***OFFICIAL GOD DISCUSSION***

[oskar]

I'm going to talk evilution with Dawkins tonight @ a University in my area.

What question should I ask?

When we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?




<- not gonna join the discussion

But this guy needs more love, so I'll post:
http://www.youtube.com/my_subscripti...asthead=1&as=1

[Warpe]

I'm going to talk evilution with Dawkins tonight @ a University in my area.

What question should I ask?

He gave a great interview today on CBC Radio. Will link when I find it.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Alright i haven't read much of this thread but i have been thinking about this a lot. First to understand where i come from you need to understand my background:

I grew up in a small town in Iowa called Fairfield, which is the home of a "cult" (i call it cult only for lack of a better word) called the spiritual regenerating movement, although its rarely referred to that anymore. Both my parents practice Transcendental Meditation, which is basically what makes one a part of this cult. And that's about it. I learned when i was 9 and my entire education--elementary school, middle school and highschool--was learned at a school that, although was an accredited school that taught the normal subjects, revolved around TM and other teachings from the Guru Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. You may recognize this name, he taught many famous people TM including the beatles and recently passed away.

This was my childhood teaching about God in brief. 1) God exists 2) TM helps you become one with the silence inside of you, which connects you with god 3) If you practice TM you will become enlightened, one with the universe.

Here's what i learned about death. 1) Souls go through millions of lifetimes, when you die you are reincarnated into another person or animal 2) Souls have loads of "Karma" that is slowly worked off through each of your lives 3) Once you become enlightened, when you die you will continue to live on as part of the universe but will not come back.

Not until recently have i mostly broken away from TM. Just to clarify, there are actually scientific studies that show health benefits of Transcendental Meditation, including lower blood pressure and longer lives. It's also been effective in helping children with ADD and middle and highschool students in general. Most people who practice are good people who will not pressure you one bit into trying it and have no pressure themselves to try it. Some people Love it. Even I still like doing it once in a while, but i do not believe anymore that i will work off any karma or become enlightened from it.

I think the subject of God is pretty straightforward. I'm pretty sure God as seen through the bible or old testament does not exist. Most of the stories in those religious texts are either copies of prior texts or just plain fiction (and from what i've read, probably jesus christ is included in this). God hasn't talked to anyone in thousands of years and in these days if someone claimed that they'd probably be institutionalized. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to believe that god exists besides in these religions passed down from thousands of years ago and they're all looking more and more like bullshit.

I think a lot of this has come from people's fear of death. I too, still can't help to wonder and be afraid. But as i think about it, i realize, do i even want to live forever? I mean heaven claims ill be happy for the rest of my "life" but life is so long i think that by the time im 80 i'm going to feel alright about being done. There's an old philosopher (i've forgotten his name) Who said that there's no connection between life and death. When you die you won't be conscious, you won't feel anything, there will be nothing. You won't know that you are dead, you won't experience dead. I think he's pretty right on.

Although i don't believe in god, I do believe there's some point. I understand that there are scientific reasons for why everything is the way it is (The only thing truly atheist i've read is the God Delusion but it seemed pretty informative). But even with that, there are still things that have no explanation. Ok, so the big bang was very improbable but everything that can happen will happen, but why is there probability to begin with? Why is there anything and everything? I just have a really hard time accepting that we could actually be that insignificant and that there is no reason for any of this.

Final Thought:
One day you wake up and start looking around. And for some reason you accept that everything is the way it is and makes sense. Isn't that just kind of crazy!? Like, what the fuck is a form we call a human being, or vision, or a thought. It's amazing to think that thousands of years ago we basically knew nothing about the us, the planet, and the universe and now we're uncovering so much about how everything works. I wonder if science will soon lead us to a spiritual truth (maybe it already has).

Not surprisingly, I pretty much agree with this whole post.

I am not that educated in Eastern Religion, but it was explained to me that a form of Buddhists called Theravada do not believe in the supernatural. I always thought that was a very interesting way to look at the idea of God. My opinion is that God as portrayed in the old testament or pretty much any other religious scripture doesnt makes any sort of sense. I do, however, believe in the idea of Natural Law (Which imo, is pretty divine and amazing), which to my understanding is some peoples idea of what God is. I do not believe that if you put a bagel in a revolving toaster a chicken is going to come out the other end. But, it seems like a lot of people believe there are "miracles" which are performed by God to teach us something or whatever. When, in fact, these miracles are no more than statistically probable occurrences.

