*** OFFICIAL BREXIT SUNLIT UPLANDS and #MEGA THREAD ***

[MadMojoMonkey]

Unfortunately this is not an argument anyone wins. This problem isn't going away, even if myself and mojo reach an agreement.

The problem is you have two opposing sides who are both trying to protect one group, and is comes at the perceived cost of another group. Nobody thinks they are on the wrong side of history when it comes to this debate.

When both sides of the argument is motivated by good, and when backing down means a perceived abandonment of the group you think you're protecting, then compromise is hard to come by.

Mojo has no intention of relaxing his view because the women I claim to be protecting, he thinks are bigots. If I can't make him see differently, there's no hope. I have to respect his opinion even if I disagree. I sort of understand why he thinks it. It's just not a view I share. I use the word bigot differently to how he uses it... for me it's a matter of hate, not fear. Mojo wants to protect trans people from social exclusion. That's a fine motivation.

I have no intention of relaxing my view because to do so would be to accept that women are wrong to want privacy from other sexes in certain contexts. I don't believe they are wrong to want that. I understand why they went separation from men, so I extend that understanding to other people who are not women.

We're both motivated by our sense of morality. We both want a better society. And that is not something either of us want to budge on. So no progress happens. This isn't just a problem for me and mojo, it's the same problem society faces.

Goddamn... well said.

Respect

[Vinland]

Not going away anytime soon. Kind of depressing.
It has a lot to do with comfort as well. Its comforting for people to have things stay as they are and hard to redo parts of society, even if it is a bathroom...

almost as depressing as the traffic here. I'm still in shock that it has dropped to basically two guys here from the thousands it was. It's shocking how effective black friday was and its been over ten years. I stopped playing and I'm Canadian. I started dabbling again on Pokerstars on mobile which sucks but I have no laptop/desktop for now. So I thought id see if the old place was still running. It genuinely saddens me to see a community completely gone.

[MadMojoMonkey]

I think it comes down to "why" do women have the right to private spaces where men are excluded?
What motivates that right?

How is that different for trans people?


Though it's problematic for me that ong keeps insisting women need these spaces, but then denying a woman the right to declare their womanhood as their and only their right.

[Poopadoop]

Glad you guys sorted that out. Group hug everyone.

In #MEGA news, the Tories have been pouring gasoline on the skip fire of public opinion of them with their shitty uncosted budget and stubborn refusal to reverse it. If this keeps up, they may be the first party in history to achieve <0% support in the polls.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Lol. That graph suggest something like 95% of voters would vote.
I call BS.
Either it's a severely limited sample of the constituency limited to people who always vote, or the people who answered were blatantly lying by saying they would vote at all.

Also... lack of a legend to say what color is what is just bad graphing, mmmkay?

[Poopadoop]

Lol. That graph suggest something like 95% of voters would vote.
I call BS.
Either it's a severely limited sample of the constituency limited to people who always vote, or the people who answered were blatantly lying by saying they would vote at all.

It's 100% of people who gave a clear answer; there's another line there around 4%

Also... lack of a legend to say what color is what is just bad graphing, mmmkay?

They also have a value missing for yellow. Amateurs. But don't worry I'll help you out.

Labour: Woke, libtard, commie union supporting red
Tories: True, patriotic, dingy-sinking, Europe-leaving blue
LibDems: Slightly less woke, but still kinda libtard orange
Green Party: Broccoli eating, tree hugging green
Scottish National Party: Traitorous, haggis eating yellow

Don't even know who the ones at 3% and 1% are, but they're losers. Bigly.

[Poopadoop]

So the Brains Truss has only been PM a little over a month and is already having to sack her Chancellor (finance minister) "Kamekwasi" Kwarteng, after his mini-budget tanked the markets.

Rumours are she's next.

Tories are so shit it's not even funny anymore.

[oskar]

So the Brains Truss has only been PM a little over a month and is already having to sack her Chancellor (finance minister) "Kamekwasi" Kwarteng, after his mini-budget tanked the markets.

Rumours are she's next.

Tories are so shit it's not even funny anymore.

[Poopadoop]

My money is on the lettuce.

[Poopadoop]

Plot twist: Kamekwasi is now the PM but has sacked himself as Chancellor.

https://twitter.com/adampayne26/stat...02907351732225

[OngBonga]

I dunno what you linked to there but the tweet has already gone.

I mean it seems to me that the Tories are trying their absolute hardest to lose the next election, and the funny thing is Labour are so bad that it's still basically a coin flip.

