*** The Official MAGAposting thread ***

[OngBonga]

How is that funny? How does that even support anyone's political position? How does that reflect badly on anyone other than that "guard"?

[oskar]

How is that funny? How does that even support anyone's political position? How does that reflect badly on anyone other than that "guard"?

If an armed guard who does fuck all year round, and who's only job is to take a bullet in the belly in that type of situation... if that guy just fucks off during a school shooting, good luck having armed teachers do anything.

[Poopadoop]

If an armed guard who does fuck all year round, and who's only job is to take a bullet in the belly in that type of situation... if that guy just fucks off during a school shooting, good luck having armed teachers do anything.

eh, I think some of them would. I mean DJT would go in there with no gun and tackle the guy.

[OngBonga]

If an armed guard who does fuck all year round, and who's only job is to take a bullet in the belly in that type of situation... if that guy just fucks off during a school shooting, good luck having armed teachers do anything.

I think you missed the point about "something about what compelled them to be teachers in the first place".

You might get the odd teacher who agrees to have a gun and then bottles it when shit hits the fan. Just like you get the odd security guard who shits his pants. I think most of us here would do more than he did, let alone a teacher.

[Poopadoop]

I think you missed the point about "something about what compelled them to be teachers in the first place".

You mean the desire to risk their lives for other people's kids? Don't think that's what motivates many teachers.

You might get the odd teacher who agrees to have a gun and then bottles it when shit hits the fan. Just like you get the odd security guard who shits his pants. I think most of us here would do more than he did, let alone a teacher.

Meh, handgun vs. AR-15, I wouldn't really like my odds. Of course if it was my job I might feel obligated to run in there and probably die, but mostly to avoid the shame of being a huge pussy, not 'cause I love kids.

[oskar]

It is!

edit: complicated
I thought it was.

What a shame.

[oskar]

Pretty sure that guy had his fair share of heroic fantasies. But there's a divide in the person you think you are when you're looking at yourself in the mirror wearing your favorite holster and the person you are when you hear a faint popping sound followed by screams of terror over in the next building.

[OngBonga]

Does anyone really think that guard represents the average person?

Oskar is right in that you don't know who you really are until you're put in that situation. I'd like to think I'd do more, and would be ashamed of myself (perhaps suicidal) if I didn't. But that suicidal caveat... there's my motivation to act.

We're talking about one coward here. Noone has yet pulled up another guard who did fuck all. We have one coward guard, and one dumbass teacher who accidentally shot a kid. Stacked up against the number of dead kids we have thanks to maniacs, it's not close is it?

[CoccoBill]

Does anyone really think that guard represents the average person?

I'd say guards (the garden variety supermarket kind) represent those with power-trippy personality disorders who couldn't get into police academy, and students wanting some extra cash on night shifts. So no, not the average person.

[Poopadoop]

We're talking about one coward here. Noone has yet pulled up another guard who did fuck all. We have one coward guard, and one dumbass teacher who accidentally shot a kid. Stacked up against the number of dead kids we have thanks to maniacs, it's not close is it?

Didn't the first three cops from that county show up and hide behind cars too? Or is that some liberal progapanda.

Also, think there was another dumbass teacher a couple weeks ago who accidentally discharged their firearm but with no injuries.

So up the first number from 1 to 4 and the second from 1 to 2.

[BananaStand]

Didn't the first three cops from that county show up and hide behind cars too? Or is that some liberal progapanda.

This suggests lack of training. The probability that 4 out of 4 cops are pants-wetting pussies is really low. Especially when they are standing near 3 of their peers. Soldiers in war don't act that way.

It's clear that these cops had no fucking clue what to do, and that's a humonguous driver of the problem.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/575243592...#sp=show-clips

[oskar]

The probability that 4 out of 4 cops are pants-wetting pussies is really low.

Anecdotally I have different data.

[OngBonga]

So up the first number from 1 to 4 and the second from 1 to 2.

Fuck me, we can almost call this a sample.

[Poopadoop]

Fuck me, we can almost call this a sample.

All of which points to the obvious fact that trying to quantify the issue in terms of number of idiots and cowards per capita is not useful.

[OngBonga]

All of which points to the obvious fact that trying to quantify the issue in terms of number of idiots and cowards per capita is not useful.

So why are people posting these articles in "support" of anti-gun laws?

