*** Official Politics Shitposting Thread ***

[BananaStand]

Show me actual, valid proof that corroborates your opinion

# of American flags on the moon > # Finnish flags on the moon


ON THE FUCKING MOON JACK!

[BananaStand]

I'm seriously tilted right now.

I'm sure you're gonna tell me to chill, or that you were just being hyperbolic, or facetious, or some garbage like that. I'm not buying it.

That's a supremely dangerous way of thinking Jack. Fascism doesn't end well.

[boost]

Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize and the right acted as if (some literally saying) he was the anti-christ.

You can't hold that he has the power to MAGA, but not the power to do the opposite. I could be wrong, his actions with NATO, NK, Russia, etc could be tactics of a winning long term strategy-- but if that's possible, the opposite must be true too. Injecting doubt into our relationships with our allies regarding Americans commitment to trade, Article 5 of NATO's charter, etc may be part of a winning strategy for us and the world, but it's and odd thing to expect from a president who's main attribute as a candidate was that he pissed off the other side.

Right-- that's what's got so many people perplexed, none of this seems to matter to his base. They are so caught up riding the high of giving the middle finger to all those who've wronged them (perceived or in reality) that they refuse to acknowledge or even entertain any of Trump's glaring shortcomings. It's no surprise that he turned out to be all these things-- after all, these are all the things that would piss off the other side, and that was what his supporters voted for.

[BananaStand]

They are so caught up riding the high of giving the middle finger to all those who've wronged them (perceived or in reality) that they refuse to acknowledge or even entertain any of Trump's glaring shortcomings

You're historical perspective here is pretty narrow. The options were: You could vote for someone you align with on policy, or someone you align with on temperament. You can't have both. And each has consequences that you have to live with.

It's like you think that thoughts about Trump's shortcomings just bounce off of his supporters, or sail right over their heads. They aren't totally indifferent to these things.

All of the offensive things about Trump were known, and carefully considered by those who ended up supporting him. This all happened BEFORE he became president. In fact, BEFORE he won the republican primary. We knew he was sleazy, uncouth, outspoken, cantankerous, etc etc etc. It was a tough pill to swallow, but frankly it wasn't possible to vote for a president without "glaring shortcomings".

Trump's were considered, and accepted as the lesser of two evils when compared to a Hillary presidency. Trump hasn't done anything, or acted in any way that is inconsistent with what you would have predicted on the day he announced his candidacy. For fuck's sake man, he's been ranting about tarriffs since the 80's!! So to be "outraged" by any of his behavior now is to admit to being a wholly naive idiot when you voted.

is that what you're expecting republicans to do?

[Poopadoop]

Right-- that's what's got so many people perplexed, none of this seems to matter to his base. They are so caught up riding the high of giving the middle finger to all those who've wronged them (perceived or in reality) that they refuse to acknowledge or even entertain any of Trump's glaring shortcomings. It's no surprise that he turned out to be all these things-- after all, these are all the things that would piss off the other side, and that was what his supporters voted for.

I think the yahoos who go to his rallies and chant his slogans are actually a fairly small proportion of his base that gets off on the middle finger part of it; that are willing to cut off their nose to spite their face.

I think a greater proportion made a somewhat defensible choice between the lesser of two evils, or maybe just voted R because they always vote R. Now they're stuck with their choice, and cognitive dissonance is keeping them from admitting their mistake .

One also shouldn't underestimate the effect of media sources that are clearly biased in presenting Agent Orange in the best possible light in all possible circumstances, and backing his tinfoil hat theories about opponents out to get him. Imagining watching that day in and day out, the relentless drum beating propaganda being driven into your head repeatedly for two years. It has to affect their thinking. Maybe they started out watching it because it already was biased to their way of thinking. Then it confirmed their choice was the correct one in the early days, and by now it's just the only version of reality they can make sense of.

It's like for those on our side who occasionally turn on Fox News just to see what they're doing - it's actually quite difficult to watch because it's message is so much the opposite of what you think is true. The same feeling must arise in Trump's supporters any time they get exposed to the so-called 'fake' news.

People interpret what they see within the framework of their world view - when it agrees with that they say 'fuck yeah', when it contradicts it they say 'this is bullshit'. The end result is two sides that get more and more invested in their own version of reality, and more and more alienated from those embracing a contrary world view.

[BananaStand]

It's like for those on our side who occasionally turn on Fox News just to see what they're doing - it's actually quite difficult to watch because it's message is so much the opposite of what you think is true. The same feeling must arise in Trump's supporters any time they get exposed to the so-called 'fake' news

You might be right about it being a two-way street. But there is simply NO WAY the traffic is flowing equally in both directions.

First, don't paint all of Fox News with the Hannity-brush. Second, take a look at the video that Jack posted recently of the conservative guy storming off of a cable news show because they were trying to cram the word "Sharia" in his mouth. That wasn't a debate. That wasn't an honest exchange of ideas. Hannity does the same thing sometimes. But there are people who like to watch that, so who are we to judge.

But when it comes to a sincere willingness to actually debate the other side....Fox and the conservatives blow the left out of the water. I mean, watch Chris Hayes at 8pm on MSNBC. Then flip over to Tucker Carlson on Fox, and tell me which one of those people is working in an echo chamber.