[IowaSkinsFan]

i have no argument to be debunked. god is but a word. a word that has many definitions. (haha! on a side note i went to dictionary.com and typed in god, and it returned No results found for god. game set and match, there is no god!) many of these definitions are warped and twisted and wrong. it is because god can never be defined, it can't be comprehended. i guess that may mean it is meaningless in some sense, but only for our labels, our language, our understanding. it's the warped explanations and unrealistic interpretations of god that are meaningless. god itself simply just is (and isn't, i guess).

i didn't mean to quote einstein or anything, just that some people refer to the mysteries of nature as the "einsteinian god" because he used the word god sometimes but was clearly an atheist.

right, any beginning as we understand it, needs time. so therefore there can never be a start to time, it's just impossible and unimaginable. so any god is impossible and unimaginable if you buy into the "always is and always was" cop out. we need to think in terms of time, because we live in a dimension of time. thinking without time just doesn't make sense to us.

people find "god" because they are looking for something to label as "god". miracles, phenomenons, whatever acts of god are only acts of god in the eyes of the perceiver. if the acts really were caused by god is a scientific question just as the question of god's existence. if god does exist and has the power to intervene he sure doesn't do it in any logical way that makes sense to us.

science explains our natural world better than anything else and it's not even close. when it can't answer questions, people look in very strange places and will believe downright silly things to fill the void. i do believe that our progress and intelligence is definitely being hindered by the plague of organized religion trying to explain things that science can not. people are so afraid of doubt and unknown... but we need to embrace doubt.

Soooooooo agree with this.

[BankItDrew]

[littleogre]

Could god make an apple so big that he couldn't eat it?


The fact that humans spend so much time and energy rationalizing about god is testament to how irrational we really are. This is because god is itself an unquantified paradox, and most of us continually disregard this. Many atheists and advocates of critical thinking like to say that god could exist, but because there is no evidence then belief is irrational. While this is sorta true, it is ultimately false.

The truth is that god is simply not even possible. The only way in which god would be able to exist is if anything and everything and nothing all exist together, separately, and the opposite simultaneously and never. This is because god itself is a fallacy. This fallacy is evident in many ways. The first line of the post, the impossibility of omniscience or omnipotence, and infinite regression* are just a few of the myriads of examples of why god cannot exist.

*Infinite regression is a conundrum created by thinking that existence was created. What created the creator? What created the creator's creator? What created the creator's creator's creator? Etc

IT would not be that difficult for him to be omniscient if he lived in the 10th dimension. Anybody living in the 10th dimension would know all things at all times.

[wufwugy]

Could god make an apple so big that he couldn't eat it?


The fact that humans spend so much time and energy rationalizing about god is testament to how irrational we really are. This is because god is itself an unquantified paradox, and most of us continually disregard this. Many atheists and advocates of critical thinking like to say that god could exist, but because there is no evidence then belief is irrational. While this is sorta true, it is ultimately false.

The truth is that god is simply not even possible. The only way in which god would be able to exist is if anything and everything and nothing all exist together, separately, and the opposite simultaneously and never. This is because god itself is a fallacy. This fallacy is evident in many ways. The first line of the post, the impossibility of omniscience or omnipotence, and infinite regression* are just a few of the myriads of examples of why god cannot exist.

*Infinite regression is a conundrum created by thinking that existence was created. What created the creator? What created the creator's creator? What created the creator's creator's creator? Etc

IT would not be that difficult for him to be omniscient if he lived in the 10th dimension. Anybody living in the 10th dimension would know all things at all times.

If you're being serious, elaborate

[Outlaw]

I'm going to talk evilution with Dawkins tonight @ a University in my area.

What question should I ask?

When we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?




<- not gonna join the discussion

But this guy needs more love, so I'll post:
http://www.youtube.com/my_subscripti...asthead=1&as=1

And his answer will be:

We didn't evolve from monkeys. We simply have a common ancestor with all other creatures; most recently with other primates.

All living creatures were once the same creature at different points during the last 3,500 million years.

The most basic necessary traits evolve the slowest. Eyes, ears, noses, etc. The function of them are surprisingly similar even among creatures that have a common ancestor dating back hundreds of millions of years.

etc etc etc, get ready to be put to sleep lol

[mrhappy333]

Side note, I love those people that post God stuff on their Facebook page.

[boost]

Side note, I love those people that post God stuff on their Facebook page.

ya srsly.. this needs to stop.

[Lukie]

I'm going to talk evilution with Dawkins tonight @ a University in my area.

What question should I ask?

When we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?