[BananaStand]

Are you guys really just hearing about this now? This has been in the news prominently since about 5 minutes after the shooting.

Part of the problem is that the guy was a coward. There's not much you can do about that. I mean, there are probably psych tests that cops have to take and from that they can figure out who's a pussy and who's a stud. Then give the pussies the really easy low risk jobs.....like guarding a school where nothing happens 99.9999999% of the time.

Another part of the problem is training. It's not clear how well trained this officer was to deal with this particular situation. That is surprising and sad. One of the beneficial side-effects of school shootings, is that law enforcement has been able to develop advanced techniques for this exact situation. Now there is widespread literature on effective methods to confront shooters. If that training was not implemented, then this coward cop deserves decidedly less than full blame.

Even if the training was implemented at some point, it's clear that it was not well reinforced. One of the details that's swirled around this story is the lack of drills, practice, and refreshed training. There's a reason we put soldiers through hell all day every day even in peace time. It's so that when the war starts....they'll be able to call upon their training, and suppress instincts of fear and doubt. In crisis, your mind goes to what's rehearsed, familiar, and comfortable.

[Poopadoop]

Are you guys really just hearing about this now? This has been in the news prominently since about 5 minutes after the shooting.

Part of the problem is that the guy was a coward. There's not much you can do about that. I mean, there are probably psych tests that cops have to take and from that they can figure out who's a pussy and who's a stud. Then give the pussies the really easy low risk jobs.....like guarding a school where nothing happens 99.9999999% of the time.

Another part of the problem is training. It's not clear how well trained this officer was to deal with this particular situation. That is surprising and sad. One of the beneficial side-effects of school shootings, is that law enforcement has been able to develop advanced techniques for this exact situation. Now there is widespread literature on effective methods to confront shooters. If that training was not implemented, then this coward cop deserves decidedly less than full blame.

Even if the training was implemented at some point, it's clear that it was not well reinforced. One of the details that's swirled around this story is the lack of drills, practice, and refreshed training. There's a reason we put soldiers through hell all day every day even in peace time. It's so that when the war starts....they'll be able to call upon their training, and suppress instincts of fear and doubt. In crisis, your mind goes to what's rehearsed, familiar, and comfortable.

All that training costs money. If the US wasn't so concerned with spending such a large chunk of its GDP on keeping its military trained and armed to the teeth to face imaginary threats like being invaded by Canada, maybe they would have more to spend on mental health and ways to prevent their own people from going on killing sprees on a regular basis.

[BananaStand]

All that training costs money. If the US wasn't so concerned with spending such a large chunk of its GDP on keeping its military trained and armed to the teeth to face imaginary threats like being invaded by Canada, maybe they would have more to spend on mental health and ways to prevent their own people from going on killing sprees on a regular basis.

This sounds like something you heard in a humanities class where the professor holds class outside, barefoot, with a guitar, wearing a poncho that smells like Ong's pot drawer.

It costs exactly the same amount of money for that cop to rehearse and active-shooter drill, as it does to pay him to ride a golf cart around campus and jerk off in the bushes.

It's not a money problem. And if it is a money problem....what do you think this cost...

[oskar]

It costs exactly the same amount of money for that cop to rehearse and active-shooter drill, as it does to pay him to ride a golf cart around campus and jerk off in the bushes.

It's not a money problem. And if it is a money problem....what do you think this cost...

No, it's much more expensive, and yes, it's a money problem. But not only that, it's not a problem that should exist because other countries do not have that problem. There's no debate on whether or not there should be armed guards in schools of other developed countries because there's no other country where students are the target of shootings like that. If it were, you'd have a point, but it's not and there are ways to deal with this issue directly that are not fucking retarded.

[oskar]

My knowledge about the Florida shooting was that there was a school shooting in Florida up to a couple of hours ago. Not the type of news I typically follow up on.

Anyway... so what's the solution then? Deploy highly trained gunmen in every school? Who's going to pay for that? Take it out of the wall fund?

[BananaStand]

Anyway... so what's the solution then? Deploy highly trained gunmen in every school? Who's going to pay for that? Take it out of the wall fund?

It's really not hard. Go watch the video I posted. The data suggests that confronting the gunman almost immediately results in the stoppage of killing. Either the gunman is overtaken by a more trained, more skilled, more courageous interloper....or once confronted, the shooter figures the jig is up and kills himself.

