have not benefited from due process being killed by police activity... those are nothing new...

I used to work at a steel mill, and every monday they'd review the injuries across the industry and talk about how to protect against them. Some guy slides backwards and had his leg severed off underneath a rail-car - Some guy was too close to a molten steel bubble - and you watched those videos. All so that when you went to work, the mistakes of those before you were in the front of your mind...

What happens when you go to work and you're shown video after video of one of your brothers in uniform sallying up to a car in a routine traffic stop - shot dead? What happens when you''re reminded time and again how thin that thin blue line truly is?

Every time you pull someone over for seemingly nothing, you've seen 15 others doing the same thing and dying for it.

Where have all the good cop's voices been? They've been shot at, and killed...

[MadMojoMonkey]

No.

Says Mr. LongTimeComing

I don't have to support something, or even like it, to explain it.
If I'm dead wrong about this, then please enlighten me. I claim no expertise in how/why people do things.

I don't think you actually heard my point, though.

[a500lbgorilla]

I don't have to support something, or even like it, to explain it.
If I'm dead wrong about this, then please enlighten me. I claim no expertise in how/why people do things.

I don't think you actually heard my point, though.

I heard your point.

Your point was that you couldn't think as the cops do. I tried to help you think as the cops do.

[MadMojoMonkey]

I heard your point.

Your point was that you couldn't think as the cops do. I tried to help you think as the cops do.

That's not my point.

My point wasn't about how cops think; it's how the appearance of police brutality has been an ongoing issue which the police force / media have not effectively quelled. It's about how that appearance has been simmering in the background for decades and in past years it seems to be boiling to a head.

[a500lbgorilla]

I'm not in favor of killing ANYONE w/o due process of law. I'm not supporting violence against cops, but

Which sentence are we talking about, MMM?

[MadMojoMonkey]

Which sentence are we talking about, MMM?

BTW, you know that "but" is logically equivalent to "and," right?


***
Which one sounds more like English to you?

I'm not supporting violence against cops, but I think I understand it.
I'm not supporting violence against cops, and I think I understand it.

[MadMojoMonkey]

If anyone here thinks I'm saying that it's OK to shoot cops, then get your head out of your ass.

[MadMojoMonkey]

What amazing racism she has.

I'm not saying she's not racist, but...

I took a 16 hour course on "Understanding and undoing institutional racism" and it very much opened my eyes to a ton of aspects of our society that stack the deck against non-whites.

Most of what I did during that 16 hours was listen to black people talk about the barriers they deal with on a daily basis. Again... not saying she's not racist, but I can't help but feel her sentiment resonates with my own activities. I was more racist at the time, and I was the kind of white guy who wanted to attend a 16 hour shindig on the topic. There are lots of subtle and insidious ways in which people who do not support racism can accidentally do stupid things.

E.g. a poor white neighborhood is called a "trailer park." A park? How lovely.
A poor black neighborhood is called a "ghetto." What horrible imagery harkening back to WWII Germany.
Maybe it will be called a "hood." As if to say, "this neighborhood is not neighborly."

E.g. It is statistically much easier for a white person to get a bank loan (at least, it was 10 years ago). This means that white people have access to goods which they do not own which improve their quality of life, while the non-white communities live an ostensibly poorer lifestyle, but actually own all of the things they use.


There is no single racist person or practice that sets up these situations. They're the legacy of decades of racism trickling down through the system. Most white people I know shrug these kind of things off as non-issues. I don't know any black people who consider them non-issues. I don't think it's out of malice on the part of white people, it's merely out of never facing that kind of implicit BS and not even seeing that there is implicit BS in what they are doing.


If merely saying, "Black people face different challenges than white people." counts as racist, then I'm happy to be a racist. IMO, we should be careful to keep a word of condemnation meaning that something deplorable has happened.

[a500lbgorilla]

I took a 16 hour course on "Understanding and undoing institutional racism" and it very much opened my eyes to a ton of aspects of our society that stack the deck against non-whites.

Take these stupid glasses off.

I get that living in China is easier for a Chinese person.

