*** The Official MAGAposting thread ***

[spoonitnow]

lol

[BananaStand]

FBI Agents working on the highest profile case at the time [Clinton's Emails] engaged in tens of thousands of text messages proclaiming their political bias toward the very subject of their investigation.

They did this on government owned phones, on which they have no expectation of privacy.

Is the above fact an indication of:

A) Monumental stupidity on behalf of two separate agents working at the highest level of law enforcement.

B) Evidence of a broad and pervasive culture within the executive branch that embraces a certain political ideology and despises another. (aka...Deep State)

[forkitnow]

Trump’s new dystopian plot: Only the deserving poor get Medicaid

Five states want to impose time limits on Medicaid coverage, a classic example of pointless Trumpian cruelty

The Trump administration has reportedly turned its attention to another critical aspect of Medicaid, the government health insurance program for low-income people: Its guarantee of lifetime coverage. The same federal waiver requests that allowed the states of Kentucky and Indiana to end Medicaid coverage for able-bodied enrollees (for which 10 additional states have reportedly now applied) could also impose time limits on Medicaid coverage.

Five states — Arizona, Kansas, Utah, Maine and Wisconsin — are requesting federal waivers that will permit time limits on lifetime Medicaid enrollees, according to a McClatchy DC report. The Department of Health and Human Services did not respond to a request for comment, according to the report.

Disenfranchised groups will be heavily targeted by these changes, and that shows the degree of racist, sexist and classist targeting of the oppressed that the Drumpf so-called administration is trying to pull here.

[wufwugy]

I'm not sure if I agree with Trump's strategy of growing the economy out of the deficit. We badly need spending reform. I suspect Trump (and other politicians for that matter) don't take it on because they don't believe the votes are there. And if they did it even if the votes are there in congress, the voters, like fat slobs who don't wanna go on a diet to keep them from having a heart attack, would just vote those politicians out in the next cycle.

[wufwugy]

Tax cuts as stimulus are misguided in the first place. Stimulus is caused by monetary policy. It is probable that the Trump administration does not understand this since the largest subset of economists have the wrong view on what is aggregate demand/income

[BananaStand]

We badly need spending reform.

What show are you watching??

The republicans absolutely railed against Obama for blowing up the debt and having trillion dollar deficits. Then, this week, the Republicans passed a government budget that spends even more.

I've seen a number of republican congressman interviewed on various cable news platforms over the last couple of days. They were all asked about that inconsistency. Why complain about spending, and then spend your balls off?

The answer was that they didn't have much of a choice. They absolutely had to increase military spending. Previous administrations had practiced policies of "containment" to kick the can down the road regarding Iran and North Korea. It's likely that the can can't be kicked any further. Military readiness is important.

to counter that, I have seen every single one of these congress members claim that the next step is entitlement reform. That and the economic growth will offset the extra military spending.

So it sounds like they're doing exactly what you're asking for wuf. It sounds like a solid plan to me. Let's see if they execute

[Poopadoop]

Ok let's do some forensic analysis here:

What show are you watching??

The republicans absolutely railed against Obama for blowing up the debt and having trillion dollar deficits. Then, this week, the Republicans passed a government budget that spends even more.

I've seen a number of republican congressman interviewed on various cable news platforms over the last couple of days. They were all asked about that inconsistency. Why complain about spending, and then spend your balls off?

The answer was that they didn't have much of a choice. They absolutely had to increase military spending. Previous administrations had practiced policies of "containment" to kick the can down the road regarding Iran and North Korea. It's likely that the can can't be kicked any further. Military readiness is important.

to counter that, I have seen every single one of these congress members claim that the next step is entitlement reform. That and the economic growth will offset the extra military spending.

So it sounds like they're doing exactly what you're asking for wuf. It sounds like a solid plan to me. Let's see if they execute

Here's an early quote from banana taken more or less at random, with the stipulation that it had enough words to analyse.