Compare Lawrence O'Donnell to Laura Ingrahm. It's not even close. One of those people is a demagogue, the other one is Laura Ingrahm.

That's why fox is #1 and MSNBC sucks.

Now if you wanna say Fox is #1 because it's the only conservative game in town...fine. All you're saying there is that ALL OTHER media is heavily tilted left. That's just gonna make more people watch Fox.

[Poopadoop]

To be honest, sometimes I watch CNN, NBC, or whatever and think they're going over the line, or picking on things that really aren't important about what Trump says or does. And on many occasions, they're outrage seems out of proportion.

The ideal news network would simply report what he does without including any editorializing or passing of judgment. On that basis, if you just evaluate his actions on their own merits (and also, importantly, ignore his constant self-appraisal of how great a job he's doing, which is another form of propaganda), it's hard to argue he isn't a pretty shitty president.

[BananaStand]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/19/opini...ion/index.html

HA HA HA HA "BEST" week ever huh?? This is it? Cloud 9 huh guys? This is the most fun a comedic political commentator will ever have in his lifetime? This week...."the best"???

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

No one's gonna remember this in a month!!!

And this was your chance to bring the guy down!! Think about it, this is supposedly the most humiliated he's ever been and I promise you he gives zero fucks and lost zero votes.

This is your A-game dems???

OMG....too funny....

Richard Marx!!!

HILARIOUS

[OngBonga]

Planting flags on moons is how we measure if a nation sucks or not? Quick, Finland, divert all your money into a space programme designed to put a flag on Europa. Actually, make that two flags.

[BananaStand]

Planting flags on moons is how we measure if a nation sucks or not? Quick, Finland, divert all your money into a space programme designed to put a flag on Europa. Actually, make that two flags.

Why do they need so much money? To hire Americans?? I thought all their free schools were just churning out little geniuses non-stop.

[OngBonga]

Flags are heavy, it takes a lot of fuel to lift one out of the atmosphere.

[BananaStand]

Flags are heavy, it takes a lot of fuel to lift one out of the atmosphere.

Actually no. The real reason is that jowels are not aerodynamic

[OngBonga]

These photos were clearly taken in winter when their faces were frozen in a strange shape after sleeping.

[BananaStand]

These photos were clearly taken in winter when their faces were frozen in a strange shape after sleeping.

Isn't it winter year-round in Finland?

Just another reason why they suck.

[OngBonga]

It's 25 degrees in Helsinki right now, and forecast to get warmer.

That's 25 logical degrees, ie 25% between freezing and boiling water.

I did the googling for you. 75 stupid degrees.

[BananaStand]

It's 25 degrees in Helsinki right now, and forecast to get warmer.

That's 25 logical degrees, ie 25% between freezing and boiling water.

I did the googling for you. 75 stupid degrees.

How many sunny days in England so far in 2018??

Don't tell us how to measure weather. You clearly have a bias against it.

[OngBonga]

How many sunny days? A fuck ton more than last year already, probably. Fuck knows. How is that a fair measure, anyway? I'm sure USA had 365 sunny days last year, what with it being fucking massive.

[MadMojoMonkey]

How many sunny days? A fuck ton more than last year already, probably. Fuck knows. How is that a fair measure, anyway? I'm sure USA had 365 sunny days last year, what with it being fucking massive the best at everything.

FYP

[BananaStand]

I'm sure USA had 365 sunny days last year, what with it being fucking massive.

That's right. Length AND girth baby

[BananaStand]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/fo...AHj?li=BBnbfcL

Damn, she was literally the #1 reason I watched Fox News.

She was almost Trump's press secretary. God that woulda been hot.

[OngBonga]

Also impotent.

Does anyone remember when USA was a global superpower?

[BananaStand]

Also impotent.

Does anyone remember when USA was a global superpower?

If it wasn't for us, you'd be turned into Germany's toilet. Your whole fucking country would have been one giant prison labor camp for the national socialist empire.

[OngBonga]

If it wasn't for us, you'd be turned into Germany's toilet. Your whole fucking country would have been one giant prison labor camp for the national socialist empire.

How do you say this in the language you'd be speaking if it wasn't for us?

[OngBonga]

If it wasn't for us, you'd be a different colour and would have respect for the environment.

[OngBonga]

Have they been living there enough to have an opinion on what goes on around there?

Do they qualify for citizenship? That's when I would argue it is appropriate for an immigrant to be allowed to vote... when they qualify for a passport and become a citizen by law. Until then, you're a guest, and guests don't get to vote in elections.

One problem with handing the vote to anyone who happens to be in the country during an election is it is open to abuse. If I were running for office, I could have a pro-immigration policy, and try to get as many immigrants into the country as possible before the election. Is this in the best interests of the people I'm supposed to represent? Of course not, but do I give a shit? Well yeah, I would give a shit, which is why I'd make a shit politician.

[Savy]

Do they qualify for citizenship? That's when I would argue it is appropriate for an immigrant to be allowed to vote... when they qualify for a passport and become a citizen by law. Until then, you're a guest, and guests don't get to vote in elections.