You an Poop keep talking about money. But that's not even a problem. The money is already being spent just putting the cop on duty. He's already there....being paid. Is it really a hectic and time-consuming job to patrol a school? are you really telling me he can't spend some of his time reviewing training procedures, conducting drills, and attending training classes (which are ALREADY available!!).

The incremental cost of giving this particular cop better training would have been exactly $0.

Why is money a concern?

[oskar]

The incremental cost of giving this particular cop better training would have been exactly $0.

Please, just for yourself, detail the specific steps that have to be taken for a cop to receive additional training for that type of situation and figure out a way how the cost could possibly be zero.

[Poopadoop]

Please, just for yourself, detail the specific steps that have to be taken for a cop to receive additional training for that type of situation and figure out a way how the cost could possibly be zero.

It's simple. Instead of sitting in his office watching youtube rips of Mall Cop, he is forced to watch a war hero movie where the guy throws himself on a grenade.

[BananaStand]

Please, just for yourself, detail the specific steps that have to be taken for a cop to receive additional training for that type of situation and figure out a way how the cost could possibly be zero.

Well, the cops are being paid for their time anyway. They can spend their day pacing around campus killing time until their next coffee break. Or they could use that time working on being better cops. It costs the same.

Any number, minus itself, equals zero.

[oskar]

Well, the cops are being paid for their time anyway. They can spend their day pacing around campus killing time until their next coffee break. Or they could use that time working on being better cops. It costs the same.

Any number, minus itself, equals zero.

WHO TRAINS THEM?
Who works while they're being trained?
Who pays for the facility they're being trained at?

By your logic, we could put every citizen in a task force, pay them a cops wages, perpetually train them, and there you go: costs nothing, pays wages, pays taxes... economy saved!

[Poopadoop]

My knowledge about the Florida shooting was that there was a school shooting in Florida up to a couple of hours ago. Not the type of news I typically follow up on.

Anyway... so what's the solution then? Deploy highly trained gunmen in every school? Who's going to pay for that? Take it out of the wall fund?

It doesn't matter because money gets wasted in lots of ways and so arguing about spending that money on prevention makes you a liberal hippy stoner.

[oskar]

Your link doesn't work for me, but here's some highly trained donut destroyers at work:
https://youtu.be/qJFHPgxYpAQ?t=1m3s
Not sure how deploying that fucking Three Stooges ensemble in schools around the country is going to decrease gun deaths.

[oskar]

Great. Solved the economy! Wanna do free energy next?

[BananaStand]

Great. Solved the economy! Wanna do free energy next?

are you high right now?

The problem is literally as simple as demanding better performance from cops. They can spend their time being lazy fuck-heads, or they can spend their time getting better at being cops. The time is already paid for.

[oskar]

are you high right now?

The problem is literally as simple as demanding better performance from cops. They can spend their time being lazy fuck-heads, or they can spend their time getting better at being cops. The time is already paid for.

Why hasn't anybody else thought of this?
Demand higher performance! Why of course!

[BananaStand]

Why hasn't anybody else thought of this?
Demand higher performance! Why of course!

You say this as if the actions of the Broward county law enforcement was already meeting a pre-shooting standard of adequacy. They weren't.

It's clear that their repeated dereliction contributed significantly to the circumstances that made the shooting possible.

Let's switch gears for a minute since you're so concerned with the economics of it.

If, hypothetically, the government enacted gun legislation in response to this....who pays?

Background checks cost money
Enforcement costs money
Prosecution costs money
Incarceration costs money

Laws cost money. Who pays?

[BananaStand]

If we're gonna play the "who pays" game.....

[Poopadoop]

If we're gonna play the "who pays" game.....

Well yea that's fucking lol-retarded if true. Is that a real photo or just a screen-grab from Fox News?

Not sure what your point is in any case. Someone should make the dept. spend less money on paint jobs for its cars and more on something useful? LDO

[BananaStand]

Well yea that's fucking lol-retarded if true. Is that a real photo or just a screen-grab from Fox News?

It's real. The lambo pic is also real, but that was a promotional thing that didn't cost the sheriff department any money. Still a real bad look though.

Someone should make the dept. spend less money on paint jobs for its cars and more on something useful?

Yeah, like maybe the guy who's face is panted on the passenger door. But he's too busy ranting on CNN about gun laws because if people didn't have guns....his job would be alot cushier.

