*** The Official MAGAposting thread ***

[BananaStand]

Having sex with a porn star 12 years ago is not a crime. Bank fraud and wire fraud is though.

What fraud was committed? By whom?

Higher incarceration rates among high school drop outs

DUH! And there are higher drowning deaths among people with swimming pools. What's your point?

Why do you think better education would increase crime, is what I'm curious about?

When did I say that?

It's nice you're a stickler for truth. Do you demand the same fact checking from far right sources?

Yes

Like Sean Hannity, Lou Dobbs, Rush Limbaugh or Alex Jones?

Like I said before, I consume copious amounts of information from tons of different sources. I recently had to google who Alex Jones was. So it's really not fair for you to lump him in the "mainstream". That's just your bias trying to conflate one crazy conspiracy theorist with the entirety of a group.

These pundits are basically the main sources of information for OUR PRESIDENT. It's a well known fact, he watches at minimum a lot of Fox and Friends, and he invited Sean Hannity to Mar-a-lago. He calls Lou Dobbs for advice on public policy. He thanked Alex Jones shortly after being elected. These are Trump's most trusted sources of information basically in regards to media.

Who should he trust instead?

Are they the equivalent to Walter Cronkite in your opinon, I mean do you just buy whatever bullshit they sell you hook line and sinker, because they're the gold standard for "truth" in your opinion?

Why is this conversation suddenly about me and where I get my news. I've already told you where I get my news. Fuck you.

Trump believes they're the gold standard for truth in this country. Remember Pizzagate? How about NASA running child sex rings in colonies on Mars? Came out of Alex Jones mouth, MUST BE TRUE, unlike say, high school dropouts commiting more crime than educated people. Yea that whole high school drop outs committing more crime than PHD holders, that's where your bullshit detector goes off, right?

There's no way that I believe the assertion in your next paragraph about not using drugs. The above could only be written by someone high.

As for the drug test, the only thing that matters is if I pass,

Uh no. If you act like you're on drugs, you fail.

heroin, crack, coke, weed, I don't do any of that shit.

I find this dubious. But even if its true, I'm sure you're on some kind of psychotropic cocktail. How many xanax have you had today?

As for the Baby Boomer comment, I own a book called "A Generation of Sociopaths", and it draws on many parallels where basically the Baby Boomers just utterly fucked this country over for future generations, to shore themselves up for the here and now

So you read a book once, and now you think you know everything about an entire generation of Americans. But anyone who listens to Fox News is a blind idiot.

for example, Chinese debt financed tax cuts.

That's fine if the tax cuts finance growth, and the growth pays the debt. Obama ran up trillion dollar deficits too, except he wasted the money and economic growth was stagnant.

Why I had to mention she was a Baby Boomer. In general I don't trust Baby Boomers, I think they make very questionable decisions in regards to public policy, or just as an entire voting bloc.

If someone uttered that sentence, but replaced "baby boomer" with "black people" you'd be calling them racist. Why is it wrong to homogenize entire groups of people based on race, but it's ok to do so based on age?

We have large blocs of citizens who don't even understand basic climate science, believe in angels, and think the world was created 6,000 years ago, humans and dinosaurs were both around at the same time. The idea that the earth is flat is pretty popular in this country too for that matter.

Freedom of religion allows for all kinds of crazy theories. What's your point?

Edit: As for the War on Drugs, it's been being waged for 50 years almost. So yes, it has incarcerated literally millions of Americans throughout it's entire span.

Millions of criminals you mean

Right now we got about 400,000 Americans in prison on drug offenses.

That's less than 5% of the total prison population. So how are draconian drug laws contributing to mass incarceration? What is putting the other 95% of people in prison?

[JimmyS1985]

What fraud was committed? By whom?


DUH! And there are higher drowning deaths among people with swimming pools. What's your point?


When did I say that?


Yes


Like I said before, I consume copious amounts of information from tons of different sources. I recently had to google who Alex Jones was. So it's really not fair for you to lump him in the "mainstream". That's just your bias trying to conflate one crazy conspiracy theorist with the entirety of a group.