One problem with handing the vote to anyone who happens to be in the country during an election is it is open to abuse. If I were running for office, I could have a pro-immigration policy, and try to get as many immigrants into the country as possible before the election. Is this in the best interests of the people I'm supposed to represent? Of course not, but do I give a shit? Well yeah, I would give a shit, which is why I'd make a shit politician.

No they aren't citizens.

The idea is that some schools have huge proportions of non-citizen children and as a reslult they have absolutely no say in the education of their children. And getting parents more involved in schooling is generally a great idea.

Not that I feel particularly strongly either way. Under the current system (at least to my understanding, which is limited) I'd argue that they probably should have a say because what they can vote on is still very limited (it isn't changing the school system) however the issue is more why are these situations happening to begin with?

If they can vote on a Finnish system I'm against (as if they can BS) just to annoy JS mostly.

[Jack Sawyer]

No they aren't citizens.

The idea is that some schools have huge proportions of non-citizen children and as a reslult they have absolutely no say in the education of their children. And getting parents more involved in schooling is generally a great idea.

Not that I feel particularly strongly either way. Under the current system (at least to my understanding, which is limited) I'd argue that they probably should have a say because what they can vote on is still very limited (it isn't changing the school system) however the issue is more why are these situations happening to begin with?

This is the important part, and you are right IMO

If they can vote on a Finnish system I'm against (as if they can BS) just to annoy JS mostly.

That's Banana's strawman which you are against

[MadMojoMonkey]

The nice thing is that open borders is not a problem, and does not induce or invite terrorism.

Most terrorism in America is perpetuated by Americans: school shootings, Waco wackos, unabomber, etc.
The irrational fear that immigrants have a negative effect on Americans' lives is what it is.

We had open borders with Canada and Mexico for - like, forever, man - and no downward spiral of terrorism.

I hear a lot of people pissing and moaning about immigrants, but not one of the people I've spoken to about it has any reason to think that they have been denied any rights or priveleges because some immigrant bamboozled the system.

Yes, illegal immigrants are criminals, but so is every person that speeds on a public road. Not all criminals are doing harm, is all I'm saying. I'm not arguing to be soft on crime. I may be arguing that we have a lot of stupid laws whose intent is to suppress freedom and not help it thrive. That's a big problem when we can talk the freedom talk, but not walk the walk, so to speak.


The other nice thing is that this notion that people should be treated as less-than-equal people because they are not citizens is purely hateful and MOST people in the world are not full of hate like that. The vocal minority of haters ain't going to get much accomplished.

[BananaStand]

The nice thing is that open borders is not a problem,

Aaahh, I see you've discovered hallucinogenic mushrooms. This should be fun...

and does not induce or invite terrorism.

What if the terrorists are trying to get it in without inducement or invitation? Do us all a favor and research how many attempted entries by known or suspected terrorists that the DHS has stopped.

It's a fucking lot.

Most terrorism in America is perpetuated by Americans

Wrong. Objectively, and provably wrong. Why did you say this? What are you even talking about?

school shootings

Not terrorism

Waco wackos

not terrorism

, unabomber,

Barely terrorism

etc.

Etc?? Is this supposed to imply that there is a massive litany of similar terrorist incidents? I find that highly suspect since two of your three examples are more than two decades old.

The irrational fear that immigrants have a negative effect on Americans' lives is what it is.

It's not irrational. The depressed wages that result from immigrant labor, as well as the cost of education and medicaid for their anchor-babies is REAL. That's a completely RATIONAL assessment of a real, tangible negative effect on American's lives.

We had open borders with Canada and Mexico for - like, forever, man - and no downward spiral of terrorism.

Drastic mischaracterization. You couldn't just waltz into Canada. You still had to go through customs/border security. You still had to be searched. You still had to provide justification for being there. You could still be turned away. And it was still very very much illegal to scramble through the woods to get around the check-point.

BTW, how did the 9/11 hijackers get into the US?

I hear a lot of people pissing and moaning about immigrants, but not one of the people I've spoken to about it has any reason to think that they have been denied any rights or priveleges because some immigrant bamboozled the system.

Dude, what show are you watching? There are almost 12 million illegal immigrants in America, maybe more. Millions of them have citizen children now. So illegal immigration is responsible for something like 5-8% of our total population. They represent an even larger portion of our poor population. There is no possible way that is a net benefit for our economy. Just no chance. The math doesn't work.

You don't need a foil hat to see that the Democrat party is encouraging immigration and the growth of the low-class because that's where they can get votes. It has nothing to do with human compassion, it's all about political power. That's why they want to give illegal immigrants the right to vote. It's starting small, but make no mistake about the larger agenda.

I find it hard to believe that "none of the people you've spoken to" care about depressed wages or skyrocketing welfare costs.

Yes, illegal immigrants are criminals, but so is every person that speeds on a public road

Are speeders sentenced with commensurate punishment? Or do cops just see kids in the car and say "Oh, I can't take your license, you have to get these kids to McDonalds!" You're making a false equivalency here Monkey that is actually pretty sad. Please tell me you're smarter than this.