[Poopadoop]

I dunno what you linked to there but the tweet has already gone.

It was a letter from the PM thanking Kwasi for his service, signed by Kwasi himself.

I mean it seems to me that the Tories are trying their absolute hardest to lose the next election, and the funny thing is Labour are so bad that it's still basically a coin flip.

Labour will form the next gov't. The only question is whether the Tories or SNP will be the official opposition.

[OngBonga]

Labour will form the next gov't.

I believe it more now than I did six months ago but I'd still say it's close. I know opinion polls suggest otherwise but you know how I feel about those. Besides, actual Tory voters can use opinion polls to say they'll vote Labour as a means of putting pressure on the Tories while having absolutely no intention of voting Labour. So even if the pollster isn't using selective bias to get a result he wants, it's still unreliable.

A lot can change in the build up to an election. The Tories always have the edge because people in general trust capitalism more than socialism, and that's what it boils down to for a lot of people. For Labour to win, they need to take Tory votes. They need to convince Tory voters they can be trusted more with the economy than the Tories. That's not an easy thing to sell.

[Poopadoop]

They need to convince Tory voters they can be trusted more with the economy than the Tories. That's not an easy thing to sell.

If people still need convincing of that now, we may as well just stop having elections and declare the next Tory PM as Fuhrer for life.

[OngBonga]

Someone I follow on Twitter. Not a Tory voter, but right wing.

No, I don't think things could possibly be any worse under Labour.

If anything, Starmer would calm the markets.


That's how bad the Tories have become....

Maybe poop is right, maybe the Tories really are fucking it up to the point where right leaning people trust Labour more.

Boris must be laughing his tits off.

[Poopadoop]

Someone I follow on Twitter. Not a Tory voter, but right wing.



Maybe poop is right, maybe the Tories really are fucking it up to the point where right leaning people trust Labour more.

Boris must be laughing his tits off.

Dunno, depends on how well Jeremy Hunt can do as de facto PM, now that he's chancellor and is basically saying he's going to reverse all of Truss/Kamekwasi's plans.

The situation is so bizarre right now. Truss is PM in name only, her flagship policy of unfunded spending has crashed under her like everyone with a brain said it would. Sunak was saying the same thing during the hustings - "fantasy economics" he called it. And obviously it was. Truss can't command any confidence from anyone inside or outside of gov't any more. She has to go, but she's clinging on because she's a deluded fuck in more ways than economics I guess.

Will be interesting to see who they finally replace her with, and if it results in a GE being called.

Either way, there's no way the Tories stay in power after the next GE; they're toast.

[Poopadoop]

The Tories will have to decide if they want their next leader chosen by the party or by the old geezers at the country club who make up their membership.

Fact is, their last four leaders have each ended up as a bigger failure than the one before them. Cameron who was a remainer but lost the Brexit vote, May who couldn't get a Brexit deal through, Johnson who was a walking scandal-generator, and now Truss.

At least Johnson had Sunak as chancellor, and he had a semblance of understanding economics. I would put him in charge if I were them, but that assumes he actually wants the job. It's starting to be one of those situations where no-one competent would want to be in charge, that's how badly fucked up things are now.

[The Bean Counter]

The latest episode of Yes, Minister has been played out today in real life UK politics. The incompetence is truly shocking.

[Poopadoop]

The latest episode of Yes, Minister has been played out today in real life UK politics. The incompetence is truly shocking.

The remake is even better than the original.

[Poopadoop]

Wow. Tories absolutely imploding atm. It's banana republic-esque.

Earlier today, Cruella Braverman, the Brains Truss' Home Secretary, after blowing up a trade deal with India by shittalking Indians who overstay their visas, then referring to the opposition as "Guardian reading, tofu-eating, wokerati" resigned, taking a shot at the PM in her resignation letter.

Now the chief whip has said he's had enough too, and has also resigned. Other Tory MPs fuming at being whipped to vote in favour of resuming fracking.

How long can Liz the Lettuce romaine as PM? Days, weeks, hours, minutes? No-one knows. All we know is it's probably going to get ugly.

[Poopadoop]

Looks like El Presidente will keep her job until tomorrow morning at least, if not much longer.

[Poopadoop]

lolz.

https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/stat...03182270713856

[Poopadoop]

Gonna pop some popcorn and find a video of this.

https://twitter.com/IanMurrayMP/stat...97073401131009

[MadMojoMonkey]

... are you guys' gov't taking the "whip" thing a bit too literally?

[Poopadoop]

... are you guys' gov't taking the "whip" thing a bit too literally?

