*** Official Putin Started Shootin' Thread ***

[OngBonga]

And before poop chimes in suggesting a "scaled down replica" is a crazy idea, I'm not imagining drones being flown into little skyscrapers. I'd like to see a scientific study about how much resistance molten steel and concrete offers the mass above it, and how long a pancake collapse takes once collapse is initiated. Slightly more than fuck all is the official claim.

[OngBonga]

One more thing... even if we assume those buildings were "pulled" in the context of a controlled demolition, I still think this is an amazing piece of engineering. I would expect mostly concrete dust and chunks to offer more resistance than what was offered. To deliberately pull down a massive skyscraper at nearly freefall speed is fucking ridiculous in its own right.

Let alone it happening when there's a liquid metal and some solid concrete offering some resistance.

[Poopadoop]

And before poop chimes in suggesting a "scaled down replica" is a crazy idea

Thanks for the cue.

I don't know if it's a crazy idea or not. Has anyone tried it? If it was a plausible way to test things, you'd think someone would have tried it by now.

I do know there are a lot of engineers who say the towers fell too fast, and especially building 7 which wasn't even hit. I wouldn't be shocked to find out it was a false flag.

As for the 'we'll never know' hypothesis, that was said about JFK too. A few deathbed confessions and released documents later, I think we can be pretty confident it was a coup d'etat. It sure as hell wasn't Oswald acting alone.

The reason 9/11 probably doesn't get the same scrutiny is because it so deftly placed the blame on a foreign entity, and so much of US policy followed from it, that the amount of cognitive dissonance you'd have to overcome to convince the average person it was a false flag is probably close to insurmountable.

[Poopadoop]

I think it's also hard to overestimate the amount of depravity and arrogance that makes up a lot of the US national security establishment. The CIA in particular has proven itself to be filled with "patriots" who think they know what's best for the country and that the ends always justify the means. I wouldn't put much past those nutters.

[Poopadoop]

^^

Case in point: Before he got whacked, the Joint Chiefs of Staff presented Kennedy with a plan to enact a pre-emptive nuclear strike against the USSR. The logic was that war with them was inevitable, so better to take them out now while we still had a large advantage in nuclear capability. They estimated something like 100 million Russian dead vs. 10 million US dead. Kennedy said "So we should start World War III? Thanks, but no thanks."

A lot of them then complained that he was "soft on communism."

That's the kind of mental cases were working in high level national security jobs at the time, and I'd be surprised if the mentality of those people has changed much over the years.

[Poopadoop]

https://blog.eastmanleather.com/view...ion-northwoods

In 1962, the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, headed by General Lyman Lemnitzer, unanimously proposed state-sponsored acts of terrorism on American soil, against its own citizens.

Well at least they were unanimous in their psychopathy.

[MadMojoMonkey]

I mean... there are federal laws in place which the people who wrote the laws said on the evening news shows that those laws were written to persecute black Americans. Those laws were left on the books... for decades... and no one is making any waves to change them.

Many laws in the US are systematically written to criminalize social behaviors more associated with black communities than white communities. The point of those laws is to make otherwise lesser crimes into felony crimes, which strips the convicted criminal of their right to vote.

The American legal system is designed to persecute non-white cultural vices much harder than white cultural vices in an effort to put more voting power into white American citizens than the population share would grant.


So on the one hand, it's a meme that the US chose to use domestic terrorism that one time in the 60's.
On the other hand, while the visuals have changed, the goals behind those laws have largely not changed.

[OngBonga]

It's all fun and games in Niger. The pro-Western government has been overthrown in a coup, replaced by a pro-Russian junta. Anti-French sentiment is so high in their former African colonies (I use the word "former" generously there) that they'd rather be colonised by Russian mercenaries.

Maybe they don't realise that the Russians are also only interested in Niger resources.

I do find it funny though how the UK is considered the bad guy of the world, especially by pro-remainers, when it comes to colonialism, despite the fact our empire is virtually gone, while France, a major EU country, continue a policy of soft colonialism in Africa. Where does the bulk of their uranium come from for their nuclear power plants? Niger, that's where. Not for much longer. France has an energy crisis coming by the looks of it.

[OngBonga]

Meanwhile, Ukraine launches drones at Moscow, breaking a few windows, which Russia calls "terrorism", while at the same time Russia send drones to Kharkiv which causes the partial collapse of a college dorm, which of course isn't terrorism.

The word terrorism has lost all its impact. Now it just means "an attack by an enemy". Russia called Ukraine's attack on the Crimea bridge terrorism too, like a critical bridge supplying troops in an occupied territory isn't a legitimate target.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Nevermind the Russian bombing of civilian infrastructure including churches, schools, hospitals, and busy malls.




