*** OFFICIAL BREXIT SUNLIT UPLANDS and #MEGA THREAD ***

[CoccoBill]

I like how your response to "incompetence" it what you guys refer to "whataboutism".

I mean, if you want to play that game, Europe is the worst performing continent per capita in the world. The UK's per capita fatality rate is not much higher than the EU in general, and lower than some EU countries, in particular Slovenia, Belgium and San Marino, with Italy and Czech right up there too. Furthermore, the UK is recording deaths as covid-related pretty liberally, if some reports are to be believed. For example, based on some quick dirty googling, there were 394 deaths in England between January and August 2020 due to... flu. Normally, around 17000 people die of flu per year in England. So I for one certainly believe there is manipulation of the figures. But this is speculative, I freely admit that.

There's politics at play with all this. Does anyone really believe someone sent a bomb to a vaccination centre? Or was the a convenient way for the pharma company to avoid talking to the EU? Yeah we want to talk, but soz, we have a security problem, maybe next week.

The EU doesn't want to see the UK economy recover before theirs, and we don't want to see their economy recover before ours. Who's the cat? Who's the mouse? Your guess is as good as mine.

The EU conspires to make UK not recover, the UK administration conspires by manipulating covid and flu data, AZ conspires against the EU...I wouldn't wanna live in your world lol.

Btw flu deaths are down globally, mainly because the same measures that we're doing to fight covid are also excellent against that.

There's 27 countries in the EU, 3 of which are doing worse than the UK, therefore UK is doing pretty great? Yeah that's an honest an unbiased assessment. Dude, your situation per capita is the worst on the planet.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavir...pickerSort=asc

[Poopadoop]

The EU conspires to make UK not recover, the UK administration conspires by manipulating covid and flu data, AZ conspires against the EU...I wouldn't wanna live in your world lol.

+1

[OngBonga]

Imagine thinking we have one of the worst gov'ts in the world at managing a pandemic when we also have one of the worst death rates in the world from said pandemic?

I like how you add the caveat "managing a pandemic". You didn't say that before. You simply said we had one of the worst governments in the world. Not even close.

They are both incompetent and corrupt. They are not mutually exclusive things, cf Donald Trump. There is a reason Boris is being called "Britain Trump."

No they're not mutually exclusive, but if you are capable of fooling the nation into think Dominic Cummings went to "test his eyesight" next to GSK two days before GSK announced a vaccine deal, while getting away with enormous corruption, I think that's highly competent. They might not be competent at doing what we the people expect them to do, but our expectations don't match reality.

Pointing out the hypocrisy of your position is not whataboutism

You completely imagined hypocrisy. This claim is based purely off me calling the EU "incompetent". I didn't say we're not at this stage. And since then I've clarified that I don't think our govt is incompetent, just very corrupt. You disagree, you say we're incompetent, which makes me a hypocrite. You do not argue in good faith, poop. I do. I might talk out of my arse, but I don't do what you're doing here. This is bad form. I am not a hypocrite simply for calling the EU incompetent. Banana got banned for this kind of debate.

Where is the incompetence? Seems like they're trying pretty hard to protect their citizens to me.

I'm calling them incompetent because they took three months longer than the UK to place their orders. And they still haven't cleared it for us yet. What do you call this if not incompetency? Pull your dick out of their arse for just a minute to ponder that. They're doing a shit job of protecting their citizens. Our govt is doing a shit job of that too. I just think in our case it's by design. Perhaps it is with the EU too, maybe they're highly competent and very corrupt too, perhaps this is all part of their plan to make more money.

You seem to have this idea they can either be clever and corrupt or incompetent and honest. The evidence is that they're both corrupt and incompetent.

They're competent because they get away with their corruption while maintaining a society that is wealthy enough to be happy. They are far from stupid. Incompetent governments get overthrown, or voted out.

Saying AZ sent themselves anthrax or w/e to avoid having to talk to the EU is tinfoil hat, cloud cuckoo land level fantasy. There is no evidence that is what happened. It doesn't even make sense.

It's more believable than someone actually taking the time to send a bomb or anthrax or whatever to a vaccination centre. If you're that kind of messed up, you pick a better fucking target than that. Such as the government.

[Poopadoop]

I like how you add the caveat "managing a pandemic". You didn't say that before.

Yeah actually I did. Try reading what I said before u answer.

[OngBonga]

Yeah actually I did. Try reading what I said before u answer.

You're right, well done. Mark your calendar.

[Poopadoop]

You're right, well done. Mark your calendar.

Nice apology there, btw.

[OngBonga]

Nice apology there, btw.

Apologise? lol I don't apologise just for making mistakes. I apologise if I make mistakes that I regret. Did I hurt your feelings? Why should I be sorry?

[Poopadoop]

if you are capable of fooling the nation into think Dominic Cummings went to "test his eyesight" next to GSK two days before GSK announced a vaccine deal,

1. They didn't fool anyone with that lie. That's a sign of incompetence if you can't even come up with a better fib than that.

2. lol at bolded

while getting away with enormous corruption, I think that's highly competent. They might not be competent at doing what we the people expect them to do, but our expectations don't match reality.

How do you imagine they've gotten away with it? There's not been a chance to hold them to account yet, the election's not for another three years.

