*** Official Politics Shitposting Thread ***

[Poopadoop]

Fuck me, nice work detective. Here's me on Twitter pulling up images of snow drifts on the 3rd, while you repeat what the British authorities say on the matter.

Amesbury is not Salisbury.

[OngBonga]

Amesbury is not Salisbury.

No, it's right next to Stonehenge, which is near Salisbury.

[Poopadoop]

No, it's right next to Stonehenge, which is near Salisbury.

tucker confused.jpg

How does the weather near Stonehenge stop them from walking 15 minutes to Salisbury Cathedral on the 3rd?

[OngBonga]

tucker confused.jpg

How does the weather near Stonehenge stop them from walking 15 minutes to Salisbury Cathedral on the 3rd?

I would have thought the image of huge snow drifts barely outside of Salisbury would demonstrate that weather conditions were indeed challenging.

Your case seems to revolve around the idea it's fishy they didn't walk for a mile or two when soaked in sleet. You seem to think that link you provided shows it wasn't sleeting. Well those guys were wet, that isn't in dispute. So the weather was doing something.

[Poopadoop]

Also, Salisbury Cathedral is SE of the station. Why are the two Russians seen wandering around an area that's a 20 minute walk NW of the station on the 4th, near Skripal's house?

[OngBonga]

At least I have a source other than a photo from twitter of a place 10 miles N of Salisbury.

At least you read an article in the MSM and make a judgement on the guilt of two Russians in Salisbury, rather than dig around trying to make sense of it all.

There's only one thing to see in Salisbury and they walked in the opposite direction of it.

Clearly you haven't been to Salisbury either.

[Poopadoop]

At least you read an article in the MSM and make a judgement on the guilt of two Russians in Salisbury, rather than dig around trying to make sense of it all.

I don't think there's a lot that needs investigating really. Russian spy defects, gives talks about how Russian intelligence works, gets killed by nerve agent, Russian 'tourists' happen to be seen making suspicious movements at the same time. Doesn't seem to require a lot of my energy trying to see if I can find some little detail in the story that can be construed a different way if I put a tinfoil hat on.

That said, I'm open to actual EVIDENCE that all is not what it seems. You just haven't given me any.

Clearly you haven't been to Salisbury either.

Actually I have, twice. And I stand by what I say.

Name another attraction that exists there.

[OngBonga]

Name another attraction that exists there.

There's a castle to the NE.

[OngBonga]

I'm not to prove anything in a court of law; I'm deciding what to believe. I can only believe they're innocent or they're guilty, and I'm going with the weight of probability that it's suspicious.

I believe it's suspicious, but it's not the Russians I'm suspicious of.

What's your proof of this?

lol the word "novichok" is no longer on the Porton Down wikipedia page, and vice versa. I'll find something, bear with me.

[Poopadoop]

lol the word "novichok" is no longer on the Porton Down wikipedia page, and vice versa.

tucker confused.jpg

[OngBonga]

No-one goes wandering around residential streets on holiday. Look at a map of Salisbury. All Ye olde stuff is south and east of the station, not the north and west.

There are no photos that place them in a residential estate, only near one. On an A-road.


https://news.sky.com/story/salisbury...ttack-11491730

[Poopadoop]

There are no photos that place them in a residential estate, only near one. On an A-road.

https://news.sky.com/story/salisbury...ttack-11491730[/QUOTE]


Maybe they saw the camera inside and thought, let's stop here for a few seconds to give the impression we're really tourists and not contract killers for GRU.

[OngBonga]

Maybe they saw the camera inside? Are they walking sideways? Can you fuck me sideways please?

[OngBonga]

They would want out of the UK asap, because once they are back home in Russia, they are safe. That would be all they gave a fuck about, not whether or not they look fishy in retrospect.

[Poopadoop]

They would want out of the UK asap, because once they are back home in Russia, they are safe. That would be all they gave a fuck about, not whether or not they look fishy in retrospect.

They can't make the train run any faster or leave the station sooner though can they? What's the point of rushing back to the station?