1. Begins with a display of open shock at the other person's position, expressed in an obnoxious way - check.

2. Continues with a defense of R behaviour - check.

3. Signs of being politically aware of what's going on - check.

4. Fine spelling and grammar - check.

5. Manages to get through an entire post without being openly abusive - check.

Note the large amount of similarity in style between this and posts made by 'Thespoonald'

[wufwugy]

It is a good point since I might be taking Trump too literally, which is not something you want to do. He probably wouldn't talk much about spending reform while doing it, because of how unpopular it is.

The GOP talks a lot about spending reform yet do little.


A funny thing is right now I'm seeing two totally different numbers on the recent spending. A super anti-Trump economist that I really like even though he's a retard on Trump thinks the data is that Trump and the GOP have increased spending by a significant portion. But other data is saying it was only by a tiny amount. I'm gonna lol if this economist is wrong. His hatred of Trump blinds him, would be nice to get a pristine example like this.

[wufwugy]

I usually get staggered when I see such blatant terribleness from the mainstream media, but then I remember that the mainstream media have for many decades been apologists for communism. I guess what staggers me is how apologetics for communism is even a thing.

[spoonitnow]

I usually get staggered when I see such blatant terribleness from the mainstream media, but then I remember that the mainstream media have for many decades been apologists for communism. I guess what staggers me is how apologetics for communism is even a thing.

Hey bro, sorry for that nine-figure death toll.

[OngBonga]

Hey bro, sorry for that nine-figure death toll.

At the risk of being controversial, is this such a bad thing? 9 figures? Imgaine if it didn't happen, imagine if all those people and their descendants were still alive. Less resources to go around.

Cheers, communism.

[BananaStand]

At the risk of being controversial, is this such a bad thing? 9 figures? Imgaine if it didn't happen, imagine if all those people and their descendants were still alive. Less resources to go around.

Cheers, communism.

That's not controversial. It's outright stupid.

First of all, how do you know their descendants weren't already born, and thus are still alive?

Second, if you think genocide is a viable solution to over-population, I'm shocked. Surely you realize that if this were enacted as a real policy, a 40 year old, barely employed, spliff addict is probably one of the first to go.

And third, it's not even debatable that every single socioeconomic and geopolitical problem that exists is tied to overpopulation. If we still had this near-billion people and their descendants walking around today, then we would be even closer to the critical turning point where we as a species have to take drastic action to reduce population and extend the longevity of this planet. Instead, we're farther away. So no measures are being taken. More pollution, more population growth, more poverty allowed to continue unchecked for an extra century or two.

[spoonitnow]

At the risk of being controversial, is this such a bad thing? 9 figures? Imgaine if it didn't happen, imagine if all those people and their descendants were still alive. Less resources to go around.

Cheers, communism.

I knew you were joking, but I understand BananaStand's response because I've seen people on several occasions be 100 percent serious about this exact same line of thought.

[BananaStand]

I usually get staggered when I see such blatant terribleness from the mainstream media, but then I remember that the mainstream media have for many decades been apologists for communism. I guess what staggers me is how apologetics for communism is even a thing.

I'm more than staggered. I cannot believe that the anti-Trump derangement has reached this point. Everyone with an IQ of 30 or higher knows that North Korea is obscenely evil. Every president since forever has known that NoKo is a vile and contemptible enemy guilty of egregious human rights abuses and oppression.

Now that Trump is standing up to them.....suddenly NoKo is just another country.

Lester Holt's recent pre-olympic visit was absolutely DISGUSTING. Did anybody else see this? He went to a NoKo ski resort and gave gushing reports about how happy the people there were. He extolled the economic freedoms that allowed these people such recreational outlets.

Except it was fake. That ski resort has been abandoned for years. The whole thing was staged to fool Lester Holt. And he fell for it.

The funniest part, is that NoKo didn't even try that hard. Every one of the skiers was dressed in the same jacket.

I'm also pretty disgusted at all the favorable headlines surrounding Kim's sister at the Olympics.

[wufwugy]

But Muh Not Real Communism

[spoonitnow]

But Muh Not Real Communism

[OngBonga]

You took that a little too seriously banana. Have yourself your morning coffee first.

