*** The Official MAGAposting thread ***

[JimmyS1985]

I feel like I've talked to one trump supporter living in flyover country, I've pretty much talked to them all.

I've talked to a lot of them, and I gather they seem to believe that you "make America better" by "making America worse". That's my broad impression of Trump supporters.

Like their idea is giving Americans harder and worse lives by and large, will improve their lives, builds character or something. The "pussification of America" they often decry. It seems having 10's of millions of Americans living in massive homeless shanty towns like the Hoovervilles of the 1930's will remedy that problem.

For example, they support chinese debt financed tax cuts. They know full well debt has to be paid back, they don't care though. All that additional deficit this year has to be paid back, but they don't care about the long term, they care about the now, and present, even if it means shittier times in the future.

It's like yea, enjoy your tax cut now, because what financing that tax cut, is rolling US Treasury bonds off the printing presses by the $1 trillion per year. And the one who's gonna pay those bonds back, is ultimately going to be the tax payer.

So anyways that's basically my broad impression of Trump supporters, they believe they "make Americans lives better" by "making Americans lives worse".

[BananaStand]

I feel like I've talked to one trump supporter living in flyover country, I've pretty much talked to them all.

New Hampshire is flyover country?

Do you not realize that treating middle class, rural, conservative america as "negligible" is what got Trump elected? Propagating that sentiment by referring to it as "flyover country" makes you just as responsible for Trump, as those who voted for him.

Finally, your entire opening statement is ignorant and foolish. Pay attention!

I've talked to a lot of them, and I gather they seem to believe that you "make America better" by "making America worse". That's my broad impression of Trump supporters.

Got a quote you want to cite?

Like their idea is giving Americans harder and worse lives by and large, will improve their lives, builds character or something

Quote/citation please?

The "pussification of America" they often decry.

I'm quite sure Hannity has never uttered the phrase "pussification". Where are you getting this quote?

It seems having 10's of millions of Americans living in massive homeless shanty towns like the Hoovervilles of the 1930's will remedy that problem.

The midterm elections are in 6 months. There are dozens of political candidates running for major offices. They all have advertising and information campaigns on the internet. They all have websites that detail their views on all of the issues. Can you please provide a link to which candidate(s) support(s) shanty towns?

For example, they support chinese debt financed tax cuts.

How is that worse than Bernie's plan of chinese debt financed nanny state?

They know full well debt has to be paid back,

Right, so shouldn't we spend it on something that makes money, like economic growth? Or would it be better to spend it on something like welfare checks?

All that additional deficit this year has to be paid back, but they don't care about the long term, they care about the now, and present, even if it means shittier times in the future.

You think that tax cuts were implemented just so some rich guys could keep a little more money? even if that insane naive and intellectually lazy premise were true.....what do you think they do with the money?

It's like yea, enjoy your tax cut now, because what financing that tax cut, is rolling US Treasury bonds off the printing presses by the $1 trillion per year. And the one who's gonna pay those bonds back, is ultimately going to be the tax payer.

Who else would pay the bonds back? Tax cuts > Economic growth > Jobs > More money > pay debt > repeat. That's how it's supposed to work. But it keeps getting fucked up every time we interrupt the process by electing a democrat.

So anyways that's basically my broad impression of Trump supporters, they believe they "make Americans lives better" by "making Americans lives worse".

What does this have to do with anything in your original post? or anything that's been asked of you since? Why are you "pleased" that Trump's attorney-client privilege was violated to satisfy an investigation that's way outside of its intended scope? What happened to your love for the "rule of law"?

Suddenly sacrosanct pillars of our legal system go out the window because you wanna spike the football at republicans? Awesome. You should be really proud of that opinion.

[wufwugy]

Kicking in Trump's lawyer's door has about as much to do with law and order regarding Trump as I do with martians.

[JimmyS1985]

New Hampshire is flyover country?

Do you not realize that treating middle class, rural, conservative america as "negligible" is what got Trump elected? Propagating that sentiment by referring to it as "flyover country" makes you just as responsible for Trump, as those who voted for him.

Finally, your entire opening statement is ignorant and foolish. Pay attention!


Got a quote you want to cite?


Quote/citation please?


I'm quite sure Hannity has never uttered the phrase "pussification". Where are you getting this quote?