Also, why would they be afraid of being caught? They've got their awesome alibi (according to you) and they don't have any nerve agent on them anymore, so what's the evidence they would be held on?

You know those CCTV images aren't being processed in real time, right? The police aren't all like 'oh this guy's been poisoned. pull up the CCTV cameras right now and see if there's any Russians walking around with those big furry hats.'

[OngBonga]

You think walking around aimlessly is fishy, but looking in a shop window casually after committing a serious crime is standard.

Dear me.

[OngBonga]

Fuck me.

[OngBonga]

I mean you seem to think because Putin didn't send a helicopter to take them straight from Skripal's front door back to Moscow is somehow evidence of their innocence.

The evidence of their inocence for me is the complete lack of evidence that is being presented as evidence form the British authorities and the MSM.

And that since the UK produces deadly nerve agents (like every other country does), it uses them to kill former Russian spies who've defected to the UK, putting their own citizens at risk, just so they can blame the resulting drop in tourism in Salisbury on Putin.

lol nice, we did this just to blame Putin for a drop in tourism. That's geopolitics in a nutshell.

To what end? Oh I know, so they can build a new submarine that they were going to build anyway.

Ah so you are actually aware of what this really is all about.

And now that you've got it in your head the UK will happily endanger and panic its own citizens in some sleepy tourist town just to make Putin look bad (because his public image was so good up till then), everything else is just part of the cover up.

You have way too much trust in government.

[Poopadoop]

The evidence of their inocence for me is the complete lack of evidence that is being presented as evidence form the British authorities and the MSM.

There's a lot of circumstantial evidence. Their story is fishy and full of holes. They're spotted near Skripal's house.

Ah so you are actually aware of what this really is all about.

I know what YOU think it's all about, yes. And I contend we were never NOT going to build that submarine or spend too much on defense. This 'false flag' story wasn't necessary or even beneficial. Is there evidence the submarine building programme was in trouble before, but now it's got the green light because of this?

You have way too much trust in government.

Not really, but I trust them more than I trust Putin. They don't try to bump off political rivals, or bump off anyone in the press or public eye who opposes them.

[OngBonga]

Well simply by looking at google maps, I could see how I could quickly find myself going in the "wrong direction", ending up on the A-road. It's not remotely fishy.

[OngBonga]

You already had it in your head the UK gov't did this as a false flag thing. So it's not surprising you're now looking for any holes in the story you can find, or any reason to distrust the gov't or MSM version of things.

You do realise we're doing exactly the same thing? You decided they're guilty, so you're looking for holes in their story.

The difference for me is, there's more holes in our story than theirs.

[Poopadoop]

You do realise we're doing exactly the same thing? You decided they're guilty, so you're looking for holes in their story.

I haven't decided anything. I'm simply presenting reasons why the Russian guys' activities were suspicious to me. You're the one trying to answer all these suspicions with whatever pops into your head.

The difference for me is, there's more holes in our story than theirs.

I think there are missing parts to our story, where evidence is lacking. There's no evidence they had the poison on them or applied it to the door of Skripal's house. So it's hardly case closed.

But the lack of some key evidence is not evidence the rest of the story is a fabrication. And the inconsistencies in the Russian guys' story are quite suspicious.

[OngBonga]

The thing with train stations is, maps don't tell you which platform you get off at. You could be on the north or the south, and you follow the signs that say "way out". So you either get dumped on the A36 on the North, and turn right to head in the "right direction", or you come out on the south side and turn left. I have no idea which side they came out of. If it's the south, it's really easy to fuck that up. Probably harder from the north.

[Poopadoop]

I'm not saying it's impossible to get lost. I'm saying it's funny they got lost in a way that took them in a direction towards the scene of the crime.

[OngBonga]

I'm not saying it's impossible to get lost. I'm saying it's funny they got lost in a way that took them in a direction towards the scene of the crime.

Do we know if they were even walking in the direction of the Skirpals'? I don't. They could come out of the station, turn right, then turn right again, then they hit the A36... from there, left to the Skirpals', right to town. Maybe they went right there.

I don't know. I bet you don't either.