Russia boasts to have kidnapped 700,000 Ukrainian children.
This is 10% of Ukraine's ~7 million children.
This is genocide.

But sure... cry about the "terrorism" of the people you attacked and are actively committing genocide upon.

Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. These acts fall into five categories:

1. Killing members of the group
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

There are a number of other serious, violent crimes that do not fall under the specific definition of genocide. They include crimes against humanity, war crimes, ethnic cleansing, and mass killing.

source:
https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-preve...at-is-genocide

[OngBonga]

Well it's not genocide until it's proven. Kidnapping 7 million children seems pointless, and a massive use of resources, so I find that somewhat hard to believe.

But yes there is certainly a massive dose of Russian hypocrisy in their rhetoric.

As for bombing civilian infrastructure, that's going to depend on the circumstances. Let's assume we have a school being used as a makeshift barracks. That makes it a legitimate target. Not saying that's what's happened, but it has to be considered.

[Poopadoop]

I do find it funny though how the UK is considered the bad guy of the world, especially by pro-remainers, when it comes to colonialism, despite the fact our empire is virtually gone, while France, a major EU country, continue a policy of soft colonialism in Africa.

I don't think people believe British colonialism was really any worse or better than that of other European powers. France and Spain both have bad reputations about colonialism - just as bad as the UK, but in slightly different ways - and the Dutch and Portugese weren't exactly saints either. Even Belgium acted like cunts.

I think it's fair to say that being a colonial power doesn't bring out the best in countries.

The reason it's been a debate in the UK lately is the sheer amount of plunder that sits in British museums. And the snowflake flagshaggers were upset because someone wanted to put a sign up on some sculpture saying it was stolen from such-and-such country. But Spain also did a lot of plundering.

France and Belgium resisted giving up their colonies long after it was clear they didn't want to be colonies anymore, whereas Spain's colonies were mostly too big for them to control and only the UK had the grace to leave before it was kicked out. Not sure how Dutch colonialism ended, I think they just gave up peacefully after WWII.

As for economic colonialism, I'd be shocked if that practice didn't include us somewhere in some way.

[OngBonga]

Colonialism has been happening in various forms since the days of the Egyptians, at least. It's the natural behaviour of a civilised super-intelligent and large population of primates. We're just competing for territory, just like apes do. It's still happening to this day, just in different ways. The USA has colonised most of the world, only it's not the same kind of colonialism as setting up actual colonies and subduing the locals, it's an economic colonialism, exploiting resources by means of financial dependence - debt. Russian colonialism in Africa today is not too dissimilar from modern French colonialism... a military "peacekeeping" force propping up a puppet government while the occupiers exploit resources and labour.

The last remaining stain the British Empire has on the world, as far as I'm aware, is the Chagos Islands, ethnically cleansed by the British and turned into a military outpost, loaned to USA. We can argue about us colonising a remote uninhabited island in the South Atlantic in if you want, but for me the wishes of the population should be the most important factor, seeing as they are descendants of the first settlers of the Falklands, and then there's Gibraltar, which is obviously historically Spanish, but again we have descendants of colonists who are established, so it's not so simple. Morally we're in the wrong, but evicting the population isn't a serious option, nor is forcing them to accept Spanish rule against their wishes, so the status quo is the only solution.

There's not much for us to do to finish off our empire other than acknowledge our human rights abuses in the Chagos Islands, evict the Americans, and return the islands back to the descendants of those who were evicted. That's not gonna happen though, so we'll remain assholes. But not quite on the scale of the French, who are exploiting 100m+ people.

[Poopadoop]

So was Iraq War II not an act of colonialism then?

Also, the idea that it's only the evil French who are engaging in economic colonialism and not us seems extremely implausible (if that's what you're saying). And surprise surprise, look at this.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=2033138

[OngBonga]

Turns out that marching on Moscow with your army will indeed get you defenestrated.

Honestly, if I ever did anything to piss Putin off, I most definitely would not be getting on a plane in Russia.

[oskar]

Damn, Ong got ahead of me.
RIP Prigojin. Died like a dog... A beautiful dog.

[OngBonga]

This could of course be a "save face" job where Wagner guy disappears into the Siberian wilderness for a life of bear hunting and log chopping, and Putin gets to look like the mafia boss you don't fuck with.

All the reports are saying now is "presumed dead" simply because his name was on the passenger list. Wagner have apparently said on Telegram the plane was shot down, without confirming the identity of anyone on board.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Surprising no one.

He lived all of what? 2, 3 months after pulling that stunt.

SMH

[OngBonga]

It does seem fishy to me. You'd have to have absolutely humongous balls to fly around Russia with a sense of impunity after challenging Putin so brazenly.

This came on the same day a senior general was sacked, maybe Prigozhin lost his primary ally in the Kremlin.