[BananaStand]

“Kim Jong Un’s sister is stealing the show at the winter Olympics”

“The ‘Ivanka Trump of North Korea’ captivates people in the South at the Olympics”

“North Korea’s cheerleaders steal spotlight at Winter Games with synchronized chants”

“North Korea is winning the Olympics—and it’s not because of sports”

^ All real headlines from US news sources over the weekend.

Guaranteed that NoKo uses these for its own oppressive propaganda at home. Nice job Washington Post.

[spoonitnow]

“Kim Jong Un’s sister is stealing the show at the winter Olympics”

“The ‘Ivanka Trump of North Korea’ captivates people in the South at the Olympics”

“North Korea’s cheerleaders steal spotlight at Winter Games with synchronized chants”

“North Korea is winning the Olympics—and it’s not because of sports”

^ All real headlines from US news sources over the weekend.

Guaranteed that NoKo uses these for its own oppressive propaganda at home. Nice job Washington Post.

Yeah it's pretty absurd.

[wufwugy]

“Kim Jong Un’s sister is stealing the show at the winter Olympics”

“The ‘Ivanka Trump of North Korea’ captivates people in the South at the Olympics”

“North Korea’s cheerleaders steal spotlight at Winter Games with synchronized chants”

“North Korea is winning the Olympics—and it’s not because of sports”

^ All real headlines from US news sources over the weekend.

Guaranteed that NoKo uses these for its own oppressive propaganda at home. Nice job Washington Post.

The mainstream media has been doing this for decades. They loved Stalin, they loved Castro. It's just astounding.

I've been trying to figure out why mainstream media tends toward Marxism. I think it has to do with the type of person who gravitates towards media. It's the type that believes he understands the world's problems and can fix them, and that fixing them is by other people listening to what he thinks is best. People with heads on their shoulders tend to not wanna go into media. This creates a huge problem where so much of society is driven by the authoritarian low intelligence types that gravitate to media careers.

[wufwugy]

I'm sorry but this is fucking hilarious.




They say Obama will be remembered as the first black president. Correction: he won't be remembered at all.

[BananaStand]

The distance from wrist to fingertips is bigger than his head

[wufwugy]

el oh el

[spoonitnow]

Same guy painted this.

[wufwugy]

Same guy painted this.

What a shame that such a racist would get such an honor.

[spoonitnow]

What a shame that such a racist would get such an honor.

It's not racism if it's attacking the oppressor, which is naturally the decapitated person in the painting.

[wufwugy]

It's not racism if it's attacking the oppressor, which is naturally the decapitated person in the painting.

The story of leftism. Identify people only by a group they can be claimed to belong to so that what literally happens can be literally ignored.

[spoonitnow]

This is more like it.

[Poopadoop]

This is more like it.

Meanwhile, here's something spoon posted from around the same time.

Why banana/Thespoonald != spoon

1. Banana does not post memes.

2. Show me a banana post that is this economical with words. Ever.

3. Banana does not use cheesy forms of argument, or whatever you might call this.

4. Show me a banana post that is not at least trying to make an argument.

Show me anything by banana/Thespoonald that is anything like this.

[spoonitnow]

Minimart Owner Convicted of $189,000 Food Stamp Fraud, Sentenced to Prison

http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...tenced-prison/


We were just talking about this kind of thing the other day.

[BananaStand]

It's almost worth it. $189K is probably more than he makes in two years. The article cited two other cases at the end where the perpetrator got more than $1m.

Depending on how good you are at hiding the money, this is almost a no-risk crime. I'd do 2 years in prison for a million dollars. Easy game.

[dwarfman2]

Good lord, posters here literally post links to Breitbart news articles without an ounce of sarcasm. What happened to the FTR I once knew

[OngBonga]

Good lord, posters here literally post links to Breitbart news articles without an ounce of sarcasm. What happened to the FTR I once knew

Join Date: Sep 2005

[dwarfman2]

Join Date: Sep 2005

I think my join date was at some point in '04. Man, pretty scary even writing that, 14 years ago!

[wufwugy]

What happened to the FTR I once knew

We became less ignorant.