<- not gonna join the discussion

But this guy needs more love, so I'll post:
http://www.youtube.com/my_subscripti...asthead=1&as=1

And his answer will be:

We didn't evolve from monkeys. We simply have a common ancestor with all other creatures; most recently with other primates.

All living creatures were once the same creature at different points during the last 3,500 million years.

The most basic necessary traits evolve the slowest. Eyes, ears, noses, etc. The function of them are surprisingly similar even among creatures that have a common ancestor dating back hundreds of millions of years.

etc etc etc, get ready to be put to sleep lol

It's so sad that in 2009 we still have to debate the merits of evolution.

The saturation of evidence needed to end that discussion was probably met over 100 years ago.

[sarbox68]

Lemme see if I can combine the two central themes of this thread...

I wanted a nice house to live in so I prayed and god gave me an interest only 103% 1/3 no-doc ARM with no money down.

I found a nicer house than I could afford, so I prayed and god gave me the idea to fudge my income and tell the nice bank people that I consisently earned 3x more than I actually did.

I got my house and wanted to celebrate with a vacation, so I prayed and god sent me an offer for a no doc, no appraisal HELOC that would let me take 6 months of appreciation out and go on a nice trip.

I got back from vacation and realized that my house wasn't worth what I paid for it anymore, so god let me just give it back to the nice bank people and let someone else worry about paying back all those profits that went to the original seller.

God sure is good.

Back from 2 months in country. Apparently lots happens around here...

[a500lbgorilla]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMwZ7...eature=popular

[boost]

So Ive never watched glen beck before, and now Im really perplexed. The show isnt even marginally entertaining... I wish religion would just go away... srsly.. gtfo.

[sarbox68]

Ah yes, those good ol' god centered days... when negroes weren't uppity, the lynching was easy, women knew their place, and there was no shortage of nice, big wars for us to prove our righteousness in...

[wufwugy]

So Ive never watched glen beck before, and now Im really perplexed. The show isnt even marginally entertaining... I wish religion would just go away... srsly.. gtfo.

This is the perfect parody of beck, and is really the only thing you need to know

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4NMoyarAM4

[wufwugy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMwZ76QB7uk&feature=popular

Thunderf00t's debate with Ray Comfort was one of the hardest things I've watched lately.

[a500lbgorilla]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMwZ76QB7uk&feature=popular

Thunderf00t's debate with Ray Comfort was one of the hardest things I've watched lately.

Agreed, but Thunderf00t came to understand and Comfort came to preach/explain. Thunderf00t was just destined to tie for the people who like to pointlessly keep score.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I like Glenn Beck, he's both insane and reports a view point i never ever would consider or contemplate.

[a500lbgorilla]

I used to like his radio program because he was much less insane back in the day.

[Monsieur_chat]

Also, Jesus isn't special. Lots of religious figures rose from the dead, healed the sick, etc

Yes. In fact numerous parallels can be found between Jesus and: Dionysus / Bacchus, Horus / Osiris, Mithras, Krishna, Zoroaster, Attis etc etc. None of whom existed of course.

Also, as boost points out there are almost ENDLESS holes in every account of the birth of jesus - We know from other sources that the Quirinius mentioned in the gospel was governor of the provinces of Syria and Judea. There is no evidence of an Augustan census at the time of Jesus' birth. Josephus records a supposed census in AD 6/7 and yet both Luke and Matthew link the birth to the reign of Herod the great who died 10 years BEFORE the supposed census of 6/7AD. The old testament prophecies suggest the Messiah will be born in the town of David (Bethlehem) but the gospel of John suggests he was neither born there or descended from King David. When you consider this with the fact that Jesus' parents were both from Nazareth (so wtf are they doing in Bethlehem) the census starts to look like a crude means of getting the birth to the right place to fulfill these prophecies. The whole thing is one big jumble of fabrications which simply don't add up.

Also, a point that Christopher Hitchens has made at length, the notion of Jesus being some sort of teacher, guru etc whose teachings have been subverted by the church simply doesn't really work. EITHER he was actually the son of God, OR he was a man who claimed to be the son of God. Now if we're going to agree that he wasn't the former then he was the latter and if I went around saying i was the son of God and making some of the claims which he did (remember hell is never mentioned in the old testament, it's only the lamb of god who brings us that one) then I would be locked up in a padded cell.