[oskar]

Why is the proximity to the factory where the nerve agent was allegedly produced of any importance? If someone gets shot with german made bullets, do you think it's more likely the killer was german? Would it be even more likely if the bullet factory was really close? How does that make any sense?
How do you think that plays out? You can send a package from anywhere in the world to basically anywhere within 24 hours, but you think the people who buy nerve agent for political assassinations shop local? To what end? Support local business? And then make sure that the factory is nearby so... so what? So you can bicycle over to the factory, get yer nerve agent, politically assassinate someone and be back home in time for tea? Explain yourself!

[OngBonga]

The fact there was an alleged poisoning from a nerve agent is rare enough. If it was the Russians, it's the first time they've used a nerve agent on UK soil.

That it happened a few miles from our primary military-grade chemical weapons lab, I mean really. How many labs like this do you think we have?

[Poopadoop]

The fact there was an alleged poisoning from a nerve agent is rare enough. If it was the Russians, it's the first time they've used a nerve agent on UK soil.

That it happened a few miles from our primary military-grade chemical weapons lab, I mean really. How many labs like this do you think we have?

I find this proximity argument pretty lame too. Unless you can show the nerve agent degrades with kilometers from where it's produced, it seems completely irrelevant.

[oskar]

The fact there was an alleged poisoning from a nerve agent is rare enough. If it was the Russians, it's the first time they've used a nerve agent on UK soil.

That it happened a few miles from our primary military-grade chemical weapons lab, I mean really. How many labs like this do you think we have?

Do you think they somehow coerced the targets into getting really close to the nerve agent factory so the nerve agent man didn't have to walk too far to deliver the nerve agent?

Or was it coincidental like: oh, they're close to the nerve agent factory, let's kill 'em with that then! Their original plan was the piano factory, but then the targets got lost and there was a change of plans?

[Poopadoop]

Their original plan was the piano factory, but then the targets got lost and there was a change of plans?

Come on Oskar, use your head. The nearest piano factory is in Edinburgh. Also the main bullet factory is in Manchester so they couldn't use a gun ldo.

There is, however, a bus factory in Salisbury which is even closer than the secret nerve agent place. I'm a bit surprised they didn't run him over with a bus frankly. But I guess there was too much sleet, so they went to Plan B.

[OngBonga]

I don't see that. The judge looks at what is presented to him in court, he doesn't make up his mind by reading a newspaper. And we don't have jury trials here do we? So no need to worry about what Joe Public is being told in that sense.

um yes we have jury trials here, and that's precisely what they should get.

What technicality is that? There's no law saying evidence leaked to media is therefore invalid.

Members of the jury being aware of the case.

[OngBonga]

Why is the proximity to the factory where the nerve agent was allegedly produced of any importance? If someone gets shot with german made bullets, do you think it's more likely the killer was german?

cmon dude, you can hide bullets up your arse and take them wherever you like.

[Poopadoop]

cmon dude, you can hide bullets up your arse and take them wherever you like.

But you can't hide a nerve agent? Why is that?

[OngBonga]

But you can't hide a nerve agent? Why is that?

Because it's fucking dangerous. Would you put Novichok up your arse? No amount of money would do it for me.

[Poopadoop]

Because it's fucking dangerous. Would you put Novichok up your arse? No amount of money would do it for me.

You don't carry it on an international flight unless it's very well-disguised, not shoved up your ass ('cause that's not suspicious at all having a vial up your ass).

[OngBonga]

I can't actually believe you guys think moving a highly toxic nerve agent around is the same as carrying bullets.

The further you travel with nerve agents, the greater the risk of an accident. At the very least, if it was the British who did this, we seem to have at least taken some measures to minimise the risks.

[OngBonga]

Back to the pics of them gawping at coins after they did the deed... they don't seem particularly concerned that they might have come into contact with a highly toxic nerve agent.

So if they aren't concerned about their own health, my guess is they were protected. Either that or they were completely unaware of the shitstorm that was brewing.

[Poopadoop]

Back to the pics of them gawping at coins after they did the deed... they don't seem particularly concerned that they might have come into contact with a highly toxic nerve agent.