For whatever our society gifts us as white people, that does nothing to change the reality of those cops going to work every day and risking their lives.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Take these stupid glasses off.

We can have the conversation another time when you're not so adrenalized, if you'd like.

It's not like you to insult me, and it's not like me to give a crap other people's emotional judgements, so I see we're at an impasse for the moment.

[wufwugy]

E.g. a poor white neighborhood is called a "trailer park." A park? How lovely.
A poor black neighborhood is called a "ghetto." What horrible imagery harkening back to WWII Germany.
Maybe it will be called a "hood." As if to say, "this neighborhood is not neighborly."

Black people outside of the south by large live in inner cities. Much of the culture has embraced the term "ghetto." Lots of whites live in trailers in suburban and rural situations. They decided to call some of these parks and largely embraced the terminology.

E.g. It is statistically much easier for a white person to get a bank loan (at least, it was 10 years ago). This means that white people have access to goods which they do not own which improve their quality of life, while the non-white communities live an ostensibly poorer lifestyle, but actually own all of the things they use.

Statistically, the risk banks have in loans to blacks is higher. However, I would be VERY surprised if this held true when all else is equal. In fact, I would expect a suburban black with job and a family to have an easier time of getting a loan than an equivalent white. The government did the best it could to create the housing crisis by pushing this anyways.

They're the legacy of decades of racism trickling down through the system.

Being racist doesn't pay. What pays is doing stuff to "help" black people, to make yourself seem as anti-racist as possible. There are other better explanations for the intrinsic unfairness of the world. Additionally, the "legacy of racism" doesn't play. Blacks performed much better on the most important metrics a long time ago, back when racism was a big thing compared to today. The best example experts have been able come up with for the trigger that started the falling apart for blacks is welfare.



As for Clinton's statement specifically, I call it intensely racist since the cops were killed for explicitly racist reasons and Clinton's response is to implicitly sanction that.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Black people outside of the south by large live in inner cities. Much of the culture has embraced the term "ghetto." Lots of whites live in trailers in suburban and rural situations. They decided to call some of these parks and largely embraced the terminology.



Statistically, the risk banks have in loans to blacks is higher. However, I would be VERY surprised if this held true when all else is equal. In fact, I would expect a suburban black with job and a family to have an easier time of getting a loan than an equivalent white. The government did the best it could to create the housing crisis by pushing this anyways.



Being racist doesn't pay. What pays is doing stuff to "help" black people, to make yourself seem as anti-racist as possible. There are other better explanations for the intrinsic unfairness of the world. Additionally, the "legacy of racism" doesn't play. Blacks performed much better on the most important metrics a long time ago, back when racism was a big thing compared to today. The best example experts have been able come up with for the trigger that started the falling apart for blacks is welfare.



As for Clinton's statement specifically, I call it intensely racist since the cops were killed for explicitly racist reasons and Clinton's response is to implicitly sanction that.

If you're trying to tell me that institutionalized racism is a myth, then I can only conclude that you have decided this to be the case w/o looking in to the matter. I assumed the same before I took the course. I learned a lot and I'm not going to attempt to tell you to "trust me" about any of it, so I'm not going to press any points. Needless to say, nothing I've quoted here has changed my opinions on the matter. You may as well tell me that electrons don't exist. Sorry, bro, but mine own eyes have observed. It'll take more than your word to change my mind.

Being racist doesn't need to have actual value, it has perceived value. My friend wuf told me that is the only kind of value that makes a person ever do anything and no person ever does anything for any other reason. (or I misunderstood him, which does happen)


The reality we observe is far more complex than any single mind can comprehend. It's very hard for us to realize that the "reality" that our brain lets us see through it's filtering system is definitely not the reality that makes it through any other brain's filtering system. As much as we think we understand the world, the bare bones fact is that we only understand what we observe and that's nowhere near the whole story.
There is no other being in the universe, past or future, which will see it from behind your eyes.
Different worlds exist all around us.