Who should he trust instead?


Why is this conversation suddenly about me and where I get my news. I've already told you where I get my news. Fuck you.


There's no way that I believe the assertion in your next paragraph about not using drugs. The above could only be written by someone high.


Uh no. If you act like you're on drugs, you fail.


I find this dubious. But even if its true, I'm sure you're on some kind of psychotropic cocktail. How many xanax have you had today?


So you read a book once, and now you think you know everything about an entire generation of Americans. But anyone who listens to Fox News is a blind idiot.


That's fine if the tax cuts finance growth, and the growth pays the debt. Obama ran up trillion dollar deficits too, except he wasted the money and economic growth was stagnant.


If someone uttered that sentence, but replaced "baby boomer" with "black people" you'd be calling them racist. Why is it wrong to homogenize entire groups of people based on race, but it's ok to do so based on age?


Freedom of religion allows for all kinds of crazy theories. What's your point?


Millions of criminals you mean


That's less than 5% of the total prison population. So how are draconian drug laws contributing to mass incarceration? What is putting the other 95% of people in prison?

I've mostly said my piece, I'll just point out a few things.

"That's fine if the tax cuts finance growth, and the growth pays the debt. Obama ran up trillion dollar deficits too, except he wasted the money and economic growth was stagnant. " He had $1 trillion deficits, after inheriting the WORST ECONOMIC DOWN TURN IN 80 YEARS.

See this is what's fucked about Republican economics, during good economic times? Jack the fucking SHIT out of the debt. Don't save for a rainy day. Deficit spend into oblivion, right? That's what Trump's doing right now. But during a harsh economic downturn? That's when you balance the budget. Their economics are basically reverse of what economists advocate for. Basically their goal is to make the economy so bad for the ordinary American, that they suffer a dramatic decrease in standard of living.

This is a sobering truth I'm going to give you, I understand you prefer comforting lies, over sobering truths. TAX CUTS DO NOT PAY FOR THEMSELVES. They are debt financed, they require large TAX INCREASES and spending cuts, down the road to pay for them.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...tax-cuts-real/

"For Trump’s tax cuts to pay for themselves, the economy would have to grow by $5.5 trillion, or roughly a sustained 4.5 percent, for the next 10 years, according to CRFB.

That’s a mark that any president is unlikely to hit."

No, we're NOT going to grow by 4.5% of GDP every year for the next 10 years, because that's what required for the tax cuts to pay for themselves. They're debt financed in essence. That is a fantasy world, a false reality, you believe in, that doesn't exist in the real world. I'm sure it's a very comforting lie to believe, but the sober truth is the economy will not grow fast enough, to pay for these tax cuts.

""I am not aware of any credible evidence (in the U.S.) over the last several decades of a broad-based tax cut paying for itself," said Alan Auerbach, an economist at the University of California, Berkeley. "I don't think this is at all controversial among actual economists."

Kleinbard was similarly emphatic: "There is no time in modern history where tax cuts could be said to pay for themselves.""

"There's no way that I believe the assertion in your next paragraph about not using drugs. The above could only be written by someone high."

LOL, that wasn't ME who made those stories. That's ALEX JONES! One of Trump's MOST TRUSTED media personalities!

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nasa-d...colony-on-mars

NASA had to publicly announce, They're NOT running child sex rings on Mars because of this.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pizzagate-conspiracy/

"A detailed conspiracy theory known as "Pizzagate" holds that a pedophile ring is operating out of a Clinton-linked pizzeria called Comet Ping Pong."

You can read about that one here, even had a guy with an AR15 showed up, shot his weapon, and demanded that Comet Ping Pong show where they were hiding the kids in this supposed pedophile ring at the pizza place. He's serving prison time over that.

"Freedom of religion allows for all kinds of crazy theories. What's your point? "

My point is if your citizens basically are brainwashed, and live in a false reality, that does not bode well for this country's future going forward. We need to do a better job at making sure people can distinguish between false bullshit, and actual facts.