Not all criminals are doing harm, is all I'm saying

FALSE. Statutes are created to declare certain behavior criminal BECAUSE IT CAUSES HARM!! Again...depressed wages; skyrocketing welfare costs. Do you know what "harm" means?

I'm not arguing to be soft on crime.

Yeah you are.

The other nice thing is that this notion that people should be treated as less-than-equal people because they are not citizens is purely hateful and MOST people in the world are not full of hate like that. The vocal minority of haters ain't going to get much accomplished

Wrong again. How do you get through life when you're so incapable of thinking rationally?

First of all, who is being treated like "less than equal"? What crime of inequality is being perpetrated by enforcing a border? You might have a point if white immigrants were just being ushered in while brown people were locked in holding cells and shipped back to Guadalajara.

That's not what's happening. No one is being denied due process. Everyone has 20 days to make arrangements for their kids.

Where is the inequality?

It's not hateful to confer certain rights and privileges on your own citizens. Otherwise, why have a country?

[OngBonga]

...this notion that people should be treated as less-than-equal people...

What do you mean when you say "less-than-equal"? Do you mean access to social security and the right to vote? Things like that?

Open borders, instant citizenship, what could possibly go wrong?

Equality is a crock of shit. We are not all equal. If I move to USA, I expect to be treated differently to someone who was born in USA, at least until I've earned the right to be called a citizen. And I do that by not breaking the law, by working, and by integrating.

You don't just instantly integrate, so you don't just instantly get the same rights as citizens. I don't know how any sane person can even indulge the thought of allowing non-citizens to vote.

If that's not what you're getting at, ignore me, as you were. I'm sure someone here was bleating about this though.

[oskar]

You're talking about two completely different things. The humanitarian position is that immigrants, legal or illegal should have basic human rights and the right to due process. How would you even determine who is who without due process?
You on the other hand are parroting a ridiculous lie that millions of illegal immigrants are voting in the US election, which is not based on facts, but it is something Trump has repeated hundreds of times. Trump keeps lying because his lies are very popular with racist retards. If you don't want to sound like a racist retard, fact check your trump tweets before you state them as fact.
On top of that, MMM didn't say anything even related to that, nor has anyone else that I'm aware of. I'm starting to hate this word but you trump tards are putting up more strawmen than the average pumpkin farm.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/24/u...e-process.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...n-from-parents

I'll calm my rhetoric when Trump is impeached and you guys can act right again. But it would feel disingenuous to keep this shit politically correct. They are literally abducting babies at the border and you guys are acting like this is somehow justified. Go fuck yourself.

[Poopadoop]

I'll calm my rhetoric when Trump is impeached and you guys can act right again. But it would feel disingenuous to keep this shit politically correct. They are literally abducting babies at the border and you guys are acting like this is somehow justified. Go fuck yourself.

It is remarkable how 30% of the US and 10% of the rest of the world will defend Trump no matter what he and his evil administration does. And I know evil is a strong word but I really can't find a better way of describing it.

Literally nothing he's doing benefits the dumb yokels who form a majority of his base. Not the separation of families at the border, not the idiotic trade war with the entire world, not the insulting of his allies and ball-licking of Putin and KJU, not the tax cuts for the rich, not the dismantling of the education system and the EPA, not the constant hiring and firing and resigning of cabinet members, not the constant scandals with porn stars, not the arrests of former campaign officials, not the constant shouting about witch hunts and Hillary's emails, not the constant bragging and lying about success, not the constant flip-flopping on his message every other day. None of it is in the least bit constructive. Not one iota.

But his supporters can live with all that because once in a while they get to see him screaming threats at someone on twitter like a tinfoil hat lunatic who's been taken off his meds and they get an orgasm from his showing "strength for the USA", 'cause apparently that's as sophisticated as their world view gets.

Seriously, if your main reason for supporting Trump is because he pisses off libruls and LGBTs and anyone else who you don't identify with, then it just shows you're not actually "for" anything positive, you're just against anyone who isn't a miserable sob like you are.

[OngBonga]

It is remarkable how 30% of the US and 10% of the rest of the world will defend Trump no matter what he and his evil administration does.

There are probably at least 100 more regimes in the world more evil than USA. Except most of those don't get voted in.

[Poopadoop]

There are probably at least 100 more regimes in the world more evil than USA.

So only being middling in the list of evil countries is an ok standard now?

Except most of those don't get voted in.[/QUOTE]

It'd be nice if being voted in could keep an adminstration from being evil.

[OngBonga]

It'd be nice if being voted in could keep an adminstration from being evil.

Yeah well it makes a government legitimate. Evil? That's subjective as fuck. Some people think my smoking habit is evil. They're free to think what the fuck they like, just as I'm free to give no fucks.

Most governments are evil. The world is shit.

[Poopadoop]

Yeah well it makes a government legitimate. Evil? That's subjective as fuck. Some people think my smoking habit is evil. They're free to think what the fuck they like, just as I'm free to give no fucks.

Most governments are evil. The world is shit.

It's a typical shrug; "evil is everywhere so we may as well accept it."

How about trying to make the world less evil, or at least wanting it to be less evil? Why just accept it?

[OngBonga]

That's the kind of retarded thinking that makes right-wing populism such a hit these days.