[JKDS]

you guys are all going to hell, just fyi

[boost]

Also, a point that Christopher Hitchens has made at length, the notion of Jesus being some sort of teacher, guru etc whose teachings have been subverted by the church simply doesn't really work. EITHER he was actually the son of God, OR he was a man who claimed to be the son of God. Now if we're going to agree that he wasn't the former then he was the latter and if I went around saying i was the son of God and making some of the claims which he did (remember hell is never mentioned in the old testament, it's only the lamb of god who brings us that one) then I would be locked up in a padded cell.

I dont really understand the point being made here. It seems we could assume that people were a lot more open to believing in a messiah that walked the earth back then. Of course I agree with you that the whole thing is pretty silly, but unless Im missing your point (Christopher Hitchens' point) I dont really see how this helps to put doubt on the whole Jay Man thing..

[Robb]

iopq got banned - there MUST be a god

srsly

[Monsieur_chat]

Boost, I think the point Hitchens is making isn't designed as a means of proving Jesus didn't exist directly. Instead I think it's an attack on those people, Christian or otherwise, who realize that he cannot have performed miracles but don't want to thus admit he didn't live, as this would entirely undermine their faith. So they say he was just a man with a noble message and just because the bible shouldn't be taken literally that doesn't make it useless (personally I think it does).

I think Hitchens is saying you can't have your cake and eat it. EITHER he was the son of god, which you know is an impossible position to argue OR he was a madman, there's no middle ground. Either the bible is watertight basis for your belief or you can have none and whatever moral guidance you think it affords you is actually an innate product of your humanity.

[CoccoBill]

Personally I think everyone claiming you need to have faith to have morals should be locked up for good. If the only reason that person doesn't rape, kill and steal is because some old story book says he shouldn't, he's not safe to let run free.


"What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!"
Pope Leo X

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."
Thomas Jefferson

"I do not believe that any type of religion should ever be introduced into the public schools of the United States."
Thomas Edison

"Although I cannot believe that the individual survives the death of his body, feeble souls harbor such thought through fear or ridiculous egotism."
Albert Einstein

"The more the fruits of knowledge become accessible to men, the more widespread is the decline of religious belief."
Sigmund Freud

"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurences it cannot understand."
Karl Marx

"There once was a time when all people beleived in God and the church ruled. This time was called the Dark Ages."
Richard Lederer

"Reason should be destroyed in all Christians."
Martin Luther

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."
Napoleon Bonaparte

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so"
Adolf Hitler

[wufwugy]

there is no god

[wufwugy]

but religion helps people. its not all bad. theres nothing wrong with the message

http://news.aol.com/article/praying-...n-death/599327

[givememyleg]

there is no god

haha!

[Jack Sawyer]

there is no god

my god he's her dad?


does this mean he'll be my father-in-law?

[Jack Sawyer]

but religion helps people. its not all bad. theres nothing wrong with the message

http://news.aol.com/article/praying-...n-death/599327

Take the poll!
Do you think prayer is an effective way to treat medical illness?
No 81%
Yes 19%

[boost]

I thought when I watched dawkin's lectures and my penis would twitch it was simply me being highly stimulated by his awesomeness, no homo ofc. But now I understand the reaction completely..

[Ash256]

I thought when I watched dawkin's lectures and my penis would twitch it was simply me being highly stimulated by his awesomeness, no homo ofc. But now I understand the reaction completely..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zdyJkKA5L4

[boost]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EphcacBt-Mk&NR=1

the man has spoken.

[bigred]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVc2ymSfGOU

[bigred]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVc2ymSfGOU

Best part of this video is "Jesus died with an lol? More like a sad face"

[boost]

oh man, that vid is awesome. People who were offended by the name saying "FUCK YOU JESUS" roooooooofl...

[Jack Sawyer]

Even our count of years is expressed in B.C. and A.D. It's obvious that whomever played the religious role has worked hard, particularly when society was not very smart (you know, earth is flat etc.) to ingrain itself (themselves?) into society.

I particularly like how to see how religious people are in South America, and you have to go back to the age of the conquistadors to understand why.

As people get smarter, questions start to flow. Its the same in the life of a kid, being told that Santa is real and then finding out what's what on its own once it realizes that that 1+1 is not equaling 2.

[BooG690]

http://www.break.com/movie-trailers/...d-trailer.html

[wufwugy]

Priest dies trying to walk on water

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/1578...-walk-on-water

A priest has died after trying to demonstrate how Jesus walked on water.

Evangelist preacher Franck Kabele, 35, told his congregation he could repeat the biblical miracle.

But he drowned after walking out to sea from a beach in the capital Libreville in Gabon, west Africa.

One eyewitness said: “He told churchgoers he’d had a revelation that if he had enough faith, he could walk on water like Jesus.