[Poopadoop]

I think the gist of banana's argument is:

1. The cops are already in the school.
2. They are being trained to do something useless, like how to talk to kids, when they could be trained to do something useful like how to take down an armed maniac.
3. fixing the problem is a matter of changing priorities, it doesn't have to cost more money.

How about all the training of armed teachers then? Do you just take them off teacher conferences and instead put them on SWAT training?

[oskar]

Oh that is easy. The people doing background checks were already doing background checks, so sunk cost, right?
Enforcement was slacking off anyway, encourage them to do more enforcement for free.
Procecution: see enforcement.
Incarceration: jails already exist, so checkmate
Laws are already lawyering. See Incarceration.

Dun did it
Beat you at your own game.
Behold the new dunce of FTR!

[BananaStand]

The people doing background checks were already doing background checks, so sunk cost, right?

No, variable costs are never sunk. More checks means more people doing checks and more people costs money.

Enforcement was slacking off anyway, encourage them to do more enforcement for free

Not more...better. It's possible sometimes, to achieve more with the same resources.

Procecution: see enforcement.

Variable cost. More offenders means more prosecutions, means more prosecutors.

Incarceration: jails already exist, so checkmate

Variable cost with some fixed elements. Yes the building exists, but more inmates means more food, water, and utilities are consumed by that prison. It also means more guards.

Beat you at your own game.

You wish. A shithead pussypants cop walking around with his dick in his hand costs the same as a dedicated, well trained cop capable of action. What are you missing.

[Poopadoop]

A shithead pussypants cop walking around with his dick in his hand costs the same as a dedicated, well trained cop capable of action. What are you missing.

Isn't the pussypants cop at the school specifically because he's not good enough to do a real cop job? Isn't he basically put there in a mall cop capacity?

So if you replace him with someone better trained and more capable, yeah it's probably going to cost something, multiplied by every school in the country.

[BananaStand]

Isn't the pussypants cop at the school specifically because he's not good enough to do a real cop job?

Possibly. That's not definitively known.

Regardless, the data clearly shows that better training methods were available, at a very low or even $0 cost, and just weren't used.

[BananaStand]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/16...food-fund.html

And we were wondering "who pays"

[BananaStand]

Check this shit out. I just heard that Richard Simmons, androgynous fitness guru (I use all those terms loosely), sued a tabloid for slander or defamation or whatever the technical term is for spreading unfounded lies about a person for profit.

The paper claimed that Simmons was transgender and transitioning to female-ness.

Simmons denies it. The court agreed with Simmons. The court found that there was no merit to claims of transgenerism or transitioning and that the paper was completely erroneous.

However, the court ruled against Simmons anyway. The court said that there was nothing disparaging, slanderous, or defamatory about being labeled transgender. So Simmons lost the case AND has to pay the tabloids legal fees of $130K as punishment for suing them for a silly reason

What the fucking fuckety fuck?

[oskar]

It isn't a localized phenomenon. The media hates guns (and America), so they only cover the topic in terms that make guns (and America) look bad.

That doesn't make any sense to me. This is clearly a problem that only exists in america. The media has nothing to do with this. Kids shoot up schools in america. They don't anywhere else in the world. So how is this not a problem exclusive to america?

[wufwugy]

That doesn't make any sense to me. This is clearly a problem that only exists in america. The media has nothing to do with this. Kids shoot up schools in america. They don't anywhere else in the world. So how is this not a problem exclusive to america?

https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/co...us-and-europe/

US doesn't rank in the top ten. France is ahead of US as well as lots of Europe. Norway leads the pack by about 6x as #2

One of the main things these data show is that thinking in terms of a handful of statistics on the subject is misleading. Norway is a great example of this. Breivik skews the data like crazy.

I think thinking of these things conceptually is more fruitful than focusing on statistics that capture merely a tiny component of the whole. For example, why was Breivik so damn successful? There are many potential reasons, one of which may include that the culture of self-defense in Norway may be lacking. Breivik could not have done what he did in any region in Texas where concealed carry is common.

[oskar]

How much more disingenuous can you get? Are you just trying to rustle me or is this now your actual mode of operation? We're talking about school shootings in first world countries and you deny that this is an american problem, and as proof you bring up data that includes all types of terror attacks and includes countries that don't even remotely compare economically or culturally to the US.

Only those with the highest qualifications.

You mean comparable to those of a security officer?