The Tories are just completely high on their own supply at this point. They're not just fighting the opposition now, they're fighting the rest of the country, and each other. They have to go, but there's no mechanism to force them out for another two years. It's just chaos.

[The Bean Counter]

We are desperately in need of political reform in the UK. You would have to be a special kind of stupid to not have realised that in the past few months.

[Poopadoop]

We are desperately in need of political reform in the UK. You would have to be a special kind of stupid to not have realised that in the past few months.

Not sure what kind of reform that should be though. Other countries have parliamentary democracies and seem to function pretty well. Maybe replace FPTP with PR? Or, is it just a matter of not electing so many shitheads?

[Poopadoop]

And the lettuce has won.

[The Bean Counter]

Not sure what kind of reform that should be though. Other countries have parliamentary democracies and seem to function pretty well. Maybe replace FPTP with PR? Or, is it just a matter of not electing so many shitheads?

PR is one. Some other ideas for improvement (but not necessarily political reform as such):

Removal of whips.

Pay enough money to attract competent people to politics.

Employ genuine experts in the cabinet and civil service to run government functions.

Fund parties from the public purse, not trade unions and rich individuals and companies looking to gain an advantage

Pursue criminal charges against misue of public funds, lying in the Commons and to the public.

Edit: prevent somebody becoming PM with only 80k people backing them.

[Vinland]

I've never sat down to look into how your parliament works compared to Canada, but you seem to go through more PM's than we ever could. And our parties for the most part stick to their PM's in power bc there is almost zero infighting bc they just agree with the party line no matter how fucking stupid a decision is.
And if you are an MP who strays from the party line on a vote you get your pee pee slapped

[Poopadoop]

I've never sat down to look into how your parliament works compared to Canada, but you seem to go through more PM's than we ever could. And our parties for the most part stick to their PM's in power bc there is almost zero infighting bc they just agree with the party line no matter how fucking stupid a decision is.
And if you are an MP who strays from the party line on a vote you get your pee pee slapped

They're pretty much the same, I'm sure the Canadian one is modelled on the UK one at the very least.

We've had a couple of short-term PMs (<1 year) in my lifetime in Canada, Joe Clarke and Kim Whatserface. But it's never been a revolving door like it is here now.

[Vinland]

LOL she lasted six weeks.
Bring on the next one.....

[OngBonga]

It's gonna be Boris isn't it?

[Poopadoop]

It's gonna be Boris isn't it?

My money is on Mourdant. Either her or an avocado.

[Vinland]

Kim Campbell. She took over for Mulroney when he stepped down, but he stepped down after what, 7 years? And she got it by default and then lost in the election, not bc she resigned. It just seems so strange that a party will have such vocal disagreements with the PM. I'm not used to that.
The Conservatives had some infighting over the last ten years, but the most vocal ended up leaving and forming their own party.

[Poopadoop]

Kim Campbell. She took over for Mulroney when he stepped down, but he stepped down after what, 7 years? And she got it by default and then lost in the election, not bc she resigned.

Oh yeah, Campbell. I guess I've never seen a Canadian PM resign except when they lose an election.

[Poopadoop]

Tory party here is split between centrists, center-right, and loony far right. They really have no-one who can bridge that gap just because it's so wide. There's some fringe parties that are on the far left or right and they never win many seats.

Labour went hard left with Corbyn and lost to a Tory party that was itself shit, twice. At least Labour has Starmer now who should soak up all the centrist voters who are sick of the Tories' ongoing shitshow.

[Poopadoop]

Seems Boris is contemplating a comeback to run for the vacant PM job, with a number of Tory MPs already declaring support for him.

I mean ok, I kinda get the idea that he doesn't seem so bad now that we've had a month or so of Truss body-slamming the economy, but still, come on. You just fucking got rid of the guy with most of his cabinet resigning. Don't try to give us this shit that he's actually really good and that was all just a big whoopsie. fml.

[OngBonga]

He's the only candidate with a real democratic mandate. Although you'd think we need an election regardless of who wins, May 2023 the latest.

[Poopadoop]

He's the only candidate with a real democratic mandate. Although you'd think we need an election regardless of who wins, May 2023 the latest.

By that logic, he never should have been removed. So like I said, just a big whoopsie.

[OngBonga]

By that logic, he never should have been removed. So like I said, just a big whoopsie.

He quit. People are allowed to quit their jobs.

I would also agree with your obvious response that he quit his mandate and needs another one to effectively govern. But no other candidate has any kind of mandate. Sunak lost to Truss in a leadership contest, he doesn't even have the support of Tory voters.

