Quote Originally Posted by mojo
The vaccines are safe and effective. Literally all the data point to this.
Here's the thing... vaccinated people are much more likely to let their guard down. They are more likely to spread the virus because they think they are immune. If I get so much as a runny nose, I'm isolating and testing. So you can use words like "ass" but I don't think that's fair. I am not going to spread the virus because I know I am not vaccinated and am taking more precautions.

If you choose not to get vaccinated, then no, you shouldn't be allowed inside public places.
Why? Who is the vaccine protecting? What you're saying here is a punishment for not protecting myself. If the vaccine is safe and effective, then vaccinated people shouldn't care if I am or am not vaccinated.

From what I'm reading, vaccinated people who get covid are significantly less likely to suffer from a fever. That's not a good thing. Fever is a natural defence to a virus... it increases body temperature so the body can better fight the virus. If I get covid, I want a fever.

The vaccine is free and widely available and your right to control your body is fine, but it comes with consequences.
If these consequences are limited to the time when the virus is actually rampant, fine. But if these consequences are for life, this isn't fine. A mostly vaccinated population should end the pandemic, if it doesn't this is clear evidence the vaccination is ineffective.

FFS, you already have many vaccines.
Yes, I do. Vaccines that were tested for many years before I had them.. And vaccines I do not have to prove I have had to go to a festival.

The stupid politicization of the vaccine in today's world is asinine.
Blind faith in government and pharma is asinine to me. You can dismiss that by referring to "science" instead, but if you're telling me that the science says the vaccine is effective, yet the vaccine is not ending the pandemic despite the vast majority of the population being vaccinated, then you should be questioning the science. Why aren't you? That seems political too.

but when your method of assitude puts other people's lives at risk, then no, you can't go into crowded, indoor spaces to spread a respiratory disease.
I'm not putting other people's lives at risk, no more than anyone else is. Vaccinated people can spread the virus too. Vaccinated people won't be taking the same precautions I will be because they think they won't spread the virus.

If I do get the virus, chances are very high that I got it off a vaccinated person. Did that person put my life at risk? Are they an ass?

If I ignore symptoms and carry on mixing with the general population, then yes I am being an ass. But I wouldn't dream of doing such a thing.

People are dying. If you don't care, fine.
Of course I care. I have not told anyone not to have the vaccine. I am not an antivaxer shouting on twitter.

Don't argue that it's moral to not care about people dying, though.
I'm saying it's immoral to socially exclude people who don't have the vaccine, at least long term. Yes the pandemic is ongoing, so curtailed liberties at this time is not something I have a problem with. But it's a problem if these restrictions continue after the pandemic is over. And, like I said previously, if the vaccine does not end the pandemic, it is ineffective.