You're guilty of this too.

You seem to believe that Trump's tax cuts will result in the 4.5% GDP growth, for ALL of the NEXT 10 YEARS that would be required for the cuts to pay for themselves. You're living in a false reality on that issue alone, we are NOT going to get 4.5% of GDP growth for all of the next 10 years, just because Trump made some changes to to the tax code. It's NOT going to happen.

"Millions of criminals you mean".

If you make lots of things illegal, you get lots of criminals. Make less things illegal, and you get less criminals. What I did in Amsterdam, I broke at least 5 American laws by my estimate, would have made for years in prison, registering as a sex offender (I hired a couple lady friend, and had to pull my junk at one point, and that easily requires for lewd and lascivious behavior in our legal code), and $10's of thousands of dollars in legal fees. I broke ZERO laws under the legal code in Amsterdam, and all my acts were victimless and nonviolent for that matter.

It seems you're basically arguing that you take pride in the US having a higher incarceration rate per capita, than the next 194 countries. You don't see it as a problem that we incarcerate more of our citizenry than any of the other 194 countries. And I do find it to be a problem. And that's our disagreement.

[BananaStand]

I've mostly said my piece, I'll just point out a few things.

Cherry picking which things you want to point out doesn't make your point any stronger.

He had $1 trillion deficits, after inheriting the WORST ECONOMIC DOWN TURN IN 80 YEARS.

First of all, I'm not convinced that Obama didn't at least partly cause that economic down turn. We saw what the stock market did when Trump got elected. Why wouldn't you expect the inverse once it became clear that McCain had no chance?? And Trump inherited a leaky garbage bag full of foreign policy disasters. Our deficit spending would be lower if we didn't have to gear-up for military showdowns with rogue regimes in the middle east and the Korean peninsula.

"For Trump’s tax cuts to pay for themselves, the economy would have to grow by $5.5 trillion, or roughly a sustained 4.5 percent, for the next 10 years, according to CRFB.

Cherry picked figures. The same article you linked said that the growth target could be as low as $3 Billion, which would only require half as much growth. Furthermore, it's wholly retarded to look at the issue in a vacuum. Only a damned fool would imagine greedy politicians racking up national debt just to slash taxes and essentially give themselves raises. That's the kind of argument a 9 year old would make.

Think harder.

Is it maybe just maybe possible that some of these politicians support tax cuts as part of a multi-planked economic platform that also includes spending cuts? Have Trump and the Repubs not signaled that the next major legislative project is entitlement reform?? Maybe try getting your news from outside your liberal echo chamber.

My point is if your citizens basically are brainwashed, and live in a false reality, that does not bode well for this country's future going forward. We need to do a better job at making sure people can distinguish between false bullshit, and actual facts.

So you're saying is that you only want freedom of speech to apply to those voices that fit your definition of "true", and anyone speaking something you deem to be "false bullshit" needs to be silenced? Do I have that right?

If you make lots of things illegal, you get lots of criminals. Make less things illegal, and you get less criminals.

I don't even get what your point is here. We've already been over the numbers. Drugs are responsible for 5% of the prison population. If all you want is legal drugs, then "mass incarceration" is a hopelessly poor argument. If your problem is with mass incarceration itself, then what else would you make legal, and by how much would it reduce the prison population.

I hired a couple lady friend, and had to pull my junk at one point, and that easily requires for lewd and lascivious behavior in our legal code

You "had to"? Sorry bud, I'd rather live in a country where I can walk down the street and see people who respect modesty. I don't have to risk getting a glance at your junk. And if that means I have to pay a little bit more in taxes to put a flasher in prison...so be it. Money well spent.

It seems you're basically arguing that you take pride in the US having a higher incarceration rate per capita, than the next 194 countries. You don't see it as a problem that we incarcerate more of our citizenry than any of the other 194 countries. And I do find it to be a problem. And that's our disagreement.