It's not like 'ooh some of that deadly nerve agent might have got on me, i'd better go wash my hands.' it's like 'good job i didn't get any on me, or i'd be in my death throes right now. Ok, let's go pretend to be tourists while we wait for the train.'

[OngBonga]

It's not like 'ooh some of that deadly nerve agent might have got on me, i'd better go wash my hands.' it's like 'good job i didn't get any on me, or i'd be in my death throes right now. Ok, let's go pretend to be tourists while we wait for the train.'

Yeah, this is the agent that stays on door knobs for hours, in wet conditions, and is still verry much dangerous. They could only be confident there isn't any on their clothes if they protected their clothes. Or if they had a really safe way of applying it to the door knob. idk, but these guys aren't sweating. I fucking would be, even if I had a full hazmat suit.

[Poopadoop]

Yeah, this is the agent that stays on door knobs for hours, in wet conditions, and is still verry much dangerous. They could only be confident there isn't any on their clothes if they protected their clothes. Or if they had a really safe way of applying it to the door knob. idk, but these guys aren't sweating. I fucking would be, even if I had a full hazmat suit.

You think these guys must be experts in chemical weapons? You really think a spy is going to stop to put on a hazmat suit?

Probably all they would be told is 'hey comrades, you go spray this on his door, then dump the bottle in a bin. Then catch the next train back. And don't get any on you or you die. And if you don't do it, you and your family die. Have fun boys'

[OngBonga]

You think them walking in what you call "the wrong direction" is fishy, yet you ignore the very compelling circumstational evidence that they don't appear to have any concerns about their health or if the police are already after them.

[OngBonga]

You know what? It's not Novichok that was created in Porton Down, it's that one the bitches used to kill Kim's brother.

VX is it?

[OngBonga]

So to borrow a British phrase, the nerve agent used to kill Kim's brother was "of a type developed by Britain".

That makes us guilty as fuck, right?

[Poopadoop]

So to borrow a British phrase, the nerve agent used to kill Kim's brother was "of a type developed by Britain".

That makes us guilty as fuck, right?

tucker confused.jpg

[OngBonga]

Novichok is a group of nerve agents developed in Ukraine, when it was part of the USSR. The lab where it was created was dismantled by the Yanks, after independance.

I remember now.

[oskar]

I can't actually believe you guys think moving a highly toxic nerve agent around is the same as carrying bullets.

The further you travel with nerve agents, the greater the risk of an accident. At the very least, if it was the British who did this, we seem to have at least taken some measures to minimise the risks.

Oh I'm sorry, I thought we had already invented a device to safely hold a liquid. I guess I was thinking of futuretown in futureworld where future men walk around with their magic liquid and gas tight containment devices. Honest mistake. I guess until we have invented the resealable encapsulator, we're going to have to have the local egg race champion farry the nerve agent on a fucking wooden spoon.

You're talking absolute shit!

[Poopadoop]

Nononono, it's nearly impossible to travel any distance holding a bottle without something happening to make the bottle break and spill whatever is inside it all over the place. Haven't you ever heard of car accidents and people falling over while holding the bottle in their hand?

[OngBonga]

The idea they would just dump the agent without a care is also ridiculous. If this was a Kremlin hit on a Russian enemy, then you would imagine there would be strict orders from the top to not be fucking sloppy. Do you seriously think Putin would accept the risk of a nerve agent killing lots of British people on British soil? That would be very serious indeed, and not in Russia's best interests.

So no, they would not dump a perfume bottle in a bin. They would have a better plan.

It's interesting these guys aren't ill. They would surely have got noticed wearing hamzat suits outside the Skirpal's house. Funny no one saw that.

[Poopadoop]

they would not dump a perfume bottle in a bin. They would have a better plan.

Such as? Take it back to Russia with them through the airport?

It's interesting these guys aren't ill. They would surely have got noticed wearing hamzat suits outside the Skirpal's house. Funny no one saw that.

Ikr. And these girls didn't get sick either. It's crazy that when you spray a nerve agent on something or someone else it doesn't kill you just for holding the bottle it was in. It's almost as if the bottle somehow protects you from what's inside of it.