The midterm elections are in 6 months. There are dozens of political candidates running for major offices. They all have advertising and information campaigns on the internet. They all have websites that detail their views on all of the issues. Can you please provide a link to which candidate(s) support(s) shanty towns?


How is that worse than Bernie's plan of chinese debt financed nanny state?


Right, so shouldn't we spend it on something that makes money, like economic growth? Or would it be better to spend it on something like welfare checks?


You think that tax cuts were implemented just so some rich guys could keep a little more money? even if that insane naive and intellectually lazy premise were true.....what do you think they do with the money?


Who else would pay the bonds back? Tax cuts > Economic growth > Jobs > More money > pay debt > repeat. That's how it's supposed to work. But it keeps getting fucked up every time we interrupt the process by electing a democrat.


What does this have to do with anything in your original post? or anything that's been asked of you since? Why are you "pleased" that Trump's attorney-client privilege was violated to satisfy an investigation that's way outside of its intended scope? What happened to your love for the "rule of law"?

Suddenly sacrosanct pillars of our legal system go out the window because you wanna spike the football at republicans? Awesome. You should be really proud of that opinion.

Attorney-Client privilege can't be invoked if it's being used as a means to further the ability of the attorney or client to go commit crimes.

I'll provide some links to illustrate what I'm saying.

This is a ranking on education in 2 states in particular, Oklahoma and Louisiana.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...cation/prek-12

Oklahoma ranks #42 "best" education, and Louisiana ranks #45. Ok, so their kids are getting shitty educations by and large. Having a good education, pretty low priority in a red state right? Oklahoma teachers are on a 2 week walkout because education facilities have gotten so shitty in their state. Because what employer doesn't want dumbass ditch diggers for employees who can't do basic math, reading, or writing. Something like that.

Now let's look at those 2 states incarceration rates in the country.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...rates?slide=11

Oklahoma has the 2nd highest incarceration rate in the country, and Louisiana is #1.

Red Republican ran states (I think Jindal fucked up so bad, he was replaced by a Democrat) is quite telling, these 2 red states, would rather incarcerate their citizens, than give them a good education. ranking better in education has been tied to lower incarceration rates.

This illustrates my point, Republican voters, and politicians, believe you make peoples lives better, by making peoples lives worse.

I talked to a White Baby Boomer today, and I was taking a drug test for illicit substances for my CDL license I'm going for. And I mentioned, I think the War on Drugs, has RUINED more peoples lives, than it has helped.

Well she heavily disagreed with me. She said we're not incarcerating ENOUGH Americans. I pointed out, WE'RE THE INCARCERATION CAPITAL OF PLANET EARTH.

She said you know how you not go to jail? And I replied quickly, make less things illegal. Like Amsterdam's approach to marijuana and prostitution, those are legal, they have a lot less citizens in prison over marijuana and prostitution.

And I pointed out to her, that the purpose of the War on Drugs, was to stop people from using drugs, NOT incarcerate millions of Americans. In terms of stopping Americans from doing drugs, the War on Drugs has been nothing short of an abject failure. Where it was remarkably successful, was sending millions of Americans to prison, who otherwise would not have gone.

This all ties into what I've learned from Trump supporters, "You make peoples lives better, by making peoples lives worse".

[BananaStand]

Attorney-Client privilege can't be invoked if it's being used as a means to further the ability of the attorney or client to go commit crimes.

Paying a porn star to shut up about an affair is not a crime.

Oklahoma ranks #42 "best" education, and Louisiana ranks #45. Ok, so their kids are getting shitty educations by and large.

Just because they rank among the bottom in the US means nothing. Someone has to be #50. When compared to world standards, Oklahoma and Louisiana kids are some of the best educated in the world.

Having a good education, pretty low priority in a red state right?

WRONG. Where did you get this idea?

Oklahoma teachers are on a 2 week walkout because education facilities have gotten so shitty in their state. Because what employer doesn't want dumbass ditch diggers for employees who can't do basic math, reading, or writing. Something like that.

Actually....they just want pay raises. The walkout has nothing to do with kids. If they cared about the kids, the teachers would go back to school and teach them basic math, reading, and writing.

Now let's look at those 2 states incarceration rates in the country.

right....cause we're just inventing connections out of thin air now.

