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Originally Posted by cocco
Sergei Yushenkov, Yuri Shchekochikhin, Alexander Litvinenko, Galina Starovoitova, Anna Politkovskaya, Paul Klebnikov and others might disagree.
The first two guys, that's the Salisbury poisoning and it makes absolutely no sense. The Litvinenko case I actually believe was a Russian state attack. The others, I'm not immediately familiar with by name. I guess one of them is the individual who turned up in a suitcase, that one seemed legit too. There was one fairly recently where an activist turned up ill on a plane. Wasn't buying that one. But I can only speculate. That Salisbury one though, I've read a fair amount about that and it's just a huge crock of shit.
The Russians are definitely capable of having a pop at those they deem to be enemies of the state. Don't assume that because I think we milked the fuck out of the Salisbury incident, that I believe every incident is a false flag. I don't believe that.
This actually made me laugh. Remember how we invaded Afghanistan after a bunch of Saudis apparently flew planes into American buildings? I say apparently because I find it staggering that their passports survived, allowing them to be identified, which is a common theme in these kind of incidents. They should make planes out of whatever they make passports out of. I digress.
Really messy situation. First war, they tried to leave Russia when the USSR collapsed. They partially succeeded, creating a de facto independent state. Putin came into power and took back control. These were terrible wars. If I had to choose a moral position here it would be on the side of democratic self determination, but I'm not surprised Russia considered this to be a red line.
Very much geopolitical. They wanted to join NATO, so Russia took control of all but one of their Black Sea ports. A shitty thing to do, but a consequence of NATO expansion. I'm not sure what the people of these regions in Georgia wanted, but if they want to leave Georgia, then again we come back to democratic self determination.
indiscriminate civilian bombings in Syria
You made me laugh again. Why are you presenting evidence of "Russia bad" when we've done precisely this?
Yeah you don't hear about what our soldiers get up to in war zones because the media supress the real shitty stuff. The Russians are worse when it comes to this kind of stuff though. That's always been the case, it's why, after the British bombed the fuck out of Hamburg for years during WWII, that the locals were delighted it was the British occupying the city when Germany surrendered. People were fleeing Russian occupation into British controlled areas.
execution and torture of civilians
Again, we do this kind of thing. Remember Guantanamo Bay? We were literally plucking random people and shipping them to Cuba for detention and torture. Some died. This isn't a one off. There are detention camps at Diego Garcia, a place we ethnically cleansed so we could build a military base.
attacks against schools and hospitals and goddamn nuclear plants
What happens when the enemy hides in schools and hospitals?
And the nuclear incident, I watched that happening live, it seemed to me that the Russians were firing away from the reactors. They were attacking the security building at the entrance to the plant. Blown out of proportion because it's a nuclear facility.
which other current country or regime would you expect these kind of actions from?
USA, UK, France.
You know it was a Frenchman who killed Gadaffi, right? Sodomised by a gun. Western regime change in action. Rumours were that Gadaffi was preparing to expose Blair, Bush and (I think) Macron for knowingly and corruptly accepting dirty Libyan money. Who knows if this is true? It certainly wouldn't surprise me.
Maybe, just maybe, Russia has actually given people multiple good reasons over decades and centuries to hate them.
I don't dispute this. But we've given the rest of the world reason to hate us too. And many do hate us.
The difference being use or lack thereof of systematic human rights violations and war crimes.
We commit "systematic human rights violations and war crimes". Diego Garcia, Gadaffi, Assange, these are examples I've already given. There's plenty more.
Could you point to just one source that would justify questioning what happened in Syria?
Sure. Former British Ambassador Craig Murray, an expert on geopolitics and a man with insider contacts. He resigned when the British ignored his protests about us knowingly using Uzbek torture information to help shape foreign policy. At the time, Craig was Ambassador to Uzbekistan, so very well placed to know what was happening. Anyway, here's his comments about Syria...
https://truepublica.org.uk/contribut...probabilities/
He has a lot more to say about this matter, and indeed the Salisbury poisoning incident, google his name and whatever you're interested in, ie "Craig Murray Salisbury".
btw, just because a body has "independent" in its official title, doesn't mean it's truly independent. We're really good at this kind of propaganda, making people believe that investigative bodies are independent from the state. Rarely is that actually true.
but to say that the reporting of BBC, NYTimes and RIA Novosti are equally bad is to me laughable.
I dunno about RIA Novosti but I can tell you that I consider the BBS and Russia Today to be equals. The only difference is Russia Today don't pretend to be independent from the state.
Btw re: the Salisbury poisoning, what exactly are you referring to? I'm assuming this:
Yes. Craig Murray tears this story to pieces, it's worth a read. Here's one of his many articles on the matter...
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...-of-salisbury/
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