[OngBonga]

Such as? Take it back to Russia with them through the airport?

Nope, that's obviously also a bad plan. Maybe they could destroy it. I've no idea what happens when you mix Novichock with concentrated sulphuric acid, but I'll bet the Russians know. I don't know how to make Novichok safe, but dumping it isn't something I would be thinking about, not if I gave a shit about the potential consequences.

[OngBonga]

Ikr. And these girls didn't get sick either. It's crazy that when you spray a nerve agent on something or someone else it doesn't kill you just for holding the bottle it was in. It's almost as if the bottle somehow protects you from what's inside of it.

For a start, these are different nerve agents. Secondly, I'll bet these bitches were shitting themselves. I haven't seen images of them chilling out shortly afterwards.

[Poopadoop]

For a start, these are different nerve agents. Secondly, I'll bet these bitches were shitting themselves. I haven't seen images of them chilling out shortly afterwards.

VX fatalities occur with exposure to tens of milligram quantities via inhalation or absorption through skin;

So basically, if you get it on you, you're dead. It's not like you have take 10 deep breaths before it will kill you.

And how do you think the stuff in the UK got from Porton Down to Skripal's door without anyone else dying then, if it's so impossible to transport it without killing everyone in-between point A and point B? And for that matter how did they get VX to the aiport without killing everyone in-between?

This whole idea you can't safely transport a minute quantity of a nerve agent a long distance is just dumb; give it up. All you need is a bottle with a lid on it.

[OngBonga]

And how do you think the stuff in the UK got from Porton Down to Skripal's door without anyone else dying then, if it's so impossible to transport it without killing everyone in-between point A and point B? And for that matter how did they get VX to the aiport without killing everyone in-between?

Strawman alert. I didn't say it's impossible, I said the risks go up the further you travel with it.

[Poopadoop]

I didn't say it's impossible, I said the risks go up the further you travel with it.

And your conclusion was it must have come from Porton Down then 'cause that's close by, and it must have been the UK that supplied it.

Brilliant.

[OngBonga]

And your conclusion was it must have come from Porton Down then 'cause that's close by, and it must have been the UK that supplied it.

Brilliant.

Yes because it all revolves around how close Porton Down is to Salisbury, nothing at all to do with the political shitstorm that followed. Nothing at all to do with the fact our story makes no fucking sense. Nothing at all do to with the fact that there are a billion better ways for Russia to eliminate their enemies, especially ones that were swapped with the British in a spy-swap.

[Poopadoop]

Yes because it all revolves around how close Porton Down is to Salisbury,

You brought that up, not me. And if you're going to kill a guy on foreign soil, all you have to do is point out it's easier to get the stuff nearby than for it to come from your country. Brilliant, your defense is impregnable.

nothing at all to do with the political shitstorm that followed. Nothing at all to do with the fact our story makes no fucking sense.

What doesn't make sense exactly? If they were framing these guys, why not have a 'neighbor' who saw them spray the stuff? Why not have a mole that can testify he was in on it? Why is the evidence entirely circumstantial?

Nothing at all do to with the fact that there are a billion better ways for Russia to eliminate their enemies, especially ones that were swapped with the British in a spy-swap.

...and who were openly blabbing about Russian intelligence practices.

And it seems the nerve agent did a pretty good job to me. Spies got away and are safely back home, Skripal lost his daughter, and message was sent to anyone else who wants to fuck with Putin. How would you prefer they do it?

[OngBonga]

You think these guys must be experts in chemical weapons? You really think a spy is going to stop to put on a hazmat suit?

They're allegedly Russian spies. Experts in checmical weapons? More so than you and me, certainly.

No, theyw on't put a hazmat suit on, hence they would be shitting bricks after doing the deed.

[OngBonga]

What if a meteor falls on your head? What if you have a heart attack on the way to do the deed? What if you get chased by a dog?

Fuck me, from things that can actually happen, to fucking meteors. You're not this dumb poop.

[OngBonga]

If you think they don't consider what can go wrong when transporting deadly agents, then please don't ever get a job is risk assessment.