[spoonitnow]

[BananaStand]

Kudos to the comic strip artist for adding a pinch of Russia.

[spoonitnow]

[BananaStand]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...AHP?li=BBnb7Kz

2018 MidTerm Election Scorecard

Trump: 1
Liberal Douchebags: 0

[BananaStand]

Alternative Facts

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...Sdt?li=BBnb7Kz

[spoonitnow]

[BananaStand]

do you know any republicans that actually stick to those rules?

[spoonitnow]

do you know any republicans that actually stick to those rules?

I know plenty of Trump Republicans who are all for those rules.

[BananaStand]

I know plenty of Trump Republicans who are all for those rules.

I guess first I'll ask what the difference is between a Trump Republican, and a run of the mill Republican.

Moving on...

Trump just signed a budget bill with triple-digit million dollar spending increases. (Rule #4)

Trump has proposed a 1.5 trillion dollar infrastructure bill (Rule #4 again)

Only 200 million of it is covered in the federal budget. The other 1.3 trillion has to come from tax increases (Rule #3)

Massive expansion of border infrastructure also violates rule 3, especially when half the country supports completely open borders

The act of using this border infrastructure in order to deny American businesses access to cheaper labor violates Rule #2

Frankly any "America First" policy is a violation of Rule #2 on some level.

Finally, an overturning of Roe v Wade, which Trump supports, would pretty much violate all four of those pillars

[wufwugy]

Finally, an overturning of Roe v Wade, which Trump supports, would pretty much violate all four of those pillars

Using your premise, which isn't confirmed to be the most appropriate premise.

[wufwugy]

I guess first I'll ask what the difference is between a Trump Republican, and a run of the mill Republican.

Moving on...

Trump just signed a budget bill with triple-digit million dollar spending increases. (Rule #4)

Trump has proposed a 1.5 trillion dollar infrastructure bill (Rule #4 again)

Only 200 million of it is covered in the federal budget. The other 1.3 trillion has to come from tax increases (Rule #3)

Massive expansion of border infrastructure also violates rule 3, especially when half the country supports completely open borders

The act of using this border infrastructure in order to deny American businesses access to cheaper labor violates Rule #2

Frankly any "America First" policy is a violation of Rule #2 on some level.

Finally, an overturning of Roe v Wade, which Trump supports, would pretty much violate all four of those pillars

Even though I only responded to the Roe v Wade one, all of these are up for debate.

[BananaStand]

Meuller just indicted 13 people for fucking with the 2016 election.

None of them are named "Trump"

[boost]

Grand jury just indicted 5 people for the Watergate burglary.

None of them are named "Nixon"

-June 17, 1972

IANAC!

[BananaStand]

Now watch the liberals FREAK OUT over the Meuller indictments.

They gave us 16 months of saying "collusion", "collusion", "collusion", "collusion", "collusion", "collusion", "collusion",

And Trump kept saying "No Collusion"

Now the indictments are in, none of which are for collusion.

It's already started....I've seen TWO stories on CNN so far that basically say "See Don, we told you they 'meddled'. It was so obvious and you're an idiot for claiming that Russia was innocent"

Am I being pedantic for calling out the difference between "meddling" and "collusion"????

[dwarfman2]

Am I being pedantic for calling out the difference between "meddling" and "collusion"????

Yes, you sound desparate.

[wufwugy]

Sure. It should be noted that the Republican ethos is what Spoon posted though.

[OngBonga]

Is this even still a thing? Collusion happens, it's perfectly normal, and both sides are "guilty" of this. As for the "meddling", USA are the most guilty nation in the world when it comes to meddling with other nations' affairs.

And anyone who still talks about the Russians as though they "hacked" the election, these are the people who are desperate.

[boost]

Doing it isn't bad; everyone does it!

They didn't do it!

Sorry, wait, who's a desperate screeching banshee?

[OngBonga]

Sorry, wait, who's a desperate screeching banshee?

You, for taking my comments out of context.

[BananaStand]

Is this even still a thing? Collusion happens, it's perfectly normal, and both sides are "guilty" of this.

