*** Official Putin Started Shootin' Thread ***

[OngBonga]

Don't think you appreciate how close WWII was. Germany had a very very good army.

I don't think you appreciate how vast Russia is, and how hardy their people are. Sure Germany had a very good army, but no army in the world is defeating Russia by invading. Not then, not now. It would require non-conventional warfare to defeat them. Like Japan in WWII, only Russia are ten times the military power Japan were.

There's a reason we chose to nuke Japan instead of invade. That too is an impossible country to invade, it's just too mountainous.

Geography matters more than the size and skill of an army.

As you know, we're not only sending arms to the minority of Nazi regiments in the Ukrainian armed forces, we're sending it to the whole country's armed forces, most of whom aren't Nazis.

Oh there's only a few of them, that's ok then.

No it's not ok. This "minority" are responsible for crucifictions of Muslims. And we don't even know how much of a "minority" we're talking about. I've shown one battalion, you think that's the extent of the problem? I don't.

Whoa whoa whoa Mujombo. Let Russia gain territory in an aggressive war?

Why not? We let Israel get away with it. We wage aggressive wars ourselves in the name of geopolitics. What right have we got to tell Russia they can't do it? This isn't our fight. If we're going to stop Russia, then we should stop everyone who tries to gain territory. It doesn't seem logical to pick and choose who we allow to expand. Unless, of course, we have our own geopolitical interests, which is of course precisely why we oppose Russia but not Israel.

He's just going to see we caved, wait a couple of years, come up with another excuse, and go back and take another chunk out of Ukraine, or maybe the rest of it.

I think Putin is finding out right now that taking Ukraine will not happen. The eastern regions might want Russian influence, but the west doesn't. They won't accept it. It will require constant troops on the ground, and it will be a long war. Nobody wants that, not Ukraine, not Russia, nobody.

It's not destroying the global economy.

I guess you haven't been to the petrol pumps in a few days.

The morality of the issue isn't questioned by anyone but you afaik.

I'm not the only person who has a moral problem arming Nazis. And I'm not the only person who has a moral problem with the West's hypocrisy.

[Poopadoop]

I don't think you appreciate how vast Russia is, and how hardy their people are. Sure Germany had a very good army, but no army in the world is defeating Russia by invading.

I mean I don't really want to get in a debate with a guy who doesn't know who fought on which side when in most wars, but yeah I do appreciate how vast Russia is. I also know about 70% of it is tundra and frozen forests. You don't win a war by holding onto tundra.

Germany came close to taking the USSR's three biggest cities in WWII. They seiged Leningrad for three years, they got to the outskirts of Moscow, they occupied 90% of Stalingrand. We were basically throwing them life preservers of supplies the whole time. They wouldn't have made it without our help, guaranteed.

In b4 you complain that we were hypocrites because the USSR army committed war crimes.

Not then, not now. It would require non-conventional warfare to defeat them. Like Japan in WWII, only Russia are ten times the military power Japan were.

Japan was the second greatest naval power in WWII after the USA, Russia was the second greatest land power after Germany. So they had different strengths, but they were both great powers then.

There's a reason we chose to nuke Japan instead of invade. That too is an impossible country to invade, it's just too mountainous.

Geography matters more than the size and skill of an army.

[Insert list of mountainous countries Germany rolled over in days in WWII.]

Yes, geography matters. But you eventually have to fight the other side to win. You can hope they forget to pack their winter boots but that isn't usually a good strategy.

Oh there's only a few of them, that's ok then.

No it's not ok. This "minority" are responsible for crucifictions of Muslims. And we don't even know how much of a "minority" we're talking about. I've shown one battalion, you think that's the extent of the problem? I don't.

What is a "crucifiction," is that like pretending to crucify someone, or is it a fake news story about crucifixion?

No-one is saying let's promote Nazism in Ukraine. There's some bad guys in their army. There's some bad guys in every army. What kind of teddy bears do you think volunteer to go to war?

Unless, of course, we have our own geopolitical interests, which is of course precisely why we oppose Russia but not Israel.

But you're saying we shouldn't try to defend those interests "because nazis."

I think Putin is finding out right now that taking Ukraine will not happen. The eastern regions might want Russian influence, but the west doesn't. They won't accept it. It will require constant troops on the ground, and it will be a long war. Nobody wants that, not Ukraine, not Russia, nobody.

I'd be surprised if he ever thought it was going to be easy. It seems more like he's throwing an escalating hissy fit than managing a well-planned out campaign. I didn't even think he would invade because he only had a fraction of his army on their border. He did anyways. It hasn't gone well, and either he should have known that but is crazy, or he did know that and doesn't care.

Even generals in other countries are scratching their heads. The first thing he should have done if he wanted to blitzkreig Ukraine is establish air supremacy. That makes the land war so much easier. He had the planes to do it. Instead he barely committed enough to contest the U air force.

I guess you haven't been to the petrol pumps in a few days.

I have. The amount i spend on gas has gone from £60 to £70 a fill. I may have to sell my house.

I'm not the only person who has a moral problem arming Nazis. And I'm not the only person who has a moral problem with the West's hypocrisy.

You're the only person I know who sees a moral equivalence between an invading army and one that has some assholes in it.