[Poopadoop]

If you think they don't consider what can go wrong when transporting deadly agents, then please don't ever get a job is risk assessment.

Sure they do, that's why they put them in sealed bottles rather than carry them around in an open flask.

What exact preventative measures do you expect them to use while they're trying to secretly poison someone without getting caught? I assume we can at least agree the hazmat suit is not a realistic option?

[OngBonga]

Sure they do, that's why they put them in sealed bottles rather than carry them around in an open flask.

What exact preventative measures do you expect them to use while they're trying to secretly poison someone without getting caught? I assume we can at least agree the hazmat suit is not a realistic option?

I have no idea, but if I were applying Novichok to a door knob unprotected, I'd want to clean myself up asafp. Emphasis on the letter f.

My point is, these guys are not behaving as though they have just applied Novichok to a door knob. Maybe they're just really fucking good at their jobs.

Apart from their casual disposal of the agent in question, of course.

[Poopadoop]

I have no idea, but if I were applying Novichok to a door knob unprotected, I'd want to clean myself up asafp. Emphasis on the letter f.

You're not getting it though. If you get some on you, you don't have an hour to wash it off, after which you'll be fine. The plan is to not get any on you.

Those guys investigating the scene are wearing hazmat suits because they don't know where the stuff is exactly. The risk of exposure to them is much greater than to someone spraying it on a door with a bottle from a foot away. Sure, I wouldn't want the spraying job either, but if I did it and wasn't feeling sick afterwards, I wouldn't then assume I needed to go find a decontamination centre somewhere in Salisbury.

My point is, these guys are not behaving as though they have just applied Novichok to a door knob. Maybe they're just really fucking good at their jobs.

Maybe because they're sociopaths, like the kind that become contract killers for an intelligence agency. IOW, they don't fucking care that they poisoned someone.

Also, if they're spies, then they're trained in how not to look suspicious.

Apart from their casual disposal of the agent in question, of course.

You still haven't provided a plausible alternative for what they should have done with it.

[OngBonga]

What message was sent? Don't fuck with Russia?

Russia have never, ever attacked a Russian citizen who has been the subject of a spy-swap. With very good reason. See if you can figure out that reason.

Once you've done that, you'll realise the message they sent would be a very dumb message.

[OngBonga]

I already thought of a better way to dispose of it. Put it in a sealed box, bury it, get back to Russia, tell the British where it is, whilst publically denying any knowledge.

Again I'm assuming Putin is merely trying to kill Skirpal here, and not cause an international crisis.

[BananaStand]

Seems I need to catch up because some one thinks he can go around calling people 'clowns' and "tools of epic proportions" can suddenly be hurt and offended to the point of banhammering when the same thing happens to him.

Monkey - It got personal between us. And you're hurt. I get it. I'm also not sorry. Your hammer-swinging is just an immature reaction to being called out. Grow the fuck up.

Moving on....

The serena cartoon showed nothing more than a caricatured version of ACTUAL events.

LOOK!! USE YOUR GODDAMN EYEBALLS!!



Osaka clearly has a darker skin tone than the ref. That's obvious. USE YOUR GODDAMN EYEBALLS. So claims of "whitewashing" her are completely erroneous.

Yes Osaka has dark hair, but the ends are blond. The lengths of hair that extend from the base of the pony-tail ARE ALL BLONDE

USE YOUR GODDAMN EYEBALLS



What about the artist's depiction is inaccurate?

Who says Serena's features are exaggerated? Her body is drawn as that of a thick, muscular, amazonian black woman. That is exactly what she is in real life.

Her facial features are depicted in a way that shows anger and disgust. Mouth open, tounge visible, eyes squinted, nose wrinkled...these are all things people do when they are angry and handling it in an immature manner. The artist made an easily interpretable depiction of a tantrum in Serena's face.

And her jumping, "like a monkey".....that's YOUR observation Jack. That's you inventing an dehumanizing act because you want to. Jumping up and down, stomping on the ground, and flailing your arms are all actions consistent with a tantrum.

Moving on....