This is the kind of denial that allows it to happen.

[Poopadoop]

This is the kind of denial that allows it to happen.

This is pretty retarded too.

How does denying a falsehood encourage a belief in a falsehood? Or even if what you read in the Daily Mirror were true, how would me not believing it make you believe it more?

[OngBonga]

This is pretty retarded too.

How does denying a falsehood encourage a belief in a falsehood? Or even if what you read in the Daily Mirror were true, how would me not believing it make you believe it more?

Haha Daily Mirror. You're really sucked into the identity politics game, aren't you?

How about trying to make the world less evil, or at least wanting it to be less evil? Why just accept it?

Fine. Start with the biggest losers out there, ie the non-democratic fuckers who kill and imprison their political opponents? Turkey is a MUCH more evil country than USA. As is Saudi Arabi. I assume you were protesting when their respective leaders visited the UK recently?

I don't see truly evil shit happening in USA. I see some shit that makes me think "really", but then I also think "gald that's not my problem" because I have absolutely no idea how to deal with the problem of immigrants, which is why it's hard for me to critisise someone who is trying to deal with it. At least he's trying to stop it, rather than encouraging it.

[OngBonga]

I'm not quoting Trump tweets, I'm referring to comments itt. And quite frankly I don't care if I sound like a racist idiot. I'm not one. I'm not going to get butthurt over casual use of powerful words. I'm not racist because I don't believe my race is superior to another. I know what racism actually means.

Trump isn't getting impeached, and wishing he does is like wishing democracy gets fucked up the arse to suit your political agenda. If Trump gets impeached, shit gets worse. You do realise that, don't you? The way to remove Trump is by ballot. If that doesn't happen, respect democracy.

Go fuck yourself.

No, you.

[Poopadoop]

Trump isn't getting impeached, and wishing he does is like wishing democracy gets fucked up the arse to suit your political agenda. If Trump gets impeached, shit gets worse. You do realise that, don't you? The way to remove Trump is by ballot. If that doesn't happen, respect democracy.

So when Nixon was forced to resign because he was a criminal, that was a witch hunt too, not democracy?

So basically you've taken the line that Trump's innocent of any wrongdoing and nothing will convince you otherwise. Well done, you're officially a trumptard.

[OngBonga]

So when Nixon was forced to resign because he was a criminal, that was a witch hunt too, not democracy?

So basically you've taken the line that Trump's innocent of any wrongdoing and nothing will convince you otherwise. Well done, you're officially a trumptard.

Ok, rather than arguing about hypotheticals, how about we wait until they try to impeach him, and then we'll discuss whether he's a criminal who isn't fit for office, or it's a politically motivated witchhunt.

So basically you've taken the line that Trump's innocent of any wrongdoing and nothing will convince you otherwise. Well done, you're officially a trumptard.

"nothing will convince you otherwise"

Now why on earth do you think that?

[Poopadoop]

Ok, rather than arguing about hypotheticals, how about we wait until they try to impeach him, and then we'll discuss whether he's a criminal who isn't fit for office, or it's a politically motivated witchhunt.



"nothing will convince you otherwise"

Now why on earth do you think that?

I believe you would probably change your mind if he confessed or was caught red-handed; since neither of those appear likely I think you'll probably join the rest of his fans in thinking it was a conspiracy. Not saying such a conspiracy is impossible, just that if you knew enough about Trump you'd be inclined to think he's extremely greasy, and on the balance of likelihood, he's probably done several things that are worthy of impeachment.

[OngBonga]

They are literally abducting babies at the border and you guys are acting like this is somehow justified.

Immigrants are literally raping babies in our cities, but saying that is politically incorrect. It's cool to use the phrase "literally abducting" to refer to the detention of illegal immigrants, though. I was "literally abducted" by the UK government when they put me in care, against my will, as a 7 y/o boy. Can I have some of those tears please? I'm a victim, too.

Here's what I think about families getting seperated at borders... that's the risk you're taking when you engage on a dangerous and illegal mission to gain entry to another country. If it sounds like I lack empathy, well I find it emotionally draining attempting to have empathy for the 4 or 5 billion people who are worse off than me. All I know is there isn't room for everyone on this island I reside in, and I can understand why other people around the world have their concerns too. It's not racism, it's fear of society falling apart at the seams.

And it's happening.

[Poopadoop]

Immigrants are literally raping babies in our cities, but saying that is politically incorrect.

Is this really an epidemic? And how many native-born people are raping babies? You have to show it's something to do with being an immigrant that makes someone go around raping babies.

It's cool to use the phrase "literally abducting" to refer to the detention of illegal immigrants, though. I was "literally abducted" by the UK government when they put me in care, against my will, as a 7 y/o boy. Can I have some of those tears please? I'm a victim, too.

Do you think they did that because they thought it was in your best interests or because they had some ulterior motive?

Here's what I think about families getting seperated at borders... that's the risk you're taking when you engage on a dangerous and illegal mission to gain entry to another country. If it sounds like I lack empathy, well I find it emotionally draining attempting to have empathy for the 4 or 5 billion people who are worse off than me. All I know is there isn't room for everyone on this island I reside in, and I can understand why other people around the world have their concerns too. It's not racism, it's fear of society falling apart at the seams.