You completely imagined hypocrisy. This claim is based purely off me calling the EU "incompetent". I didn't say we're not at this stage. And since then I've clarified that I don't think our govt is incompetent, just very corrupt. You disagree, you say we're incompetent, which makes me a hypocrite. I might talk out of my arse, but I don't do what you're doing here. This is bad form. I am not a hypocrite simply for calling the EU incompetent. Banana got banned for this kind of debate.

Fine, you're not a hypocrite, you're just biased.

Banana got banned for this kind of debate.

I thought he got banned for being a serial douchebag to everyone. At least the first five times.

Nice veiled threat there btw.

You do not argue in good faith, poop. I do.

I guess the above is your idea of arguing in good faith. Making a veiled threat that if someone keeps arguing with you, that they could be banned.

I'm calling them incompetent because they took three months longer than the UK to place their orders.

Source?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but three months seems like a bit of a stretch. All I could find is that they've ordered 5x as many doses overall as their population. Not sure how that compares to the UK.

And they still haven't cleared it for us yet.

For us? What are you talking about?

maybe they're highly competent and very corrupt too, perhaps this is all part of their plan to make more money.

Who's making all this money? How?

See, there's a problem here with how you connect the dots. You start from a conclusion and look for premises. The conclusion is: "They're all evil and corrupt and ready to let their citizens die to line their pockets." What you forget is that being in gov't is a nonstop opportunity to line your pockets. You don't have to kill your own citizens to do it, and give yourself a good chance of getting voted out.

They're competent because they get away with their corruption while maintaining a society that is wealthy enough to be happy. They are far from stupid. Incompetent governments get overthrown, or voted out.

No real democracy has been "overthrown." We'll see if Britain Trump manages to even make it to the next election as PM, never mind win it. The smart money says he's not going to finish the year as PM.

It's more believable than someone actually taking the time to send a bomb or anthrax or whatever to a vaccination centre. If you're that kind of messed up, you pick a better fucking target than that. Such as the government.

Uh, ok.

[Poopadoop]

And why are you breaking your own rule which was not to talk about banana? Or was it just the rest of us that rule applied to?

You really need to take a timeout, or at least stop and think before you start banging away at your keyboard.

[OngBonga]

Just a quick question and not something I want to start a discussion on for obvious reasons, but...

Who here thinks 9/11 was an "inside job" or whatever?

The reason I ask is because I think this is a defining moment in my life when it comes to "conspiracy theories". That changed the way I saw the world forever. From that moment, I never trusted government, never trusted the media, never trusted the system we live in. If they can do that, they can do anything. That showed me these people aren't made of the same emotions as I am. And this comes from someone who believes himself to be a sociopath. The world is run by psychopaths, not sociopaths.

But if you believe what they say about 9/11, I get why things like covid hoax seem ridiculous. You didn't have that moment where you lost all faith in the people who control our societies.

[CoccoBill]

Who here thinks 9/11 was an "inside job" or whatever?

I read a lot about it back in the day, watched Loose Change etc. I was convinced that the official narrative wasn't true, or at least not complete. However, the more I studied it, the less I believed the theories.

Was it an inside job, that is, organized by the US government? No, I do not believe so. Were they aware of what was going to happen and let it? I think to an extent that might be possible, they were warned quite specifically well in advance. Still, I'm not sure that's likely, however convenient it was for them with growing domestic issues and Dubya's falling approval. Were they grossly incompetent and unprepared? Hell yes.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Just a quick question and not something I want to start a discussion on for obvious reasons, but...

Who here thinks 9/11 was an "inside job" or whatever?

The reason I ask is because I think this is a defining moment in my life when it comes to "conspiracy theories". That changed the way I saw the world forever. From that moment, I never trusted government, never trusted the media, never trusted the system we live in. If they can do that, they can do anything. That showed me these people aren't made of the same emotions as I am. And this comes from someone who believes himself to be a sociopath. The world is run by psychopaths, not sociopaths.

But if you believe what they say about 9/11, I get why things like covid hoax seem ridiculous. You didn't have that moment where you lost all faith in the people who control our societies.

The difference is that you put away your science hat when you want to find a conspiracy.

I can't say with any certainty that 9/11 was not an inside job, but what you've put forward as evidence is easily shown to be the scientifically predictable outcome, given the circumstances. Passports and jet fuel... so easily shown to be spurious distractions from any real conspiracy. It has nothing to do with whether or not the terrorists were known about ahead of time or even put up to the task by someone inside the US.

Maybe it was a conspiracy, but ignoring the rational, scientific explanations for the things you find implausible is not healthy skepticism.

***
As for COVID.... there are freezer trucks in the alleyways behind hospital morgues and have been for most of the past year because the death rates are off the charts high. The US lost more people in the past year than we did during combat operations in WWII. Healthcare workers have vlogs on many platforms describing their daily interactions with fighting the pandemic. It's happening like this all over the world, and the chain of events that got us to this point are full of incontrovertible facts about death rates and viral spread.

Just WTF conspiracy are you on about? The entirety of the world's governments have finally come together in an act of unity to not stop the spread of a deadly pandemic? All those nations that would love nothing more than to lord over each other how they solved this problem and the infidels are only facing the wrath of God upon them?

I'm all about healthy skepticism, but there's a limit where it becomes unhealthy skepticism.