Manafort pleading guilty means nothing. If he had the dirt on Trump he would have pled guilty the first time around. All this means is that he knows he is going to lose. That probably has something to do with him losing the first time. I'll bet prosecutors wouldn't let Manafort plead out unless he agreed to "cooperate with Mueller" so they can get their names in the paper. So I'm sure Manafort said whatever he had to.

But "cooperate with Mueller" doesn't mean anything. He could go to Mueller and say "I know nothing" and Mueller will say "Thanks for your cooperation"

Manafort is pleading guilty to new charges, in a new jurisdiction. This is separate from the trial he just went through. The trial he just went through is over, and settled. Manafort is going to jail for the rest of his life because of it. That's already done and settled. His ONLY hope is a pardon, and he probably won't get that by making up stories about Trump.

[Poopadoop]

aaargh.jpg

Good to have your input on this.

Manafort pleading guilty means nothing. If he had the dirt on Trump he would have pled guilty the first time around. All this means is that he knows he is going to lose. That probably has something to do with him losing the first time. I'll bet prosecutors wouldn't let Manafort plead out unless he agreed to "cooperate with Mueller". So I'm sure Manafort said whatever he had to.

But "cooperate with Mueller" doesn't mean anything. He could go to Mueller and say "I know nothing" and Mueller will say "Thanks for your cooperation"

Manafort is pleading guilty to new charges, in a new jurisdiction. This is separate from the trial he just went through. The trial he just went through is over, and settled. Manafort is going to jail for the rest of his life because of it. That's already done and settled. His ONLY hope is a pardon, and he probably won't get that by making up stories about Trump.

Pretty much word for word what Guiliani said.

Here's another possibility: Manafort is looking for leniency from the courts. He also knows Trump is fucked one way or another, and won't be pardoning anyone by the time this is over. So his Plan A (get a pardon) is a bust; he's moving to Plan B (give up Trump).

[BananaStand]

Here's another possibility: Manafort is looking for leniency from the courts. He also knows Trump is fucked one way or another, and won't be pardoning anyone by the time this is over. So his Plan A (get a pardon) is a bust; he's moving to Plan B (give up Trump).

I simply don't believe that getting a pardon was ever Manafort's plan A, plan H, plan X, or plan BBBHTYQQ77X-53Y.

Just the optics of that could be enough to ruin Trump's chances in 2020. And Manfort is too old to wait to 2024. And even if he wasn't...Trump is also pretty old and probably gets 10,000 death threats a day. I wouldn't bank on that guy living another 6 years. I don't see any plausible angle where Manafort would decide that it's a viable plan to try and play for a pardon. It's really a silly notion.

The only grumblings on this subject at all have been WILD media speculation regarding Trump's tweet. He said that Manafort was being treated unfairly, etc etc etc. And the lefties are now ASSUMING that means that Trump is considering a pardon. Cuz pretending is fun I guess.

And you say "give up Trump".....HOW?

Manafort worked for Trump for about 5 minutes. what could he possibly know?

He was at the Trump Tower meeting with Jr and the Russian lawyer. It seems that everybody already knows what happened there. It's not a crime. and Trump wasn't even there.

It's also alleged in the Steele dossier that Manafort personally brokered the deal with Putin's agents to hack the DNC and Podesta in return for favorable treatment of Russian interests. It's also alleged that Carter Paige was in the room with him. Carter Paige spent a year under an FBI microscope and isn't even charged with speeding. What could Manafort possibly have to say?

[Poopadoop]

I simply don't believe that getting a pardon was ever Manafort's plan A, plan H, plan X, or plan BBBHTYQQ77X-53Y.

Just the optics of that could be enough to ruin Trump's chances in 2020. And Manfort is too old to wait to 2024.

Not sure where you get 2024 from. Worst-case, Manafort under Plan A would only have to sit in prison till the day after election day 2020. Seems preferable to the rest of his life.

[BananaStand]

Not sure where you get 2024 from. Worst-case, Manafort under Plan A would only have to sit in prison till the day after election day 2020. Seems preferable to the rest of his life.

Please re-join reality.