And it's happening.

That's the kind of retarded thinking that makes right-wing populism such a hit these days.

[OngBonga]

I believe you would probably change your mind if he confessed or was caught red-handed;

As in, if there was actual evidence, rather than hearsay and media reports? Yeah, exactly.

[Poopadoop]

As in, if there was actual evidence, rather than hearsay and media reports? Yeah, exactly.

Do you not find it at least suspicious that a number of his campaign associates have already been indicted? At best it shows he didn't vet his campaign team very well (or at all); at worst (and probably more likely) he's in it up to his neck.

[OngBonga]

Do you not find it at least suspicious that a number of his campaign associates have already been indicted? At best it shows he didn't vet his campaign team very well (or at all); at worst (and probably more likely) he's in it up to his neck.

Indicted? By whom? I find it very difficult to take such indictments seriously.

[Poopadoop]

Indicted? By whom? I find it very difficult to take such indictments seriously.

By an independent Rep counsel appointed by the Rep Attorney General,who himself was appointed by the Rep president himself. I'd be more suspicious if they didn't indict anyone.

[Savy]

I blame the liberals for making it so you can keep adult immigrants in inhumane conditions but not their babies. Not sure how that's Trump's fault.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-44902381

[OngBonga]

Daily Mail now. You did it again. You assume everyone who opposes your position reads rags. You just put an entire demographic in one little box.

Like I say, sucked in.

[Poopadoop]

Daily Mail now. You did it again. You assume everyone who opposes your position reads rags. You just put an entire demographic in one little box.

Like I say, sucked in.

Well name your source then. What credible news source told you there was a serious widespread problem with immigrant baby rapists in the UK? Presumably you didn't just hear it from a friend of a friend if you're letting that idea paint your view on immigration.

[OngBonga]

The Mayor of London was promoting the baby balloon. I mean we can pretend that it was spontaneous if we want to pretend we're all fucking stupid, but it blatantly wasn't. Furthermore, everyone who attended just made themselves look like hypocrites... with the notable exception of those who did happen to protest the hosting of Turk and Saudi officials. Respect to those guys. But the 99%... it was a day for selfies.

He was a dick of a guest? Oh dear, he insulted Terry's Brexit plan. Well fuck me dead, I'm sorry I was more bothered about despotic leaders gracing our shores.

[Savy]

Tbf one of the best things about the UK is that we do shit like the baby balloon. As much as I'm basically a Trump fan over here as I don't think he's Satan I would never want to see things like that not happening.

[oskar]

Could you link me the baby rape case. I'm not much for anecdotes, but I couldn't even find a single case. If fear of rape is something you use to form your opinion, you should have statistics to back that up.
But even if said statistics actually turn out to be worrying, it's wouldn't logically follow that you have to separate families at the border. That seems like a separate issue.

[OngBonga]

Google it oskar.

[Jack Sawyer]

Well name your source then. What credible news source told you there was a serious widespread problem with immigrant baby rapists in the UK? Presumably you didn't just hear it from a friend of a friend if you're letting that idea paint your view on immigration.

Could you link me the baby rape case. I'm not much for anecdotes, but I couldn't even find a single case. If fear of rape is something you use to form your opinion, you should have statistics to back that up.
But even if said statistics actually turn out to be worrying, it's wouldn't logically follow that you have to separate families at the border. That seems like a separate issue.

Google it oskar.

Is that a deflection, ong? You could just make it easy for all and name your source, right? As apparently they can't find it

[Jack Sawyer]

Since google indeed failed me, I had to turn to searching breitbart. This is the closest thing to "immigrant baby rape" as a search result I could find

By none other than Ann Coulter

https://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...rape-epidemic/

[OngBonga]

Oh I didn't read your second post. Well glad google failed you. Try adding "Rotherham" to your search.

[OngBonga]

Deflection, laziness, call it what you like. I really can't be fucked to go through my twitter feed and browsing history to satisify poop's and oskar's demands for sources. If you want to argue that I'm talking out of my arse, google it, and tell me that you found nothing. I'll wait.

[oskar]

So to clarify: because there was a child abuse ring in the UK, lead by UK citizens of pakistani origin that was struck down 11 years ago, the practice of removing mexican children from their parents at the US border with clearly no plan to reunify them is justified, because... ?
Why? What's the connection there?

[Jack Sawyer]

So to clarify: because there was a child abuse ring in the UK, lead by UK citizens of pakistani origin that was struck down 11 years ago, the practice of removing mexican children from their parents at the US border with clearly no plan to reunify them is justified, because... ?
Why? What's the connection there?

Imigrunts

[OngBonga]

Right, that's Rotherham done. Now try Sweden. Then after that, Germany. Take a look how enriched their societies have become thanks to imigrunts.

I should point out, it's a certain type of immigrant I have a problem with. ie, the ones who are so blindly deluded by batshit religion that they feel local law does not apply to them, rather they asnwer to he who cannot be drawn.

Despising a religion is not racism. Islam is not a fucking race. It's a cult. If we were talking about banning scientologists because they are fucking idiots who have nothing in common with normal values, then no one would give a fuck. Because because most Muslims happen to be of a dark skin colour, it's suddenly a matter of race rather than religion.