No collusion is not normal.

What is normal, is one nation making efforts to influence political outcomes in another nation. The vocabulatory consensus (a term I just made up) is that this describes "meddling". "Collusion" is something else. That would be one a candidate gets an advantage in the election from another government, in exchange for some kind of commitment to put that foreign government's concerns above your own.

That is EXTRA fucking bad, and it's most definitely not normal.

As for the "meddling", USA are the most guilty nation in the world when it comes to meddling with other nations' affairs.

So? If it bothers you, do something about it. In the meantime, that doesn't mean that anyone who does it to us should get a pass. You seem to be applying a schoolyard standard of fairness to geopolitical affairs. Cmon Ong, it's grown-up time.

And anyone who still talks about the Russians as though they "hacked" the election, these are the people who are desperate.

Eh...it's 50/50.

The most offensive of Russia's actions involved "hacking" of the DNC. That charge is proven true. It's also highly suspected, but not definitively proven, that the Russian's hacked John Podesta's email. So the word "hack" isn't totally offisides here.

However, almost everyone who says it, is using it in a context that suggests Russia's efforts affected the outcome of the election. Furthermore, there is usually an insinuation that the election result, and Trump's presidency, is invalid.

[OngBonga]

No collusion is not normal.

What is normal, is one nation making efforts to influence political outcomes in another nation.

Yeah ok, this isn't a sementics issue, I was wrong to say collusion is normal. Wrong word. Alliances, partnerships, mutual interests, these are normal.

So? If it bothers you, do something about it. In the meantime, that doesn't mean that anyone who does it to us should get a pass. You seem to be applying a schoolyard standard of fairness to geopolitical affairs. Cmon Ong, it's grown-up time.

It doesn't really bother me, not like it used to. I just think it's somewhat hypocritical to be all "America fuck yeah" one minute then "don't fuck with America" the next.

The most offensive of Russia's actions involved "hacking" of the DNC. That charge is proven true.

It is? Source please, as this would directly contradict what I've been reading. The DNC "hack" was not a hack, it was an internal leak. Prove otherwise, since you claim the hacking has been "proven true".

[BananaStand]

Yeah ok, this isn't a sementics issue, I was wrong to say collusion is normal. Wrong word. Alliances, partnerships, mutual interests, these are normal.

eh....close enough

It doesn't really bother me, not like it used to. I just think it's somewhat hypocritical to be all "America fuck yeah" one minute then "don't fuck with America" the next.

This is like a general in a warzone saying it's ok that they shoot our guys because we are shooting their guys. That's not how it works. Again, you're applying some fucked up schoolyard morality code here. I realize, that Russia is a country and will take actions, even against the US, that support its agenda. That doesn't mean i have to let it happen. that doesn't mean I shouldn't be offended when it does happen. that doesn't mean that I shouldn't demand that my government prevent it from happening. And just because I'm making that demand, should not deter me from also demanding that my own government engage in whatever actions, including election meddling, satisfies our agenda. This is war kiddo.

when I said "if it bothers you", I was speaking more broadly. If other countries don't like the US meddling, then stop us. At the same time, we'll try to stop you. That's where the outrage comes from. No one should be shocked that Russia does this stuff. But we should be super-pissed that it was so easy for them.

It is? Source please, as this would directly contradict what I've been reading. The DNC "hack" was not a hack, it was an internal leak. Prove otherwise, since you claim the hacking has been "proven true".

Have you even been paying attention??

https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/26/us/20...cts/index.html

The Washington Post reports hackers working for the Russian government accessed the DNC's computer system

A cybersecurity firm hired by the DNC posts a public notice on its website describing an attack on the political committee's computer network by two groups associated with Russian intelligence

The FBI announces it has launched an investigation into the DNC hack. Although the statement doesn't indicate that the agency has a particular suspect or suspects in mind, US officials tell CNN they think the cyberattack is linked to Russia.

The Washington Post reports the CIA has determined that Russian hacking was conducted to boost Trump and hurt Clinton during the presidential campaign.