If that's what Trump did the day after re-inauguration, he'd effectively torpedo any legislative agenda he could possibly have. No congressman would ever associate with any idea Trump ever has after that.

[OngBonga]

The notion that highly trained assassins would be exhibiting any overt signs of stress or fear before, during, or after doing their job is beyond me.

They would surely show a desire to leave the scene as quickly as possible though, right? As far as they know, Skirpal is already in trouble in his front garden with the police on their way. Why hang around? If they have half an hour to kill, go hide in a pub by the station and drink some vodka. Gawping at coins is ridiculous, considering what they just did.

[Poopadoop]

They would surely show a desire to leave the scene as quickly as possible though, right? As far as they know, Skirpal is already in trouble in his front garden with the police on their way. Why hang around? If they have half an hour to kill, go hide in a pub by the station and drink some vodka. Gawping at coins is ridiculous, considering what they just did.

Anything they do that doesn't involve running as fast as they can to the train station is prima facie a bad idea, except inasmuch as it looks suspicious if they're seen running as fast as they can to the train station.

And if they have no way to leave before the train comes, it doesn't really matter where they are or what they're doing before it's time to catch the train. In fact, the less innocuous their behaviour looks, the better.

The only place they shouldn't be is near Skripal's house.

[MadMojoMonkey]

The notion that highly trained assassins would be exhibiting any overt signs of stress or fear before, during, or after doing their job is beyond me.

Equally much is the notion that those people would be working under threat to their families if they did not succeed. That sounds like a good way to have disloyal assassins whom will screw you over the minute they can find a way to do so while saving their families. Much better to have someone with a Nanners-level of loyalty to their national leader, but with a personal sense of honor, whom will gladly die in service to their country.

but what do I know about Russian assassins?

I'm not taking any side in whether or not they did it.

[Poopadoop]

The notion that highly trained assassins would be exhibiting any overt signs of stress or fear before, during, or after doing their job is beyond me.

That's kinda a major job requirement; don't shit your pants under stress.

Equally much is the notion that those people would be working under threat to their families if they did not succeed.

I was being facetious there.

[OngBonga]

You're not getting it though. If you get some on you, you don't have an hour to wash it off, after which you'll be fine. The plan is to not get any on you.

They're super confident they haven't got any on them.

Sure, I wouldn't want the spraying job either, but if I did it and wasn't feeling sick afterwards, I wouldn't then assume I needed to go find a decontamination centre somewhere in Salisbury.

I would need to change my underwear.

You still haven't provided a plausible alternative for what they should have done with it.

Sure I have. Fucking bury it. That's literally the first thing that comes to mind. After that, you can anonymously alert the British to its location.

Or destroy it by, idk, adding acid or setting it on fire, whatever works quickly and safely. There must be a way.

Yes. it's "if we do a spy swap and you get to go free, don't go around giving speeches about how our intel system works. Dumb fuck."

They're going to risk their entire spy-swap programme for a single guy because he's publically talking about intel that he most certainly already told the British authorities in private about?

Nah. Spy-swaps are WAY too important.

[Poopadoop]

They're super confident they haven't got any on them.

Presumably because they're eyeballs aren't spinning around to the back of their heads. They don't even have a tummy ache.

I would need to change my underwear.

So would I. But we're not sociopath spy killers.

Sure I have. Fucking bury it.

Where are they going to bury it, on Salisbury high street? What do they dig the hole with? Why do something that's going to attract attention like digging a hole, when you can throw a small object in a bin without attracting any attention at all?

That's literally the first thing that comes to mind. After that, you can anonymously alert the British to its location.

What? What kind of spy are you? They don't WANT anyone else to get sick, but they don't really gaf if they do either.

Or destroy it by, idk, adding acid or setting it on fire, whatever works quickly and safely. There must be a way.

Again, why attract attention to yourself by starting a fire in public? Or sitting there in public mixing chemicals (assuming that would even work)?

They're going to risk their entire spy-swap programme for a single guy because he's publically talking about intel that he most certainly already told the British authorities in private about?

Nah. Spy-swaps are WAY too important.

They're important to both sides, right? Or does Russia somehow lose more by not swapping than the UK does?