This is laughable. You guys call for armed guards at schools. Then when a school has armed guards and they do nothing, the solution is: more and more betterer armed guards! If they do start arming teachers I guarantee that 3 years from now a teacher will shoot up a classroom and you guys will go: well, I guess it's time to arm students! But only the most select and best trained students!
Honestly your country is heading for full-on Idiocracy at ludicrous speed. I'll enjoy watching it from a distance.

[wufwugy]

How much more disingenuous can you get? Are you just trying to rustle me or is this now your actual mode of operation? We're talking about school shootings in first world countries

I'm not. Forgive me if I misunderstood you initially. I thought we were talking about mass shootings.

data that includes all types of terror attacks

The link has that in addition to mass shootings.

You mean comparable to those of a security officer?

Depends on the kind. Secret service? Sure. Special forces? Sure.

Nobody is suggesting forcing teachers to be armed (except maybe people engaging in straw man). That would be a terrible idea. I suggest allowing the handful of civilians with the highest qualifications carry in the highly targeted by wannabe mass murderers "gun free zones" just like they already carry in the not targeted by wannabe mass murderers non-gun-free-zones.

armed guards at schools.

I wouldn't know much about that. There does not appear to be that big of groundswell support for this among those who prioritize civilian defense against wrongdoers.

Then when a school has armed guards and they do nothing, the solution is: more and more betterer armed guards! If they do start arming teachers I guarantee that 3 years from now a teacher will shoot up a classroom and you guys will go: well, I guess it's time to arm students! But only the most select and best trained students!
Honestly your country is heading for full-on Idiocracy at ludicrous speed. I'll enjoy watching it from a distance.

Caricatures and absurdities are a tell that more thoughtful consideration would be helpful.

[oskar]

Your caricatures and absurdities are a tell that more thoughtful consideration would be helpful.

Eat a dick.

[oskar]

And I don't agree that mental health is the main issue, because other countries have a comparative track record regarding mental health. But in other countries you can't buy an AR-15 after having been diagnosed with a mental disorder.

[OngBonga]

I guarantee that 3 years from now a teacher will shoot up a classroom

If this happens, are you to assume it's a direct reult of allowing him to have a gun in the classroon? Or is it possible that he would've done it anyway?

[oskar]

He could have done it with a compass and chalk if he really wanted to, because guns don't kill people; people kill people. More thoughtful consideration, please.

[OngBonga]

More thoughtful? Teacher lives in a country where guns are available, is a nutjob who wants to shoot kids, deciding factor whether to do it is... am I actually allowed to take this gun into school?

Please.

[oskar]

The teacher shooting up the classroom thing was hyperbole. And I was meming wuf with the "thoughtful consideration" thing if that wasn't obvious.
If you would ask me with no prior knowledge what the probability of a negligent discharge by a gun safety instructor during a gun safety demonstration was, I'd put the odds in the millionth percentile. Make that a safety demonstration that is being filmed inside a classroom, I'd say we're approaching an infinitesimal number. Yet there have been a number of these incidents and at least two of them inside a classroom full of minors.

While that is completely incomprehensible to me, it is happening. Now multiply the number of guns in a chaotic environment like a classroom, add overworked teachers who are so underfunded that they have to pay for school supplies out of pocket, and the fact that even trained police officers occasionally execute toddlers with toy guns, and you got yourself some dead kids. More dead kids than kids saved from other kids... maybe. Still not a solution that sounds effective to me. Especially not when other approaches are glaringly obvious.

For instance: When a kid is diagnosed by a professional to have a mental disorder/deficiency; who has made terroristic threats in his name on social media; who has been brought to the attention of the authorities - is still able to get his background check passed, buys a semi automatic weapon plus hundreds of rounds of ammunition and then stroll past the armed security officer onto the premise... how do you look at that and go: nothing to worry about here, but we better go and arm teachers because that's the obvious thing to do.

[wufwugy]

Now multiply the number of guns in a chaotic environment like a classroom, add overworked teachers who are so underfunded that they have to pay for school supplies out of pocket, and the fact that even trained police officers occasionally execute toddlers with toy guns, and you got yourself some dead kids. More dead kids than kids saved from other kids... maybe. Still not a solution that sounds effective to me. Especially not when other approaches are glaringly obvious.

This type of thing exists all over the place with concealed carry, and the *fears* don't manifest.