Sources tell CNN that although US intelligence agencies share the belief that Russia played a role in the computer hacks,

CNN reports that Russian hackers accessed computer accounts of Republican lawmakers and GOP organizations.

President Obama issues an executive order with sanctions against Russia. The order names six Russian individuals who allegedly took part in the presidential campaign hacking.

the Office of the Director of National Intelligence releases a declassified version of its classified report on Russian meddling. According to the report, hackers did not breach voting machines or computers that tallied election results but Russians meddled in other ways. Putin ordered a multifaceted influence campaign that included spreading pro-Trump propaganda online and hacking the DNC and Podesta

Trump issues a statement after his meeting with intelligence officials. In the statement, he acknowledges that the Russian government may have been linked to the DNC hacking

In public remarks, Putin says that hacking during the presidential election campaign may have been carried out by patriotic Russian citizens who felt compelled to respond to perceived slights against Russia from America

Also this..
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07/...ector-national

The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations.

[OngBonga]

Trump issues a statement after his meeting with intelligence officials. In the statement, he acknowledges that the Russian government may have been linked to the DNC hacking

Oh, apart from this.

Note the word "may". Does that pass as proof these days?

[OngBonga]

...even against the US...

Why were any alleged Russian actions against USA? They were in favour of one party and not the other. One could argue an easing of tensions is good for America.

And none of that list is proof, not even close. It's the CNN, Washington Post, Obama, the FBI... this is basically a list of people your beloved leader would call "fake news". How are you even buying that shite?

[BananaStand]

Why were any alleged Russian actions against USA? They were in favour of one party and not the other. One could argue an easing of tensions is good for America.

What show are you watching?? It's been widely publicized, very recently even, that the Russian's intention was to "sow discord". That's an action against the USA.

Also, you spelled favor wrong.

And none of that list is proof, not even close. It's the CNN, Washington Post, Obama, the FBI... this is basically a list of people your beloved leader would call "fake news". How are you even buying that shite?

CNN was nice enough to compile everything in one nice neat package for me. Search a bit...you'll find Fox, Breitbart, NY Post, all saying the same thing.

Also, the final link, which shows the official statement from the Department Of Homeland security, representing the agreed-upon findings of several national intelligence agencies, is pretty compelling.

[boost]

Ong, you live in Putin's world of "nothing is true and anything is possible"

When you ask someone to prove something, if you don't make the conditions that would satisfy your request explicit, at least have in mind what they might be.

[OngBonga]

Ong, you live in Putin's world of "nothing is true and anything is possible"

Haha jeez, living in Putin's world.

I live in my world. It's not the real world, it's a hazy world of weed, tea and chess. If I lived in Putin's world, I'd be on the other side of the fence when it comes to capitalism. The people who live in Putin's world are the morons waving socialist flags about.

[BananaStand]

Tucker Carlson's show is just fucking great.

[wufwugy]

I can't believe it, Very Stable Genius is doing the impossible on the shooting topic.

[BananaStand]

I can't believe it, Very Stable Genius is doing the impossible on the shooting topic.

Headline: Sicko totalitarian fascist dictator forces bump-stock manufacturers into unemployment

[wufwugy]

Can you imagine how upset CNN would be if an armed teacher blows the head off a man murdering children?

[Poopadoop]

Can you imagine how upset CNN would be if an armed teacher blows the head off a man murdering children?

Can you imagine their glee if an armed teacher accidentally discharges his gun and blows a kid's head off?

And since when it is the teacher's jobs to be armed guards for schools?

Fuck you guys are living in a crazy world.

[wufwugy]

Can you imagine their glee if an armed teacher accidentally discharges his gun and blows a kid's head off?

I can't actually. Their glee would be intense.

And since when it is the teacher's jobs to be armed guards for schools?

Only ones that want to and are qualified.

Great way to get rid of school shootings.

[Poopadoop]

Great way to get rid of school shootings.

So they're going to just go somewhere else and start shooting. What's the difference? I guess you could argue kids' lives are worth more than other people's, but still...

I know it sounds crazy, but the solution to gun deaths is probably not giving more people guns.