Fuck that. I'm not being forced into accpeting crazy just because morons are playing the race card. Islam is incompatible with our values. If you can't see that, then you have your eyes shut.

[oskar]

According to the 2010 census, 0,003% of mexicans are muslims while 1% of the US population are muslims. So mexican immigrants effectively reduce the percentage of muslims in the US. Wanna try again?

[OngBonga]

You know, I've been on benefits for large portions of my life, and not once have I ever seen a Chinese person in the jobcentre.

The thing with Mexicans is they are economic migrants, not refugess or war migrants. It's perfectly acceptable to refuse entry to an economic migrant if the host nation feels it is not in their economic interests. Is Mexico at war? It's a bit fucking lawless, and I'd prefer to live in USA than Mexico. But it's not a matter of life or death for the majority of those who attempt to cross, it's a matter of preference. I'd rather live in New Zealand than UK. My life would be a great deal more satisfying. I even speak the same language as they do. And I don't believe in sky fairies. But I'm useless to them, so as far as they're concerned, I can stay the fuck here in UK And the crazy thing is... I think that is absolutely fair enough.

I haven't got a problem with any individual who intends to settle in a new country by means of genuine integration... being a law abiding citizen, working and speaking the host language. That applies to Mexicans, Muslims, anyone. The problem with Muslims is they don't integrate. Do Mexicans? I wouldn't really know, but I would imagine they do more so than Muslims. Are they of net economic benefit to USA? Again I wouldn't know, that's a matter for the President.It seems he thinks not.

But again, I'll say this... being anti-immigration is NOT racism. Most people who are anti-immigration are so on economic and social grounds. You won't hear many people in the UK telling Chinese people to fuck off back to where they came from, and the reason is because they integrate and become part of our society. That's the key. If Muslims came here and, idk, spoke English and abandoned Sharia, and perhaps kept their opinions about how immoral their hosts are to themselves, then we might not have a problem.

idk if Mexicans are a problem for USA, but I certainly respect the right of the USA to tell economic migrants to fuck off.

[Poopadoop]

I heard this story about this famous British entertainer who singlehandedly raped lots of babies over decades and his employers and the authorities covered it up and why British people are being allowed to live here I have no idea.

[OngBonga]

Dear Pakistan,

I am a white English citizen who wishes to move to Islamabad. Unfortunately I am unable to speak whatever language you speak. Urdu? It's a guess, and I don't even care if I'm right. I have no desire to learn another language. I have no qualifications, and no desire to work. I would like to live a comfortable life on your benefits system, while living in a white-only community, where I feel safe from the threat of racism from your terrible citizens. I want access to a Christian church, and any locals who discriminate against us should be treated with severity. I also expect your police force to use adequate resources to carefully monitor social media for hate crimes against people like me.

I reserve the right to explode myself in a busy market to punish your sinner citizens for their wicked ways.

I look forward to being granted immediate citizenship, with full voting rights.

Sincerely,
Ong.

[OngBonga]

Yeah you have a valid point, we should deport the likes of Jimmy Savile, too. Anyone know a country that wants our baby rapers?

The establishment are worse than the Muzz. Let's talk about percentages. I'm not going to do any googling, I'll just pull a league table of baby rapers out of my arse...
1. British Royalty, politicians, and celebrities
2. Middle Eastern & African immigrants of a religious nature (aka Muzz)
3. Aston Villa fans
4. Working class white British people
5. East Asian immigrants

I'd quite happily set fire to anyone who willingly covered up for Savile.

Anyway, I appreciate my trolling is cutting close to the bone here, so let's point out that you're missing a rather large point. Actually two. You're assuming I'm saying ban all Muzz because there's a higher percentage of baby rapers amongst them than in normal society. I'm not. I'm saying don't let them in because they have utter contempt for our way of life and have absolutely no intention of integrating. I'm pointing at things like Rotherham, Sweden, Germany and all the other places infested with dreadful crime as a consequence of "cultural enrichment" as examples of what happens to societies when immigration gets out of hand. What happens is we get the worst of the third worlders, the ones who abandon their families and nations, and crime goes through the roof. The evidence is abundant, but anyone who dares point to it is accused of racism. No wonder they feel invinisble.

The other point you're missing is you can't deport British people to somewhere other than Britain. Sadly, gone are the days where we can dump our convicts on random islands. What you can do though is refuse to allow in a group of people who hold western values in contempt. What's the problem there?

[MadMojoMonkey]

What's the problem there?

That you're conflating desperate people exhibiting criminal discontent for the cultural norms with immigrants coming from a different culture refusing to adopt your own. You can't even pretend you don't have ethnic centers of culture in the UK. Those centers have adopted the minimal UK culture to coexist, while keeping as much of their "outside" culture as they can. This belies that it's not a matter of adopting culture at all. It's a matter of desperate people doing desperate things.

The notion that child rape is a consequence of desperation is ridiculous. Pedophilia is a brain disorder. Rape is a violent crime. It's certainly possible that someone was driven from their home town because they were a confirmed child rapist, but that can't be any kind of norm for any human society.