[BananaStand]

While that is completely incomprehensible to me, it is happening. Now multiply the number of guns in a chaotic environment like a classroom, add overworked teachers who are so underfunded that they have to pay for school supplies out of pocket, and the fact that even trained police officers occasionally execute toddlers with toy guns, and you got yourself some dead kids. More dead kids than kids saved from other kids... maybe. Still not a solution that sounds effective to me. Especially not when other approaches are glaringly obvious.

Explain how it's remotely possible that accidental gun deaths could outnumber purposeful gun deaths. I mean, what the hell man??

For instance: When a kid is diagnosed by a professional to have a mental disorder/deficiency; who has made terroristic threats in his name on social media; who has been brought to the attention of the authorities - is still able to get his background check passed, buys a semi automatic weapon plus hundreds of rounds of ammunition and then stroll past the armed security officer onto the premise... how do you look at that and go: nothing to worry about here, but we better go and arm teachers because that's the obvious thing to do

You keep skimming the real target here. Ineptitude. No one wants to admit that because it means that the laws we already have are fine if they are just applied effectively. But if that's the case, we can't "take action" legislatively. That's what the left wants. Legislation against guns and gun owners. Period. That's the game here. It's not about kids. It's not about schools. It's not about mental health. it's not about safety. It's not about body count. Liberals in America HATE HATE HATEY MCHATERSON middle, red, gun owning America. Fin.

Now the left is using children to further their cause. Their entire philosophy is based on breaking people up into victimized groups, and in this case that victimized group is children. They're being portrayed as disadvantaged and vulnerable. The left is tell you that they have a nearly unanimous opinion on legislative action. And even though very few of them have even begun to understand the complex issue of gun rights, their opinion has been given unquestionable credibility. And to deny their demands, is to oppress them.

Moral blackmail.

The right can't just say "let's just do nothing". Even though that is what they want. Deep down in places they can't talk about at fundraisers they all feel that the laws already on the books are adequate. Or if they feel otherwise, it's that the laws are already too restrictive. They know that guns are not the problem. But they're stuck in this precarious state of moral blackmail where they are forced to do *something*.

What else can they say except "mental health" and "school security"? Mental health is probably the most dangerous of all solutions. I really think psychiatry knows about 2% of what's going on upstairs and the rest is just a guess. The idea that we can use legislation to read a person's thoughts and predict future actions with enough accuracy to satisfy due process and justify denying their rights is probably one of the most oppressive hells I can imagine.

School security is actually a compelling argument. Controlled points of entry could have saved many lives in Parkland. Some special kind of glass definitely DID save lives at Parkland. Schools could install more secure class room doors. There are lots of things that could be done to make schools safer. The "arming teachers" meme is another construct of the left designed to make you think Republicans are insane.

Teachers are forced to work in what are effectively soft targets. They are in just as much danger as any kid. It's legal to own and carry a gun in America. Why should the school be allowed to declare "gun free zones" where a gun-owning teacher isn't allowed to exercise his own right to protect himself? No one is talking about drafting teachers, sending them to boot camp, and training them moonlight as soldiers. All anyone is saying is "let teachers have their fucking constitutional rights!!"

Then if a school has access to an armed teacher, and wants to give that teacher a certain role in its emergency procedures, that's fine! And if that teacher asks for a little more compensation for that service....that's fine too!!

[Poopadoop]

Explain how it's remotely possible that accidental gun deaths could outnumber purposeful gun deaths.

Reductio ad bananum.

...

Number of people who will read that wall of text - I'm guessing zero.

[oskar]

Teachers are forced to work in what are effectively soft targets. They are in just as much danger as any kid. It's legal to own and carry a gun in America. Why should the school be allowed to declare "gun free zones" where a gun-owning teacher isn't allowed to exercise his own right to protect himself? No one is talking about drafting teachers, sending them to boot camp, and training them moonlight as soldiers. All anyone is saying is "let teachers have their fucking constitutional rights!!"

Concealed carry on someone else's property is not a constitutional right. Same as free speech on someone else's forum is not a constitutional right.
If gun free zones are soft targets, why are school shootings almost exclusively happening in the US? Those are soft targets in other countries as well. And even countries with comparable gun related deaths don't have their schools targeted.

[BananaStand]

If gun free zones are soft targets, why are school shootings almost exclusively happening in the US?