[wufwugy]

So they're going to just go somewhere else and start shooting.

I'm glad we've established that concealed carry is a murder deterrent and that a "gun free zone" is a murder incentive.

[wufwugy]

Four months ago dawg. I said sooner than I expected; my expectation was several years from then, probably past 2020 territory. Quite a lot has happened in the four months that I said that, more than I expected. When I said that, I thought it would be weak enough to not tangle Obama up in it. Well, I undershot that one since he's deep in it now.

[OngBonga]

Putting guns in the hands of teachers will lead to at least some shootings (accidents or otherwise) that wouldn't have happened otherwise, and simply move the mass killers to another patch of turf.

Why? You're making assumptions here that are very probably not true. Accidents? These teachers will be trained. Do you see security guards outside the Whitehouse accidentally shooting tourists? Fuck's sake. Deliberate? If someone is that way inclined, then it was probably going to happen anyway, and, as a teacher, one imagines they would legally be able to obtain a gun. So you're not stopping any accidental or deliberate shootings by not giving teachers guns, that's absolute bollocks that hasn't been remotely thought through.

[Poopadoop]

Why? You're making assumptions here that are very probably not true. Accidents? These teachers will be trained. Do you see security guards outside the Whitehouse accidentally shooting tourists? Fuck's sake. Deliberate? If someone is that way inclined, then it was probably going to happen anyway, and, as a teacher, one imagines they would legally be able to obtain a gun. So you're not stopping any accidental or deliberate shootings by not giving teachers guns, that's absolute bollocks that hasn't been remotely thought through.

What's bollocks is arguing from very small samples of people with very high levels of training. Any estimate of the number of accidental gun deaths caused by arming teachers can only be a positive number. It might be a small number, but adding any guns to the American school system will result in more gun deaths overall than adding zero guns.

Gun accidents happen, even when people are trained. They don't happen when there's no guns. As for non-accidental gun deaths, the same holds. Start with an estimate of zero and go up.

Here's someone who's trained to use a gun accidentally shooting himself if you need proof.



If your goal is to eliminate or reduce school shootings, then sure have armed guards all over the place, surround the school with barbed wire and electrified fences. That'll work. But it will only work because the people who currently go to schools to do mass killings will go somewhere else instead. It won't reduce the overall death toll from guns.

[OngBonga]

Any estimate of the number of accidental gun deaths caused by arming teachers can only be a positive number.

Ok, but exactly the same can be said to the contrary... the estimate of how many gunmen will get shot by teachers can only be a positive number.

What do you suppose is more frequent? Gun accidents (relating to trained people whose job it is to protect children)? Or school shootings?
Further, which do you suppose has the higher average death count?

It should be obvious that the lives saved by arming teachers will be significantly higher than any deaths caused by accidents, which will probably be something like one death a decade.

My sample size is not small. Ok there's only a handful of security guards at the Whitehouse, but you can take that further, you don't have to assume literally just the Whitehouse.

How many trained armed personnel accidentally shoot and kill people? Give me a yearly figure.

[Poopadoop]

Ok, but exactly the same can be said to the contrary... the estimate of how many gunmen will get shot by teachers can only be a positive number.

What do you suppose is more frequent? Gun accidents (relating to trained people whose job it is to protect children)? Or school shootings?
Further, which do you suppose has the higher average death count?

It should be obvious that the lives saved by arming teachers will be significantly higher than any deaths caused by accidents, which will probably be something like one death a decade.

My sample size is not small. Ok there's only a handful of security guards at the Whitehouse, but you can take that further, you don't have to assume literally just the Whitehouse.

How many trained armed personnel accidentally shoot and kill people? Give me a yearly figure.

You're still insisting on solving the equation as if eliminating or reducing school shootings is the only goal; and if that's the case then I agree, arming teachers will lead to fewer school mass shootings and fewer deaths from school mass shootings.

My argument is that the problems with gun deaths in the US aren't restricted to school mass shootings and that your solution will have the net effect of increasing deaths from guns overall by moving the mass shootings to other places and causing an increase in accidental shootings.