[wufwugy]

If you're trying to tell me that institutionalized racism is a myth, then I can only conclude that you have decided this to be the case w/o looking in to the matter. I assumed the same before I took the course. I learned a lot and I'm not going to attempt to tell you to "trust me" about any of it, so I'm not going to press any points. Needless to say, nothing I've quoted here has changed my opinions on the matter. You may as well tell me that electrons don't exist. Sorry, bro, but mine own eyes have observed. It'll take more than your word to change my mind.

Being racist doesn't need to have actual value, it has perceived value. My friend wuf told me that is the only kind of value that makes a person ever do anything and no person ever does anything for any other reason. (or I misunderstood him, which does happen)


The reality we observe is far more complex than any single mind can comprehend. It's very hard for us to realize that the "reality" that our brain lets us see through it's filtering system is definitely not the reality that makes it through any other brain's filtering system. As much as we think we understand the world, the bare bones fact is that we only understand what we observe and that's nowhere near the whole story.
There is no other being in the universe, past or future, which will see it from behind your eyes.
Different worlds exist all around us.

I used to be a hardcore believer in institutional racism.

The hypothesis is weak. Its claim of evidence is the existence of disparity of outcome, and it also claims that institutional racism is so subtle that it is hard to see. There is very little rigor in these standards.

[MadMojoMonkey]

FWIW, if you can't take the job as a police officer and remain non-violent until you are actively and immediately threatened, and even then keeping your own level of violence at the bare minimum to end the threat, then get the fuck out of the police force. You are not qualified to hold a gun.

[a500lbgorilla]

FWIW, if you can't take the job as a police officer and remain non-violent until you are actively and immediately threatened, and even then keeping your own level of violence at the bare minimum to end the threat, then get the fuck out of the police force. You are not qualified to hold a gun.

You can't stay safe and wait to be the second to act in a do-or-die scenario, mmm

Here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5qDRDPI2xQ

Guess how many more there are

[OngBonga]

Guess how many more there are

31 so far this year.

[a500lbgorilla]

31 so far this year.

You're the best

[OngBonga]

You're the best

I'm torn between siding with you or mojo on this one. I can see both sides. It's no surprise to me that white cops are getting shot, based on the media frenzy when it comes to black people getting shot by white cops. This is all design. I'm surprised it took this long for the shit to hit the fan, hence me understanding what mojo means by "a long time coming".

That is not an endorsement though. What is happening is horrible, it is not the answer.

[MadMojoMonkey]

You can't stay safe and wait to be the second to act in a do-or-die scenario, mmm

Here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5qDRDPI2xQ

Guess how many more there are

This does not compel me to say that the fatal shooting of any non-violent people is therefore excusable.

What are you even saying? That police can't know who will be violent so it's OK for them to kill if they feel a bit scared?

[a500lbgorilla]

This does not compel me to say that the fatal shooting of any non-violent people is therefore excusable.

What are you even saying? That police can't know who will be violent so it's OK for them to kill if they feel a bit scared?

Just this one word is where we disagree.

It's a tough job...

[MadMojoMonkey]

Just this one word is where we disagree.

It's a tough job...

I'm not claiming the job is easy. If anything, I'm claiming the standards for holding the job are too low.


What word would you prefer? What is it that you're suggesting?

[wufwugy]

FWIW, if you can't take the job as a police officer and remain non-violent until you are actively and immediately threatened, and even then keeping your own level of violence at the bare minimum to end the threat, then get the fuck out of the police force. You are not qualified to hold a gun.

The media has done a fantastic job of making it seem like they don't do this.

[a500lbgorilla]

The media has done a fantastic job of making it seem like they don't do this.

Both of you are wrong.

People take the job in earnest and they work it in earnest. They aren't saints or devils, just people.

[wufwugy]

Both of you are wrong.

People take the job in earnest and they work it in earnest. They aren't saints or devils, just people.

It's not about being saints or devils. Cops are virtually required to keep things as safe as possible. It's gonna be real hard to find a cop that wakes up and says "today I plan on creating an unsafe situation."

[OngBonga]

I think the phrase "a long time coming" is somewhat clumsy, as it implies support. I realise that is not your intention, but I can see why rilla took issue with that comment.