EDIT: I don't know of any case of pedophilia which was a transient period in a person's life. They're either a sick fuck who is attracted to children or they're not. Feel free to lay me some evidence of a "reformed" pedo. What could possibly count as proof that someone doesn't fantasize about being a pedo even if they suppress those urges from becoming criminal actions? Maybe not too scientific of me to discount evidence before it's been shown, but this is psychology. Dafuq can be proved in psychology?

[Jack Sawyer]

Yeah you have a valid point, we should deport the likes of Jimmy Savile, too. Anyone know a country that wants our baby rapers?

How about jailing him?

[OngBonga]

ps, I'm still bound by UK law, not Pakistani law.

[oskar]

...

To say you're veering off topic is an insult to the average object veering off. How does any of that relate to the child separation policy? All of the things you say could be true. I don't challenge them because they're irrelevant. Why do mexicans crossing the border - legally or illegally - because this is happening pre-trial, have their children abducted. And I'm not using emotive language. They take their children 0-17 years of age, in many cases don't have records which child was taken from which adult, and have no plans on reuniting them. How can you possibly defend this?
So far nothing you said relates to this policy directly or could be in any way used to justify it. If I'm overlooking something, feel free to point it out.

[Poopadoop]

How does any of that relate to the child separation policy?

I believe his defense was that separating children from their parents was an effective deterrent to being a non-white-non-US-citizen on US soil.

He then developed the defense that this was acceptable policy with the idea that people from a different culture/religion/whatever who emigrate are usually depraved criminals looking for fresh victims to satisfy their lust for babies. Also, something something about last night in Sweden, and no-go zones in Berlin where immigrants stab and rape any white person they come across.

Ong, maybe if you left your village in the Midlands once in a while and saw the world with your own eyes you might not have such a two-dimensionally retarded view of things.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Ong, maybe if you left your village in the Midlands once in a while and saw the world with your own eyes you might not have such a two-dimensionally retarded view of things.

I don't agree with the tone, but I do agree with the sentiment.
Ethnocentrism is strong, here. It's almost exclusively due to people being afraid of other people.
Other people whom they've never met.
Other people whom they've never met whom are somehow less trustworthy than the criminals in their own families.

It's lazy hating based on thinly veiled fear.

Put your big kid pants on and stop living in fear, you scaredy cats.

[BananaStand]

And I'm not using emotive language

You sure 'bout that?

Why do mexicans crossing the border - legally or illegally - because this is happening pre-trial, have their children abducted.

^WTF?

Dude....why so much demagogue??? "Abducted"? You really wanna use that word? You REALLY think it's appropriate?

If so, then either A) You're hopelessly misinformed about vocabulary, or B) you lack the cognitive abilities to engage in a logical, fact-based, discussion on border policy. Which is it?

Your rhetoric clearly suggests that child-separation was a policy created purposefully for the purpose of enforcing the border. You seem to think it's done as punishment, or outright cruelty towards illegal immigrants. Like "Ha ha ha, we caught you crossing our border, now suffer the ultimate price and say good bye to your kids!!"

Criminals don't get to take their kids to jail with them.

that's NEVER been the case for any crime, ever. If you get caught stealing, or selling drugs, or vandalizing property...you go to jail. And your kids don't get to come with you. You either find someone to take them for you, or the state puts them in foster-care. That's how it's always worked, for every criminal ever. Immigrant and citizens alike.

Illegal border crossers had TWENTY FUCKING DAYS to call Uncle Jose and ask him to drive up to Juarez and pick up little Miguel. That's almost three friggen weeks to make arrangements for their kids. Turn on an episode of COPS sometime and watch them arrest people. Tell me how many times the criminal was allowed to say "Hey, I know you wanna take me to jail, but can we stall this for three weeks? I've got a kid"

Stop calling it a "child separation policy". That's bullshit demagoguery.

America has had decades now of Democratic leadership that refused to enforce the border. Trump got elected because he promised to enforce the border. Enforcing the border means that illegal immigrants aren't allowed to cross, and they get punished for trying.

Do you have a BETTER idea Oskar? I'm seriously asking. What policy would you suggest that effectively enforces the border? How would you keep the criminals and economic immigrants (as Ong described) out of the country? How would you disincentivize a crossing attempt?

Do you really think that border patrol should round people up and then say "Ok, everyone with kids is free to go. Better luck next time"

Do you see how INSANE that would be? Do you not see how you would be making a perverse and cruel incentive for people to take kids on this dangerous trek across the friggen desert?

Maybe you could say that border enforcement could have been a little "tighter" administratively. Maybe they could have kept better records for reunification purposes. Oh well, they didn't. And when it became a problem, Trump took action and fixed it. If you think that took too long, you're probably right. Congress should have fixed it immediately. Except the Democrats, led by Chuck Schumer decided to shrug and say "nah, not our problem".

After that, Trump issued an Executive Order and now families aren't separated anymore. You really can't ask for more than that. No one has bitched about family separations for almost two months now Oskar. yet here you are still ranting about "abductions".

have we talked about what demagoguery means???

I'm waiting now to hear YOUR incredibly effective and entirely humane border enforcement policy. What is it?