It's a multi-varied function. But some of the key elements are

-American families are more fractured
-American kids are not properly socialized (related to above)
-The widespread use of psychotropic drugs among children

[wufwugy]

If gun free zones are soft targets, why are school shootings almost exclusively happening in the US?

Schools are a soft target in the United States. Other countries have many more soft targets all over their domain. This is because of like what we've discussed in the past, that in America wannabe mass murderers are well deterred from going to places where they are likely to be readily stopped. This funnels wannabe mass killers into the small number of soft areas. Many other countries don't have this deterrent, so the killings are more widespread.

[Poopadoop]

Schools are a soft target in the United States. Other countries have many more soft targets all over their domain. This is because of like what we've discussed in the past, that in America wannabe mass murderers are well deterred from going to places where they are likely to be readily stopped. This funnels wannabe mass killers into the small number of soft areas. Many other countries don't have this deterrent, so the killings are more widespread.

Dunno. Guy in LV managed to find a soft target area that wasn't a school.

I think there is a large copycat element in the fact mostly schools are being targeted. Just like there was a fad for a while of running over crowds of pedestrians with vehicles. My guess is the thought process goes 'imma kill everybody! where should i go?' and the first thing that pops into their head is 'a school' because they've just watched 7000 news hours of coverage about school shootings. Simple priming effect. If the media didn't go all nonstop 24 hour coverage for days over every school shooting, the crazies would probably just go to the closest crowd they could find and start blasting away. Maybe it's a school, maybe it's a mall, maybe it's a baseball game. It's not as if there isn't a choice of soft targets.#

Edit: could be wrong though. Maybe they go to schools because that's where they experienced their alienation the most and during their formative years. That could be part of it too.

[oskar]

Schools are a soft target in the United States. Other countries have many more soft targets all over their domain. This is because of like what we've discussed in the past, that in America wannabe mass murderers are well deterred from going to places where they are likely to be readily stopped. This funnels wannabe mass killers into the small number of soft areas. Many other countries don't have this deterrent, so the killings are more widespread.

School shootings are not committed by random lunatics. The threat comes from inside. Schools are not attracting these people, they are already there.

[wufwugy]

Liberals in America HATE HATE HATEY MCHATERSON middle, red, gun owning America. Fin.

As an ex card carrying member of the left, I can vouch for this. The right-wing disgusted me. I thought conservatives were all stupid and selfish. And I believed this along with every other card carrying member of the left. And when you're inside that echo chamber, it's the hardest damn thing to realize that you're inside an echo chamber.

[wufwugy]

Mental health is probably the most dangerous of all solutions. I really think psychiatry knows about 2% of what's going on upstairs and the rest is just a guess.

Any psychologists who engage in science (instead of scientism) would probably agree. But then they'd be like Jordan Peterson, using Nassim Taleb's "Grandma's wisdom", trying to fix mental health problems with Lindy in mind: bringing back morality and responsibility to a culture that has been shedding them for decades.

[Poopadoop]

Dunno. There are some fairly big effects of CBT.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3263389/

Doesn't mean therapy is going to stop everyone who potentially could become a mass killer from becoming one, but seems like it has a better chance of prevention than doing nothing.

[Poopadoop]

bringing back morality and responsibility to a culture that has been shedding them for decades.

Seems like an unrelated issue to psychopathy. If someone gets to the point where they feel so alienated they reject societal values and norms, it doesn't seem like it would matter how widespread and high-quality those values and norms are.

[oskar]

I feel like I have to spell this out because you guys are easily rustled:

I don't hate guns, I have no issue with concealed or open carry, I don't even have a problem with people owning AR-15's and other exotic toys.
Common sense would tell me that incidents like these should be virtually impossible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw-jTCNZSmY

But it happened again this week:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.52bbb42e962f

People tend to get complacent and negligent to a ridiculous degree.
Take this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agL5...utu.be&t=3m29s
or the hours worth of entertainment you can get out of searching "gun fails" on YT.

Whenever there's a gun around there's a potential risk. This risk needs to be justified. I see no justification in arming teachers because: as the most recent school shooting has shown: there's no guarantee that the person carrying will even be fit to intervene.

[Poopadoop]

I feel like I have to spell this out because you guys are easily rustled:

I don't hate guns, I have no issue with concealed or open carry, I don't even have a problem with people owning AR-15's and other exotic toys.
Common sense would tell me that incidents like these should be virtually impossible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw-jTCNZSmY

But it happened again this week:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.52bbb42e962f

People tend to get complacent and negligent to a ridiculous degree.
Take this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agL5...utu.be&t=3m29s
or the hours worth of entertainment you can get out of searching "gun fails" on YT.