Oklahoma has the 2nd highest incarceration rate in the country, and Louisiana is #1.

So?

these 2 red states, would rather incarcerate their citizens, than give them a good education

Really? Who said that? Are you saying that legislators made a conscious choice to put people in prison rather than educate them? Why would they do that? Money? Do you have any idea how much more expensive it is to incarcerate someone rather than educate them?

ranking better in education has been tied to lower incarceration rates.

Source?

This illustrates my point, Republican voters, and politicians, believe you make peoples lives better, by making peoples lives worse.

This illustrates that you're a nincompoop.

I talked to a White Baby Boomer today,

With no bias in your heart at all right?

and I was taking a drug test for illicit substances for my CDL license I'm going for.

Did you pass?

And I mentioned, I think the War on Drugs, has RUINED more peoples lives, than it has helped.

I'm pretty sure proclaiming "Yay drugs" while getting a drug test qualifies you as the stupidest person I've encountered in 2018 thus far. Last year I saw a store clerk watch a customer's debit card get declined by two point-of-sale devices and an ATM machine. Then the clerk said "i'll take a check". That store clerk was the winner for 2017. But you are well on yoru way to topping that. BTW, that store clerk was in a state that ranks #2 in education...go figure!

Well she heavily disagreed with me. She said we're not incarcerating ENOUGH Americans. I pointed out, WE'RE THE INCARCERATION CAPITAL OF PLANET EARTH.

That's actually not a bad thing. Inequality (and it's related symptom...crime) is a consequence of prosperity.

She said you know how you not go to jail? And I replied quickly, make less things illegal

You master debater you!

Like Amsterdam's approach to marijuana and prostitution, those are legal, they have a lot less citizens in prison over marijuana and prostitution.

here's a fun experiment. Could you afford to live in Amsterdam?

And I pointed out to her, that the purpose of the War on Drugs, was to stop people from using drugs, NOT incarcerate millions of Americans.

Millions?? Where are you getting this number?

In terms of stopping Americans from doing drugs, the War on Drugs has been nothing short of an abject failure. Where it was remarkably successful, was sending millions of Americans to prison, who otherwise would not have gone.

There's that number again. I think you would be shocked to learn that TRUTH is that the number of people in federal prison who's worst crime is drug possession/use is less than 300.

LESS THAN 300!!!!!!!!

This all ties into what I've learned from Trump supporters,

How? And btw......why do you keep referring to "Trump supporters". Do you mean me? I'm not a "Trump Supporter". Im an independent thinker who supports reason, fairness, and truth. Sometimes that overlaps with Trump's policies, and sometimes it doesn't.

[JimmyS1985]

Paying a porn star to shut up about an affair is not a crime.


Just because they rank among the bottom in the US means nothing. Someone has to be #50. When compared to world standards, Oklahoma and Louisiana kids are some of the best educated in the world.


WRONG. Where did you get this idea?


Actually....they just want pay raises. The walkout has nothing to do with kids. If they cared about the kids, the teachers would go back to school and teach them basic math, reading, and writing.


right....cause we're just inventing connections out of thin air now.


So?


Really? Who said that? Are you saying that legislators made a conscious choice to put people in prison rather than educate them? Why would they do that? Money? Do you have any idea how much more expensive it is to incarcerate someone rather than educate them?


Source?


This illustrates that you're a nincompoop.


With no bias in your heart at all right?


Did you pass?


I'm pretty sure proclaiming "Yay drugs" while getting a drug test qualifies you as the stupidest person I've encountered in 2018 thus far. Last year I saw a store clerk watch a customer's debit card get declined by two point-of-sale devices and an ATM machine. Then the clerk said "i'll take a check". That store clerk was the winner for 2017. But you are well on yoru way to topping that. BTW, that store clerk was in a state that ranks #2 in education...go figure!


That's actually not a bad thing. Inequality (and it's related symptom...crime) is a consequence of prosperity.


You master debater you!


here's a fun experiment. Could you afford to live in Amsterdam?


Millions?? Where are you getting this number?


There's that number again. I think you would be shocked to learn that TRUTH is that the number of people in federal prison who's worst crime is drug possession/use is less than 300.

LESS THAN 300!!!!!!!!