I don't give a fuck who gets the job. We need an election by May 2023 the latest. Whoever is the leader until then is merely keeping the seat warm.

[Poopadoop]

He quit. People are allowed to quit their jobs.

lol, that's a creative interpretation of the word "quit." He only quit after most of his cabinet resigned. Even then he was hiring more ministers as fast as he could. So he obviously was trying to hang on.

We need an election by May 2023 the latest.

I agree. The problem is there's nothing to say the Tories have to call one. They can go through as many leaders as they like.

Also, it's not in their interest to call one soon, as they would get decimated. The best outcome for them now would be to put in someone halfway competent like Sunak or possibly Mordaunt, then try to stabilise things for two years, then call a GE. They'll still lose but not as badly.

[Poopadoop]

Damn, just realised I forgot to change my avatar to the new PM.

[MadMojoMonkey]

If y'all mofos let BoJo back in, then y'all deserve what you get from that.
SMH

You can say the same if Trump gets reelected.

[The Bean Counter]

If Boris becomes PM again, I'll be at the front of the rioting mob.

[OngBonga]

I don't think they'll be able to resist the pressure for an election. There will be noise all winter. People could stomach May 2023 because May is traditionally when we go to the polls, and it gives the new leader reasonable time to prove he/she is up to the job. But if this lingers on for years, it will do more damage than good to the Tories.

Let's assume the Tories actually want to win the next election. Their best chance is to quickly put someone in charge who is competent, call and election for May '23, and hope the new leader goes some way to fixing the damage done by Truss. Sound economic policies will result in a market bounce, and that will look really good for whoever is in charge. This could even be an elaborate plan to win a snap election. The paranoid fucker in me is always suspicious when politicians do stupid things. These people aren't stupid. They're assholes. So when they do what seems to be a stupid things, like testing your eyes by going on a long drive with your family, it kinda pings my radar. So tanking the markets so they can repair it and make a new leader look like an economic genius, that falls into the "plausible" category if not "likely".

[Poopadoop]

Looks like it's going to be Prime Minister Sunak.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1584273945775464448

I can't believe BJ got even one person to nominate him; those guys are so desperate it's not even funny.

[Poopadoop]

And here I was thinking it'll be nice to have a normal person as PM.





Seriously, wtaf? Did someone clone him and insert a chip in his head to make him talk like that?

[Poopadoop]

Oh wait here it is.

Edit: ffs, won't post.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSimpsons...ter_tom_jones/

[oskar]

And here I was thinking it'll be nice to have a normal person as PM.





Seriously, wtaf? Did someone clone him and insert a chip in his head to make him talk like that?

Ok, this is going to be lit!

[Poopadoop]

Ok, this is going to be lit!

Can't wait for the video by the body language experts to try to decipher this one; it'll just be one hour of them scratching their heads.

[Poopadoop]

Went looking for a gif of that Simpson's episode where Smithers kidnaps Tom Jones and makes him appear before Marge with a gun in his back as what Sunak's speech seemed like, but found this instead.

Serendipity ftw.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Ahhh... Makes me wonder what wufwugy is up to.
Prob like married with kids and a big-kid job by now.

Hope he's doing well, whatever he's up to.

[Poopadoop]

The good news is that regardless of his robotic speech, there's no reason to think he's going to anything to crash the economy or piss off our allies. So there's that.

[Poopadoop]

Perfectly normal. Everythings fine.

[Vinland]

I remember that name. Wasn’t wufugy the forums’ socialist? Wanted to kill rich people (or tax them 99% can’t remember which one)?

He had some interesting, but good arguments. Wasn’t sure he played poker seemed like he was always in here

[Poopadoop]

I remember that name. Wasn’t wufugy the forums’ socialist? Wanted to kill rich people (or tax them 99% can’t remember which one)?

He had some interesting, but good arguments. Wasn’t sure he played poker seemed like he was always in here

Nope, he was a big Trump fan.

[OngBonga]

Wuf was a hard-on capitalist. Presumably still is, idk. It's been a few years since he last said hi.

I can't remember who wanted to tax rich fuckers 99%, wuf might have said it in jest but I can't imagine why any sensible person, even leftists, would ever think this is sound economic policy. 49% is as extreme as tax should ever get imo, the earner should be keeping the majority of every penny they earn, whether that be slinging burgers or performing brain surgery or hedge fund management. A society should be able to function with lower tax than that though. If we're having to tax rich fuckers half their salary, then something is wrong with the economic system, most likely corruption.