I mentioned nothing of pride. Nor do I see incarceration as a problem. I've managed to stay out of prison, and it wasn't that hard. I don't feel like government laws are stifling my behavior at all. If you do, it's because you're a psycho who can't control himself and probably should be locked up.

However, if I were to stipulate that it was a bonefide goal to reduce the prison population, I think the absolute LAST potential solution I would consider is legalizing drugs and prostitution.

[JimmyS1985]

Cherry picking which things you want to point out doesn't make your point any stronger.


First of all, I'm not convinced that Obama didn't at least partly cause that economic down turn. We saw what the stock market did when Trump got elected. Why wouldn't you expect the inverse once it became clear that McCain had no chance?? And Trump inherited a leaky garbage bag full of foreign policy disasters. Our deficit spending would be lower if we didn't have to gear-up for military showdowns with rogue regimes in the middle east and the Korean peninsula.


Cherry picked figures. The same article you linked said that the growth target could be as low as $3 Billion, which would only require half as much growth. Furthermore, it's wholly retarded to look at the issue in a vacuum. Only a damned fool would imagine greedy politicians racking up national debt just to slash taxes and essentially give themselves raises. That's the kind of argument a 9 year old would make.

Think harder.

Is it maybe just maybe possible that some of these politicians support tax cuts as part of a multi-planked economic platform that also includes spending cuts? Have Trump and the Repubs not signaled that the next major legislative project is entitlement reform?? Maybe try getting your news from outside your liberal echo chamber.


So you're saying is that you only want freedom of speech to apply to those voices that fit your definition of "true", and anyone speaking something you deem to be "false bullshit" needs to be silenced? Do I have that right?


I don't even get what your point is here. We've already been over the numbers. Drugs are responsible for 5% of the prison population. If all you want is legal drugs, then "mass incarceration" is a hopelessly poor argument. If your problem is with mass incarceration itself, then what else would you make legal, and by how much would it reduce the prison population.


You "had to"? Sorry bud, I'd rather live in a country where I can walk down the street and see people who respect modesty. I don't have to risk getting a glance at your junk. And if that means I have to pay a little bit more in taxes to put a flasher in prison...so be it. Money well spent.


I mentioned nothing of pride. Nor do I see incarceration as a problem. I've managed to stay out of prison, and it wasn't that hard. I don't feel like government laws are stifling my behavior at all. If you do, it's because you're a psycho who can't control himself and probably should be locked up.

However, if I were to stipulate that it was a bonefide goal to reduce the prison population, I think the absolute LAST potential solution I would consider is legalizing drugs and prostitution.

Obama inherited that massive recession from Bush. Debating that basic fact is you living in a false reality. You've probably been brainwashed by far right media to not even be able to remember exactly when the recession started 10 years ago.

Our 3 worst Depressions/Recessions in the last 80 years all occurred under Republican Presidents, The Great Depression, the Great Recession, and The Savings and Loan's Crisis. Democratic Presidents have been known to create more jobs while in office.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ts-top-republ/

"Since 1961 … our private economy has produced 66 million private-sector jobs. So what's the jobs score? Republicans 24 million, Democrats 42 (million)." Democrats have created almost double the jobs of Republican Presidents between 1961-2012 at the time of that statement.

I think the main problem with your ideas, they sound good, you can definitely sell them to people, but they don't fuckin' work. I want ideas that work, I don't want ideas that don't work.

"We saw what the stock market did when Trump got elected. " I can't say for you, but my family became millionaires under Obama. When he took office, March of 09', the DOW was 6,800 points, when he left office it was around 19,000 points. increased the stock market by 150% in 8 years, I don't know how you can talk shit on him for that. I apologize if you missed out on that gravy train with biscuit wheels unlike my family.

Again, we're debating basic facts, that you act like you're entirely unaware of. You live in a false reality that doesn't exist in the real world.

Supply-Side Economics is really just Horse and Sparrow Theory 2.0. Horse and Sparrow theory, I could go over it, but the main goal of it was to give a fuck ton of money to already super wealthy robber barons of 1890's, and fuck over the working class.