How? And btw......why do you keep referring to "Trump supporters". Do you mean me? I'm not a "Trump Supporter". Im an independent thinker who supports reason, fairness, and truth. Sometimes that overlaps with Trump's policies, and sometimes it doesn't.

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/09/e...09dropout.html

Having sex with a porn star 12 years ago is not a crime. Bank fraud and wire fraud is though. If I have an attorney, that doesn't mean bank fraud and wire fraud laws no longer apply to us.

"The attorney-client privilege has always included a “crime-fraud exception,”"

Higher incarceration rates among high school drop outs. Why do you think better education would increase crime, is what I'm curious about? That's where you're gonna demand a source because what I said was too absurd to believe?

It's nice you're a stickler for truth. Do you demand the same fact checking from far right sources? Like Sean Hannity, Lou Dobbs, Rush Limbaugh or Alex Jones? These pundits are basically the main sources of information for OUR PRESIDENT. It's a well known fact, he watches at minimum a lot of Fox and Friends, and he invited Sean Hannity to Mar-a-lago. He calls Lou Dobbs for advice on public policy. He thanked Alex Jones shortly after being elected. These are Trump's most trusted sources of information basically in regards to media.

Are they the equivalent to Walter Cronkite in your opinon, I mean do you just buy whatever bullshit they sell you hook line and sinker, because they're the gold standard for "truth" in your opinion? Trump believes they're the gold standard for truth in this country. Remember Pizzagate? How about NASA running child sex rings in colonies on Mars? Came out of Alex Jones mouth, MUST BE TRUE, unlike say, high school dropouts commiting more crime than educated people. Yea that whole high school drop outs committing more crime than PHD holders, that's where your bullshit detector goes off, right?

As for the drug test, the only thing that matters is if I pass, heroin, crack, coke, weed, I don't do any of that shit. I drink alcohol on the weekends during my off time but that's about it, and a perfectly legal substance at that so long as it's not mixed with driving. What are you implying, she's gonna tamper with my pee? I pee clean, I can ask to be tested at a different facility. You're basically implying she'll commit a crime against me because she doesn't like my views on the War on Drugs.

As for the Baby Boomer comment, I own a book called "A Generation of Sociopaths", and it draws on many parallels where basically the Baby Boomers just utterly fucked this country over for future generations, to shore themselves up for the here and now, for example, Chinese debt financed tax cuts. Or super high incarceration rates mainly hits younger Americans than Americans in their 60's and 70's, her generation isn't getting fucked by high incarceration rates. It's a good read. Why I had to mention she was a Baby Boomer. In general I don't trust Baby Boomers, I think they make very questionable decisions in regards to public policy, or just as an entire voting bloc.

" When compared to world standards, Oklahoma and Louisiana kids are some of the best educated in the world."

I read this sentence as "Compared to 3rd world shitholes, Oklahoma and Lousiana kids are some of the best educated in the 3rd world".

I have seen this argument used a lot. That because our education standards are better in our shittiest most poverty stricken states than the Democratic Republic of the Congo, therefore we have GREAT education.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...-math-science/

30th in Math and 19th in Science. We have large blocs of citizens who don't even understand basic climate science, believe in angels, and think the world was created 6,000 years ago, humans and dinosaurs were both around at the same time. The idea that the earth is flat is pretty popular in this country too for that matter.

Edit: As for the War on Drugs, it's been being waged for 50 years almost. So yes, it has incarcerated literally millions of Americans throughout it's entire span.

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/chapter/drug_prison

Right now we got about 400,000 Americans in prison on drug offenses. And it's been going on for almost 50 years, that easily could mean millions have been incarcerated under our drug laws.

[BananaStand]

Having sex with a porn star 12 years ago is not a crime. Bank fraud and wire fraud is though.

What fraud was committed? By whom?

Higher incarceration rates among high school drop outs

DUH! And there are higher drowning deaths among people with swimming pools. What's your point?

Why do you think better education would increase crime, is what I'm curious about?

When did I say that?

It's nice you're a stickler for truth. Do you demand the same fact checking from far right sources?

Yes

Like Sean Hannity, Lou Dobbs, Rush Limbaugh or Alex Jones?

