*** OFFICIAL BREXIT SUNLIT UPLANDS and #MEGA THREAD ***

[The Bean Counter]

Come on poop, that's bad analysis you linked. I'm not denying some kids live in hardship, but this is akin to the union rep I heard being angry about half the staff in the organisation earning less than the median. Obviously 30% ish earn less than 60% of the median. That's before we get into measurement technique, regional differences, etc.

Do we also need to talk about whether it's responsible to have 2+ kids when you don't earn a lot?

[Poopadoop]

Come on poop, that's bad analysis you linked.

Which one? Both of them are just counting, adding, and dividing numbers.

I'm not denying some kids live in hardship, but this is akin to the union rep I heard being angry about half the staff in the organisation earning less than the median. Obviously 30% ish earn less than 60% of the median. That's before we get into measurement technique, regional differences, etc.

It's not akin to that union rep argument at all. Every country has rich and poor. In the UK, the poor are poorer than in other countries. The rich, otoh, are doing about average compared to the rich in other countries.

Do we also need to talk about whether it's responsible to have 2+ kids when you don't earn a lot?

So some parents make "poor life decisions," (around 30% of the people in the country who have kids according to Ong). Even if you accept that argument, I still don't see why that means the kids should have to suffer. What poor life decisions have they made?

[The Bean Counter]

Which one? Both of them are just counting, adding, and dividing numbers.


It's not akin to that union rep argument at all. Every country has rich and poor. In the UK, the poor are poorer than in other countries. The rich, otoh, are doing about average compared to the rich in other countries.

The JRF link. It's dumb and it would be shocking if it was published and made it past peer review. Here's how the conversation should go:

Random: Bean, have a guess what % of children live in poverty in the UK? It's shocking.
Bean: how are you measuring poverty?
Random: It says here it's based on a household income of 60% of the UK median.
Bean: ok, so about 30%.
Random: wait, how did you know that?
Bean: 50% median * 60% = 30%. Your results might differ a little bit if households with higher incomes have fewer or a greater number of kids on average.
Random: ah, ok. But shocking isn't it?
Bean: no, it's just basic maths. It doesn't tell us anything.

So it's exactly the same as my union rep example.

I've seen other poverty studies which say the minimum standard is one holiday per year, otherwise it's poverty. Right, ok.

So some parents make "poor life decisions," (around 30% of the people in the country who have kids according to Ong). Even if you accept that argument, I still don't see why that means the kids should have to suffer. What poor life decisions have they made?

Agree kids shouldn't suffer obviously. I gather the estimate is 100,000 don't have one hot meal every single day. So a couple of %, which is still unacceptable. But, that's what free school meals are for and benefits, plus the social care system acts as some form of protection. I know a few people with kids unwilling to work that are all doing just fine on benefits. One of which prioritises themselves over their kids.

[Poopadoop]

How would you like them to define it? 60% of the median UK household income of £31.4k is <£19k. That's the maximum they can earn and be considered poor, the majority are earning still less. For a household. You think a house earning < £19k is not low income?


Here's how Canada defines poverty

Based on data from the 1992 Family Expenditures Survey, the average family spent 43% of its after-tax income on food, shelter and clothing. Statistics Canada added an additional 20% margin.

So if you spend 63% of your income on basics, you're considered poor in Canada. 6.4% of Canadians are in poverty by that metric.

Applying that to the UK, a person in a house earning £19k would have to spend at least £11970 a year, or ~£1k a month on food, rent, and clothes, to be considered poor. How many households spend <£1k a month on essentials? Even if you're living in a poor area, renting a 2bed flat is going to cost a few hundred a month. Eating costs money. Clothes cost money.