“He took his congregation to the beach saying he would walk across the Komo estuary, which takes 20 minutes by boat.

“He walked into the water, which soon passed over his head and he never came back.”

[boost]

hahaha.. at what point do you think he was like "shit, this is absolutely not going to work, but my credibility is ruined if I turn back! Damned if I do.. damned if I dont.."

btw this reminds me of the simpsons episode where moe goes back to bartending school to get advice from his prof who in the end of the scene commits suicide by walking into a lake.

[wufwugy]

at least i have some respect for the guy

just like with christian scientists. at least they take their faith seriously, and do what the bible tells them to. of course their prayers do nothing and they die of preventable medical conditions, but at least they actually believe what they say

if all religious people actually believed their shit we would find a rather sudden lack of religious people because they'd all be like wtf this is crazy

[boost]

.. or dead.

[boost]

[sarbox68]

[bigred]

LOL WIN

[boost]

LOL WIN

ya.. I was like "meh pretty run of the mill analogy trying to be funny" then I read the last line about the mormons and was like "lawlz"

[flomo]

does atheism come with an afterlife?

[BooG690]

Christianity is the belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...yeah, makes perfect sense.

Found that comment on a Youtube video...thought I'd share.

[flomo]

if there is no afterlife, why are we here?

[BennyLaRue]

if there is no afterlife, why are we here?

To rock?

[StillDeadMoney]

[kingnat]

i really hate God today.

[JKDS]

if there is no afterlife, why are we here?

Hrm, interesting arguement. It seems obvious that there is only one logical thing to do now.

[kingnat]

if there is no afterlife, why are we here?

Random fluctuation

[boost]

if there is no afterlife, why are we here?

if there is an afterlife, why are we here?

[givememyleg]

i really hate God today.

Your fb comments remind me of a situation with my marriage. My wife (used to) attend a bible study and this guy, I'll call him shitforbrains guided it. He found out we were engaged and instead of the congratulations, love and prayers that everything would work out, he asked to meet her. He slammed the idea of us getting married for an hour, said how wrong it was since I was a non-believer, said it was wrong we were living together before hand, it wouldn't work out, etc. However, he was passing no judgement, he just was doing God's work.

[wufwugy]

Is it just me or is JKDS becoming the new bigred

[kingnat]

i really hate God today.

Your fb comments remind me of a situation with my marriage. My wife (used to) attend a bible study and this guy, I'll call him shitforbrains guided it. He found out we were engaged and instead of the congratulations, love and prayers that everything would work out, he asked to meet her. He slammed the idea of us getting married for an hour, said how wrong it was since I was a non-believer, said it was wrong we were living together before hand, it wouldn't work out, etc. However, he was passing no judgement, he just was doing God's work.

Yeah... i thought i could bury my emotional anger in a intellectual discussion... However, i made the tragic error of thinking that fundies could possible use logic.. wtf was i thinking. also I LOL'd had at "I'll call him shitforbrains".

Thanks for stating what i instantly wanted to say today... what fucking morons. hi5 gmml.

[givememyleg]

where can i get my objective thinking cloak?!?!

[kingnat]

So in an epic discussion on the book of faces... I had someone who i met in grad school state the following: "I conclude that both the words and context of Old and New Testament references to homosexuality clearly define it as objectively immoral."

I responded to this with: "I entered into this looking for rational conversation, by claiming that the Bible is able to make "objective" statements about anything tells me it's not worth continuing. It's clear you don't know the philosophical defintion of objectivity let alone a scientific one. I hope for the sake of science you have some sort of cloak or hat that you don that allows for truly objective thinking and argumentation when it comes to your work."

It's rampant with errors becuase I was posting it on my iPod while giving my kid a bath... but am I just a massive dick? or is my point valid? (or both?)

[wufwugy]

that's fine

You know you live in a fucked up world when people who justify bigotry and subsequent suffering are not only provided with the means to perpetuate their stupidity and hate, but are regularly looked upon as having the moral high ground and being persecuted

My response would likely have been 'You do realize that you're rationalizing that a harmless alternative lifestyle and genetic disposition is wrong, and that position perpetuates oppression and suffering? Please go jump off a fucking bridge you worthless cunt."

[kingnat]

that's fine

You know you live in a fucked up world when people who justify bigotry and subsequent suffering are not only provided with the means to perpetuate their stupidity and hate, but are regularly looked upon as having the moral high ground and being persecuted

My response would likely have been 'You do realize that you're rationalizing that a harmless alternative lifestyle and genetic disposition is wrong, and that position perpetuates oppression and suffering? Please go jump off a fucking bridge you worthless cunt."