Like I said before, I consume copious amounts of information from tons of different sources. I recently had to google who Alex Jones was. So it's really not fair for you to lump him in the "mainstream". That's just your bias trying to conflate one crazy conspiracy theorist with the entirety of a group.

These pundits are basically the main sources of information for OUR PRESIDENT. It's a well known fact, he watches at minimum a lot of Fox and Friends, and he invited Sean Hannity to Mar-a-lago. He calls Lou Dobbs for advice on public policy. He thanked Alex Jones shortly after being elected. These are Trump's most trusted sources of information basically in regards to media.

Who should he trust instead?

Are they the equivalent to Walter Cronkite in your opinon, I mean do you just buy whatever bullshit they sell you hook line and sinker, because they're the gold standard for "truth" in your opinion?

Why is this conversation suddenly about me and where I get my news. I've already told you where I get my news. Fuck you.

Trump believes they're the gold standard for truth in this country. Remember Pizzagate? How about NASA running child sex rings in colonies on Mars? Came out of Alex Jones mouth, MUST BE TRUE, unlike say, high school dropouts commiting more crime than educated people. Yea that whole high school drop outs committing more crime than PHD holders, that's where your bullshit detector goes off, right?

There's no way that I believe the assertion in your next paragraph about not using drugs. The above could only be written by someone high.

As for the drug test, the only thing that matters is if I pass,

Uh no. If you act like you're on drugs, you fail.

heroin, crack, coke, weed, I don't do any of that shit.

I find this dubious. But even if its true, I'm sure you're on some kind of psychotropic cocktail. How many xanax have you had today?

As for the Baby Boomer comment, I own a book called "A Generation of Sociopaths", and it draws on many parallels where basically the Baby Boomers just utterly fucked this country over for future generations, to shore themselves up for the here and now

So you read a book once, and now you think you know everything about an entire generation of Americans. But anyone who listens to Fox News is a blind idiot.

for example, Chinese debt financed tax cuts.

That's fine if the tax cuts finance growth, and the growth pays the debt. Obama ran up trillion dollar deficits too, except he wasted the money and economic growth was stagnant.

Why I had to mention she was a Baby Boomer. In general I don't trust Baby Boomers, I think they make very questionable decisions in regards to public policy, or just as an entire voting bloc.

If someone uttered that sentence, but replaced "baby boomer" with "black people" you'd be calling them racist. Why is it wrong to homogenize entire groups of people based on race, but it's ok to do so based on age?

We have large blocs of citizens who don't even understand basic climate science, believe in angels, and think the world was created 6,000 years ago, humans and dinosaurs were both around at the same time. The idea that the earth is flat is pretty popular in this country too for that matter.

Freedom of religion allows for all kinds of crazy theories. What's your point?

Edit: As for the War on Drugs, it's been being waged for 50 years almost. So yes, it has incarcerated literally millions of Americans throughout it's entire span.

Millions of criminals you mean

Right now we got about 400,000 Americans in prison on drug offenses.

That's less than 5% of the total prison population. So how are draconian drug laws contributing to mass incarceration? What is putting the other 95% of people in prison?

[JimmyS1985]

What fraud was committed? By whom?


DUH! And there are higher drowning deaths among people with swimming pools. What's your point?


When did I say that?


Yes


Like I said before, I consume copious amounts of information from tons of different sources. I recently had to google who Alex Jones was. So it's really not fair for you to lump him in the "mainstream". That's just your bias trying to conflate one crazy conspiracy theorist with the entirety of a group.


Who should he trust instead?


Why is this conversation suddenly about me and where I get my news. I've already told you where I get my news. Fuck you.


There's no way that I believe the assertion in your next paragraph about not using drugs. The above could only be written by someone high.


Uh no. If you act like you're on drugs, you fail.


I find this dubious. But even if its true, I'm sure you're on some kind of psychotropic cocktail. How many xanax have you had today?


So you read a book once, and now you think you know everything about an entire generation of Americans. But anyone who listens to Fox News is a blind idiot.


That's fine if the tax cuts finance growth, and the growth pays the debt. Obama ran up trillion dollar deficits too, except he wasted the money and economic growth was stagnant.


If someone uttered that sentence, but replaced "baby boomer" with "black people" you'd be calling them racist. Why is it wrong to homogenize entire groups of people based on race, but it's ok to do so based on age?