"Is it maybe just maybe possible that some of these politicians support tax cuts as part of a multi-planked economic platform that also includes spending cuts?"

Where are the big spending cuts after the tax cuts? We just passed an omnibus spending bill that INCREASED federal spending, particularly on the military industrial complex. Right now the tax cuts are debt financed. There was no major spending cuts passed, to pay for the tax cuts.

"So you're saying is that you only want freedom of speech to apply to those voices that fit your definition of "true", and anyone speaking something you deem to be "false bullshit" needs to be silenced? " I'm saying that if you can not accept basic empirical facts, you should not belong in the conversation of setting public policy. Public policy, should be reality and fact based. Not "truthiness". Truthiness is the idea of believing in something because it "feels true" to you even if it's NOT true, you go with your gut not your brain, you act without considering the consequences.

GWB thought WMD's were in Iraq, because "it felt true". The problem was, it WASN'T true. That's a pretty big problem when considering to invade a foreign country, and is ultimately what lead to the largest foreign policy disaster since at minimum Vietnam. And I see a lot of my fellow Americans, don't live in reality, they believe in things because "it feels like it SHOULD be true" aka, "Feelz before realz".

"I don't even get what your point is here. We've already been over the numbers. Drugs are responsible for 5% of the prison population." You did not read my link.

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/chapter/drug_prison

You're close. It's not "5%" though, it's closer to "50%" on the federal level, so you're off by about 900% on what percentage of adults are in prison over drug offenses on at minimum the federal level.

"Forty-seven percent (81,900) of sentenced federal prisoners on September 30, 2016 (the most recent date for which federal offense data are available) were serving time for a drug offense".


"More than half (56% or 6,300) of female federal prisoners were serving sentences for a drug offense"

State, you're closer, but it's still a 200%difference in discrepancy from your stated 5%.

"Among sentenced prisoners under the jurisdiction of state correctional authorities on December 31, 2015, 15% (197,200 prisoners) had been convicted of a drug offense as their most serious crime."

I'm sure also that arrests and jail time over simple possession charges in states such as Colorado, Washington, and Oregon have gone down a lot since they legalized it. You legalize a substance, and then people stop getting arrested over said substance. This should be common sense, but apparently it is not.

"You "had to"? Sorry bud, I'd rather live in a country where I can walk down the street and see people who respect modesty. I don't have to risk getting a glance at your junk. And if that means I have to pay a little bit more in taxes to put a flasher in prison...so be it. Money well spent."

For the victimless nonviolent crime of hiring a sex worker in America, the female cops do sting operations. And because you do the preliminary things required for sex, that can get you charged with lewd lascivious behavior even if it's entirely behind closed doors. Behind closed doors, where prostitution is heavily regulated and safe for both the prostitute, and the customer, you do not get charged with a sex crime in Amsterdam. It basically makes everyone better off, the customer, the sex worker, even society. They've found legalized prostitution has lead to lower rates of sexual assault, and rape. The prostitute and the customer are not better off when you send them to jail. Maybe you've never been to jail, I have but it was on a tour as part of the League of Women Voters. It's not a happy place.

If you want to make peoples live better, don't make peoples lives worse. Jail and prison should be a LAST resort, not a first resort.

A country without bordellos is like a house without bathrooms.- Marlen Dietrich

In regards to jail and incarceration, you would prefer to live in this man's country from Parks and Recreation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiyfwZVAzGw

[BananaStand]

Learn how to fucking use quotes dude!!

Obama inherited that massive recession from Bush. Debating that basic fact is you living in a false reality.

Strong language. But you can't prove any of that. It's at least equally plausible that the market shit its pants when it realized that an inexperienced hyper-progressive was going to take over. We know the opposite to be true. The market got a gigantic boner when it realized that a very stable genius was going to take over.

You've probably been brainwashed by far right media to not even be able to remember exactly when the recession started 10 years ago.

Sounds like something that a brainwashed person would say.