[The Bean Counter]

I can't remember who wanted to tax rich fuckers 99%, wuf might have said it in jest but I can't imagine why any sensible person, even leftists, would ever think this is sound economic policy. 49% is as extreme as tax should ever get imo, the earner should be keeping the majority of every penny they earn, whether that be slinging burgers or performing brain surgery or hedge fund management. A society should be able to function with lower tax than that though. If we're having to tax rich fuckers half their salary, then something is wrong with the economic system, most likely corruption.

The marginal tax rate on going from £100k to £125k is a minimum of 65% and at least 73% if you have one child in childcare. So anybody with half a brain earning £100k-£140k just puts everything over £100k into pension. Tax cap on pension is £40k per year.

[Poopadoop]

The knives are already out for Fishi lol.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...21aafee13b25fc

[OngBonga]

I think he backed away from Trump but at first yes he liked him.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Wuf wouldn't have argued to tax anyone 99%. His position was that taxation is theft.

He supported Trump at first, even into the first year of his presidency, but got fed up with him, eventually.
Funny, one thing he once said about Dems firing at Trump is that it was like they were just throwing pickles at a window, hoping one would stick. That much hasn't changed, really.

[Poopadoop]

Hope you bitcoin guys are getting ready to sell, I have a feeling the market is about to crash.

https://twitter.com/jemimajoanna/sta...06547948343296

[OngBonga]

I'm not buying yet. I am waiting for an entry point but not yet.

[Poopadoop]

Bazinga!

[Poopadoop]

Oh man. This is painful.

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1588500380933128193

[Poopadoop]

Starmer has been eating Sunak alive at PMQs. "Bring the lettuce back" lol.

https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/s...22958484254727

[Poopadoop]

That would be horrible.

https://twitter.com/ThatAlexWoman/st...54677175631872

[oskar]

[Poopadoop]

^ Goddamn Europeans with their lack of trade barriers and their schadenfreude!

Thank God Rishi has seen the light...we don't need your goddamn frictionless trade - we have sovereignty!

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1594668858694144002

[Poopadoop]

Are they trying to be funny?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...exit-red-tape/

[OngBonga]

lol the voice of reason on Twitter...

I would never ask someone where they are from and if they tried to tell me I would cover my ears and start screaming.

Basically an old lady who works at the Palace asked a black woman who was wearing traditional Barbadian attire where she is from. Naturally she's from England and this is such a fucking outrageous question to ask a British woman wearing "ask me about my culture" clothes that it's worthy of front page news and an apology followed by a resignation.

[MadMojoMonkey]

lol the voice of reason on Twitter...



Basically an old lady who works at the Palace asked a black woman who was wearing traditional Barbadian attire where she is from. Naturally she's from England and this is such a fucking outrageous question to ask a British woman wearing "ask me about my culture" clothes that it's worthy of front page news and an apology followed by a resignation.

I mean... the first time she asked, it was kosher.
Then the woman replied: I was born here, I'm British.
And the rich lady was all: no, seriously, where are you from?

The first time was fine. The 2nd time was kinda fucked up.

[OngBonga]

My speculation of how the conversation likely went is along the lines of...

"Where are you from?"
"I'm from Britain."
"Yes but where are your people from?"

Given the context, that Fulani is wearing Barbadian attire at a party where there's lots and lots of small talk happening, and drinks flowing, this seems like non-malicious small talk and a complete non-story. The phrase "your people" is dated and clunky, but we're talking about an 83-y/o lady here who has probably never even used the internet, let alone is up to date with modern standards of language.

People are far too easily offended. That for me is a bigger social problem than people being dicks.

[Poopadoop]

The old lady probably didn't do it to be an ass, but her behaviour was still inappropriate and offensive.

First, she reached out and moved the black woman's hair so she could see her nametag. In what universe do you go do that to someone you don't even know? Only in some colonial world of yore, not today's world.

Then, she hectored her for a good five minutes about "where she was from, where are her people from etc.." That's such an ignorant line to use on a POC, obviously. She wasn't satisifed with the answer "I'm from Britain," and the implication of continuing is to ask is that she's an outsider. That's the kind of question this woman has probably been asked all her life - and it must get old. The point is, it's not appropriate to keep after her after she already answered the question. The old lady should have accepted that and moved on.

In a vacuum it's not a crime against humanity to ask someone where they're from. But in the context of centuries of being treated like second-class citizens, it's pretty bad to make a whole issue out of it.