[a500lbgorilla]

Imagine if your industry wasn't steel production but policing...

Imagine the video that talks about taking safety precautions for you

[a500lbgorilla]

But negates everything before it. You wanted to say and, say and.

[MadMojoMonkey]

But negates everything before it. You wanted to say and, say and.

This is simply false. When applying the rules of logic to evaluate a syllogism, "but" is identical to "and."

[a500lbgorilla]

This is simply false. When applying the rules of logic to evaluate a syllogism, "but" is identical to "and."

I'm 6 feet tall,
but I like to sit on short chairs.
This chair is non-short.
Therefore I do not like to sit on this chair.

We ain't logcal, we're human. And in the cadence of human speech, but frequently negates what becomes before it.

When you throw out platitudes for 'the other side' then sweep them together with "but", only then do you make your point.

You were trying to defend your position by placating those that might disagree with you, then you pivoted to your actual point - that you understand why cops were being shot.

[MadMojoMonkey]

We ain't logcal, we're human. And in the cadence of human speech, but frequently negates what becomes before it.

When you throw out platitudes for 'the other side' then sweep them together with "but", only then do you make your point.

You were trying to defend your position by placating those that might disagree with you, then you pivoted to your actual point - that you understand why cops were being shot.

The whole thing is my point. Don't cherry pick some portions to be placating, while others are for realz. The "placating" points are there to make it clear that I'm not saying this turn of events is a good thing. I'm only hypothesizing a common motivation for 2 similar events in different states. I am seeking understanding, not seeking to condone.

[a500lbgorilla]

I'm 1 foot short and sleep standing

[MadMojoMonkey]

Had to ninja that out. it was a terrible example. I'm getting busy at work, and can't think of a better one.


I'm sure you can think of some examples which show that but = and, logically.

[a500lbgorilla]

Had to ninja that out. it was a terrible example. I'm getting busy at work, and can't think of a better one.


I'm sure you can think of some examples which show that but = and, logically.

I ain't gonna hold mistakes against you, unless they're actually your mistakes

[MadMojoMonkey]

God damn it.. when I ninja edit, then ninja delete a post, and you ninja my ninja...


Well... if I had more time I'd tell you just how low a form of moderator you are. Poopyface!

[a500lbgorilla]

Well, then, yeah!

[MadMojoMonkey]

Well, then, yeah!

You're the best, man... you know that, right?


I love when you make a point because it's always a humbling experience to hear your thoughts when you're on your game.

[wufwugy]

A worthy Crowder video debunking the BLM martyrs. It is very rare that the cops act in unreasonable fashion, and when they do, they typically go to prison:

[a500lbgorilla]

It aint hard to find one that thinks, "today, I'm willing to kill someone else to protect myself"...

Their job is hard.

[wufwugy]

It aint hard to find one that thinks, "today, I'm willing to kill someone else to protect myself"...

Their job is hard.

I think that.

[a500lbgorilla]

I think that.

Me too. I think it's ridiculous to not see how and why cops are so quick to the trigger. I've gone to work and been prepared to die - been made aware of how I could die - and it was pennys compared to what they face day in and day out.

[wufwugy]

I'm more afraid of dying from bad food than I am from getting shot by a cop.

[wufwugy]

Of course if I was a punk ass who turns situations with cops into unsafe guessing games, then I'd be afraid of cops.

[a500lbgorilla]

And then those are coming to me and saying it was a long time coming...

Gonna be a long time still before any of us gets where we want to go...

[MadMojoMonkey]

And then those are coming to me and saying it was a long time coming...

Gonna be a long time still before any of us gets where we want to go...

I mean that I am surprised some shit like this hasn't happened sooner.

It's a long time coming, as in: I see the current events which seem to have triggered this thing about ambushing cops as nothing new. Therefore, the recent events seem more like a proverbial straw that broke the camel's back than a new outrage at a newly perceived offense.

I don't see why anyone attaches a judgement connotation to that statement, but I meant none at all, and I did my best to plainly spell out that I don't see this as a good turn of events.