Our 3 worst Depressions/Recessions in the last 80 years all occurred under Republican Presidents, The Great Depression, the Great Recession, and The Savings and Loan's Crisis. Democratic Presidents have been known to create more jobs while in office.

Moving the goal post. The boom years under Clinton were just an after-effect of Reagan-omics.

I think the main problem with your ideas, they sound good, you can definitely sell them to people, but they don't fuckin' work. I want ideas that work, I don't want ideas that don't work.

What ideas have I stated that don't work? What ideas have you stated that DO work?

I can't say for you, but my family became millionaires under Obama.

And look at you now. Titan of industry!

When he took office, March of 09', the DOW was 6,800 points,

Hmmm, I wonder if that means the market was happy to see him?

when he left office it was around 19,000 points.

Hmmm, I wonder if that means the market was sorry to see him go?

increased the stock market by 150% in 8 years, I don't know how you can talk shit on him for that.

Cuz he should have brought it up 500%

Again, we're debating basic facts, that you act like you're entirely unaware of. You live in a false reality that doesn't exist in the real world.

Demagogue rhetoric. Do you have anything of substance to say other than this caveman chant of "ooga booga, dems nice, ook ook, republicans yuck"

Where are the big spending cuts after the tax cuts?

I've already answered this.

We just passed an omnibus spending bill that INCREASED federal spending

And who was happy about that???

particularly on the military industrial complex.

Ooooh big scary words!! We're going to war dude!!

I'm saying that if you can not accept basic empirical facts, you should not belong in the conversation of setting public policy.

So your'e saying creationists can't hold elected office? Is that it?

GWB thought WMD's were in Iraq, because "it felt true".

Source?

the largest foreign policy disaster ....

I'm really not going to debate something that's almost 20 years old with you. But the world is better without Saddam Hussein. Period.

You're close. It's not "5%" though,

YOU cited a number of 400,000. That would be less than 5% of the prison population. If you've since found different figures, that's your problem. Taunting me about the statistical inaccuracies of numbers that YOU cited makes you fucking retarded.

Your new figures count anyone with drug offenses. But among that population are people with a drug charge in conjunction with something else. Like they had some crack on them while robbing a liquor store. Or they were selling drugs while carrying an illegal gun.

So go back to your calculator poindexter and tell us how many people are in prison whose worst crime is drug possession or use.

"Among sentenced prisoners under the jurisdiction of state correctional authorities on December 31, 2015, 15% (197,200 prisoners) had been convicted of a drug offense as their most serious crime."

You've made a mistake. 197,000 prisoners is no where near 15% of the prison population. And if it is, that means there are something like 1.2 million prisoners in total. Which is less than 1% of the population. Try again Mr. Math.

I'm sure also that arrests and jail time over simple possession charges in states such as Colorado, Washington, and Oregon have gone down a lot since they legalized it. You legalize a substance, and then people stop getting arrested over said substance. This should be common sense, but apparently it is not.

Marijuana is legal or decriminalized in almost all the states now. And will probably be in the rest within the next decade. Legalizing pot is not really a debate I want to have with you. I don't think it's a great thing, but it's happening, so be it. As for other substances, no. Society would de-stabilize pretty fucking quickly if you could score H a the Seven-Eleven.

A better way to handle it is to identify the source of the heroin and then erect a gigantic 30 foot wall in between you and that source. This should be common sense. But apparently, it is not.

For the victimless nonviolent crime of hiring a sex worker

You really think it's a victimless crime?????

You think Amsterdam is just full of hard-working women possessed with entrepreneurial spirit? You think they take the money and deposit in their savings account so they can go to college and buy a house?

She probably told you that you were a good fuck. That doesn't make it true.

[OngBonga]

What bemuses me most is how quick Ong is to assume the worst about his own government while simultaneously having such a hard time imagining the worst about any of its enemies.

This is coming from someone who forgets that I have said multiple times that I don't trust the Russian government.

Of course it could be them. But it's not very likely, based on what I've been reading both in the main stream and alt media.

And if it is them, it's significantly less serious than if we did it.