Whenever there's a gun around there's a potential risk. This risk needs to be justified. I see no justification in arming teachers because: as the most recent school shooting has shown: there's no guarantee that the person carrying will even be fit to intervene.

This pretty well articulates my thoughts on the matter as well - you'll have more bad shit happen by arming teachers than bad shit averted. And, what bad shit does get averted won't get averted so much as diverted - LV shooter situations will become more common and school shooter situations less common - maybe you're all happy with that, but maybe it's better to try to keep guns out of the hands of crazies' as the first priority.

Also, why does anybody think they need to give a lesson on guns using a loaded gun in a school ffs?

[wufwugy]

Whenever there's a gun around there's a potential risk. This risk needs to be justified. I see no justification in arming teachers because: as the most recent school shooting has shown: there's no guarantee that the person carrying will even be fit to intervene.

Do you believe that children are less safe when they are around police?

[oskar]

Do you believe that children are less safe when they are around police?

Please attempt to answer that for yourself. I've already addressed this and I'm not going to repeat myself. It's not a yes or no question.

[Poopadoop]

Please attempt to answer that for yourself. I've already addressed this and I'm not going to repeat myself. It's not a yes or no question.

Yeah I think this is a bit of a baited question. I mean no-one is going to say 'no' without sounding stupid. But it doesn't follow from that that having armed teachers (even highly trained or ex-military or w/e) in school is a good idea, since we've already seen accidents can happen.

[wufwugy]

Yeah I think this is a bit of a baited question. I mean no-one is going to say 'no' without sounding stupid. But it doesn't follow from that that having armed teachers (even highly trained or ex-military or w/e) in school is a good idea, since we've already seen accidents can happen.

When the indication is made that kids are less safe when around guns, I ask if kids are less safe around guns in a way that triggers cognitive dissonance.

[wufwugy]

Please attempt to answer that for yourself. I've already addressed this and I'm not going to repeat myself. It's not a yes or no question.

Where did you address it?

[OngBonga]

So it turns out that the poisoned spy was feeding secrets to Mi6 at the time a certain M16 officer was working in Moscow...

None other than Christopher Steele.

Also, you don't see many news reports pointing out that the nerve agent attack happened 8 miles away from the largest stockpile of nerve agents in Western Europe.

[OngBonga]

More of what you're not reading on the BBC...

To summarise:
1) Porton Down has acknowledged in publications it has never seen any Russian “novichoks”. The UK government has absolutely no “fingerprint” information such as impurities that can safely attribute this substance to Russia.
2) Until now, neither Porton Down nor the world’s experts at the Organisation for the Prevention of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) were convinced “Novichoks” even exist.
3) The UK is refusing to provide a sample to the OPCW (despite treaty obligations).
4) “Novichoks” were specifically designed to be able to be manufactured from common ingredients on any scientific bench. The Americans dismantled and studied the facility that allegedly developed them. It is completely untrue only the Russians could make them, if anybody can.
5) The “Novichok” programme was in Uzbekistan not in Russia. Its legacy was inherited by the Americans during their alliance with Karimov, not by the Russians.

[Poopadoop]

So it turns out that the poisoned spy was feeding secrets to Mi6 at the time a certain M16 officer was working in Moscow...

None other than Christopher Steele.

So how are we meant to connect the dots here? Was the only MI6 guy in Moscow or something?

Also, you don't see many news reports pointing out that the nerve agent attack happened 8 miles away from the largest stockpile of nerve agents in Western Europe.

Possibly because it's highly likely to be irrelevant.

[OngBonga]

The morre I dig...

Ok so soon we'll hand over a sample to the OPCW, and they will confirm it's "of a type developed by Russia".

Key word - developed. Not manufactured, or made... developed. When that happens, we'll resume this conversation.

[Poopadoop]

The morre I dig...

Ok so soon we'll hand over a sample to the OPCW, and they will confirm it's "of a type developed by Russia".

Key word - developed. Not manufactured, or made... developed. When that happens, we'll resume this conversation.

Some cliffs would help.

Who is Porton Down. What is a novichok? What is OPCW?

We're not all following this case with the same level of interest as you.

Maybe not every coincidence has meaning either.