Freedom of religion allows for all kinds of crazy theories. What's your point?


Millions of criminals you mean


That's less than 5% of the total prison population. So how are draconian drug laws contributing to mass incarceration? What is putting the other 95% of people in prison?

I've mostly said my piece, I'll just point out a few things.

"That's fine if the tax cuts finance growth, and the growth pays the debt. Obama ran up trillion dollar deficits too, except he wasted the money and economic growth was stagnant. " He had $1 trillion deficits, after inheriting the WORST ECONOMIC DOWN TURN IN 80 YEARS.

See this is what's fucked about Republican economics, during good economic times? Jack the fucking SHIT out of the debt. Don't save for a rainy day. Deficit spend into oblivion, right? That's what Trump's doing right now. But during a harsh economic downturn? That's when you balance the budget. Their economics are basically reverse of what economists advocate for. Basically their goal is to make the economy so bad for the ordinary American, that they suffer a dramatic decrease in standard of living.

This is a sobering truth I'm going to give you, I understand you prefer comforting lies, over sobering truths. TAX CUTS DO NOT PAY FOR THEMSELVES. They are debt financed, they require large TAX INCREASES and spending cuts, down the road to pay for them.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...tax-cuts-real/

"For Trump’s tax cuts to pay for themselves, the economy would have to grow by $5.5 trillion, or roughly a sustained 4.5 percent, for the next 10 years, according to CRFB.

That’s a mark that any president is unlikely to hit."

No, we're NOT going to grow by 4.5% of GDP every year for the next 10 years, because that's what required for the tax cuts to pay for themselves. They're debt financed in essence. That is a fantasy world, a false reality, you believe in, that doesn't exist in the real world. I'm sure it's a very comforting lie to believe, but the sober truth is the economy will not grow fast enough, to pay for these tax cuts.

""I am not aware of any credible evidence (in the U.S.) over the last several decades of a broad-based tax cut paying for itself," said Alan Auerbach, an economist at the University of California, Berkeley. "I don't think this is at all controversial among actual economists."

Kleinbard was similarly emphatic: "There is no time in modern history where tax cuts could be said to pay for themselves.""

"There's no way that I believe the assertion in your next paragraph about not using drugs. The above could only be written by someone high."

LOL, that wasn't ME who made those stories. That's ALEX JONES! One of Trump's MOST TRUSTED media personalities!

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nasa-d...colony-on-mars

NASA had to publicly announce, They're NOT running child sex rings on Mars because of this.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pizzagate-conspiracy/

"A detailed conspiracy theory known as "Pizzagate" holds that a pedophile ring is operating out of a Clinton-linked pizzeria called Comet Ping Pong."

You can read about that one here, even had a guy with an AR15 showed up, shot his weapon, and demanded that Comet Ping Pong show where they were hiding the kids in this supposed pedophile ring at the pizza place. He's serving prison time over that.

"Freedom of religion allows for all kinds of crazy theories. What's your point? "

My point is if your citizens basically are brainwashed, and live in a false reality, that does not bode well for this country's future going forward. We need to do a better job at making sure people can distinguish between false bullshit, and actual facts.

You're guilty of this too.

You seem to believe that Trump's tax cuts will result in the 4.5% GDP growth, for ALL of the NEXT 10 YEARS that would be required for the cuts to pay for themselves. You're living in a false reality on that issue alone, we are NOT going to get 4.5% of GDP growth for all of the next 10 years, just because Trump made some changes to to the tax code. It's NOT going to happen.

"Millions of criminals you mean".

If you make lots of things illegal, you get lots of criminals. Make less things illegal, and you get less criminals. What I did in Amsterdam, I broke at least 5 American laws by my estimate, would have made for years in prison, registering as a sex offender (I hired a couple lady friend, and had to pull my junk at one point, and that easily requires for lewd and lascivious behavior in our legal code), and $10's of thousands of dollars in legal fees. I broke ZERO laws under the legal code in Amsterdam, and all my acts were victimless and nonviolent for that matter.

It seems you're basically arguing that you take pride in the US having a higher incarceration rate per capita, than the next 194 countries. You don't see it as a problem that we incarcerate more of our citizenry than any of the other 194 countries. And I do find it to be a problem. And that's our disagreement.