Ah.. this is brilliant! Tks wuf.

[givememyleg]

they're the massive dick

[Warpe]

[boost]

"Invisible Man tell man, "ur in mai Earth, pwnzorz mai animulz"

ROFL

[Gobbatino]

This kinda scares me, tbh.

I grew up in Guatemala, which is a very religious (Catholic/Evangelic) country due to heavy Spanish influence after it was conquered. I was raised as pretty much a fundie, weekly church, 12 years of Bible class in school, etc until I started questioning shit and thankfully grew out of it. But the brainwashing/indoctrination took over 16 years of my life to get over and frankly, that pisses me off. I've been enjoying the last 4+ years in much more secular Europe a lot in that respect.

Now, due to work, I'll be moving to the states and this seriously worries me, I mean, how bad is it, really? After spending 21 years of my life with religion coming out of my every orifice, my patience for religion is really thin. Granted, I'll be going to California, so at least it isn't Utah or Texas but still... After living in a wonderfully Jeebus-free Paris, I really hope I won't have half the people trying to shove religion down my throat. Then again, it might not be quite that bad, I've never lived in the states so I might be overreacting.

Like someone said earlier on here, I really just can't be bothered anymore. Neither attempting to help them out of their delusion nor having to defend my lack of belief in sky daddy because hey, not believing is as much a belief as theirs, amairait?

Anyone know what it's like in southern Cali? LA area?

[givememyleg]

Just say no and you'll be fine.

[boost]

You really will be fine in the LA area... its like the poster child for a godless city. Also I really dont think the US is that bad, pretty much every latin american country is far worse Im sure. However in the US we are split, so you have people being pushed to extremes to try to not lose ground. Since there is not this religious vs secular split in latin american countries, most of the people are simply passive believers, and religion is not such an issue on the political stage. However if you openly discussed athiest view points in latin america Im sure you would not get very far, yet here its not that out of the ordinary for people to be agnostic or athiest.

[wufwugy]

US is difficult to compare to other regions; it truly is 'the melting pot'. Loads of religions, each religion has large dynamics, and the fact that we're very large, diverse, entitlement mentality, general malaise and cognitive dissonance, and a first-world country makes the religions really weird.

It's not something you should have much problem with though. The fundamentalism often generates itself in indirect ways, and its those things that become unfortunate. For example: I've heard that it's not because of the religion directly that Utah sucks, but because the religion doesn't do anything to fix or progress the community

FWIW, I think atheists are the biggest minority in US, as well.

Also, something to keep in mind, where you're from, religion and community means something; around here, they tend to not. We have a whole bunch of XINOs (xtian in name only) who aren't much different than us pagans.

[boost]

except the "xinos" can be guilted into voting for 'god'

[sniderstyle]

I'm an athiest. My friend was tyring to convert me today. Christians have a way of being really condescending and arrogant. It's really annoying. But he went with the typical attack.

1. I've never felt so fulfilled in my entire life since I've had Christ in my life. It brings a level of contentness that you'll never imagine.

My reponse was: I attempted to have a personal connection with God when I was younger but there was never anything there. If I don't have that personal expereince, then for me to be convinced, I would need concrete evidence.

He then said, the bible was written by several people thousands of miles apart. How did they happen to all write the same thing?
I said, wlel thats not true. But even if it were true , I've looked at the evidence in depth already and there is not one piece of evidence that overhwelmingly points to the existance of God, espeically a God that is active in everyday life.

So then he went with the , but what if youre wrong? You're a poker player. Even if theres a 1 1,000,000,00,000 chance that you're oging to burn in hell for all eternity, wouldnt you take it?
My response was, Why would I want to worship a God that has condemned 70% of the population to eternal damnation.Trillions of people if you count over the centuries, and centuries to come. Condemned all the souls because they didn't believe in a mythical story that happened thousands of years ago without any proof.

I finally said, there's nothing you can say that convince me to believe in God. But I do appreciate you attempting to convince me. I knwo if I were a Christian and I really believed that my friend was going to burn in hell. I would do my damdnest to try and convert him.

Everyone who hates annoying proselytizing Christians have it wrong. They're hearts are in the right place but they don't realize they come off as douches.

But don't worry. He said he'd pray for God to show me concrete evidence. Looking forward to that.

[BooG690]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FARD...eature=related

[wufwugy]

the physiology of the universe

[boost]

japan is in europe?