[oskar]

He probably got a bit overconfident since he wasn't dead yet. Going back to the neo-colonies was the right move. No idea why he would voluntarily step on a plane to russia.

[Poopadoop]

It does seem fishy to me. You'd have to have absolutely humongous balls to fly around Russia with a sense of impunity after challenging Putin so brazenly.

This came on the same day a senior general was sacked, maybe Prigozhin lost his primary ally in the Kremlin.

That whole episode was fukcing weird.

Ok, back to watching Trump getting away with treason now.

[oskar]

That whole episode was fukcing weird.

Ok, back to watching Trump getting away with treason now.

He's getting booked in Georgia tomorrow. It's going to be an awesome news day!

[oskar]

Also, I am not going to tell Putin what to do, but it looks like he just really pissed off a lot of guys whose main job it is to kill people, which on the face of it looks like a bad idea. If this gets Putin whacked, at least something good came out of the whole Ukraine thing.

[MadMojoMonkey]

It does seem fishy to me. You'd have to have absolutely humongous balls to fly around Russia with a sense of impunity after challenging Putin so brazenly.

This came on the same day a senior general was sacked, maybe Prigozhin lost his primary ally in the Kremlin.

This also came 2 days after the US state department told any US citizens in Belarus to GTFO.

Add that to your conspiracy pile. US intelligence knew something was about to hit the fan, but couldn't say what.

[Poopadoop]

He's getting booked in Georgia tomorrow. It's going to be an awesome news day!

They booked Rudy first. Obviously they're working their way up to the Big Dog. Here's his mug shot; he actually looks like a cartoon villain.

https://people.com/rudy-giuliani-mug...-photo-7814212

[OngBonga]

This also came 2 days after the US state department told any US citizens in Belarus to GTFO.

Add that to your conspiracy pile. US intelligence knew something was about to hit the fan, but couldn't say what.

Some prominent MI6 dude is claiming they knew weeks ago that a contract had been put on Prigozhin from within the Russian "business community". Of course it's a former head of a secretive government organisation speaking publicly, so take that for what it's worth.

[Poopadoop]

Some prominent MI6 dude is claiming they knew weeks ago that a contract had been put on Prigozhin

That's not intelligence, that's common sense.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Gravestones of Wagner's dead are being removed from gravesites, and gravesites of Wagner dead are being cemented over.


... but Prigohyn's plane being "shot down" was an "accident."

[OngBonga]

I'd be surprised if there's a single person on the planet who believes that was an accident.

Whether Putin ordered it is another matter. Prigozhin had many powerful enemies and this would have been a good time to take him out while having it look like Putin did it. So it's not a given that Putin ordered it. But still, probably.

Definitely not an accident though.

[Poopadoop]

Oops. Probably should have checked his record before giving him a standing o.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2418001.html

[OngBonga]

We'll just keeping saying Ukraine doesn't have a problem with Nazi ideology. Someone just didn't do their due diligence, nothing to see here.

I fail to see how such a person can end up in a parliament, being called a "hero" and getting a standing ovation, without the person who invited him there and addressing him with such praise knowing who he actually is.

"Hey guys, check out this hero guy, no idea why he's a hero but let's all give him the respect of parliament". Nah, not buying it.

I certainly believe there were a ton of people applauding him that didn't know his history. It's embarrassing for Canada and others. But it's more than just an embarrassment for Ukraine. It's a problem.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Reading ong's reply before the link, I expected someone from Azov got appointed to Ukrainian gov't. Read the link and got an actual WWII Nazi stood up in front of the Canadian gov't. and cheered for.

Pleasantly disappointed I think is my response. My original guess was far more worrisome.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Biggest embarrassment is for whoever actually was involved that got that guy on that stage. One more fucking question was all that was needed.
This Ukrainian-Canadian guy fought in WWII. Should we stand him up as a war hero for an easy PR stunt?
He fought in WWII you say... for which side?

One fucking question.
SMH
lazy



I assume (just guessing) that no one else in the room actually knew who that was aside from what they were told on the spot.

[Poopadoop]

I assume (just guessing) that no one else in the room actually knew who that was aside from what they were told on the spot.

I would hope not.

In my more tinfoil-hat moments, I might suspect this was a plan to undermine support for UA. The war's dragging on now with no end in sight, and more than a few countries are starting to reconsider whether they want to keep sending aid to Ukraine. I think Poland's already said they were going to cut off the tap. So, maybe Trudeau thought "here's a good way to create an excuse for us bailing as well."

Then again, it's probably more likely someone in the civil service just fucked up when they were asked to find a Ukrainian war hero.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Did Poland say that?
That explains why Biden was kissing Poland's ass so hard the other day. Something like, we're the bestest friends ever and I'm gonna give Poland a bunch of millions of USD dollars to replace their military stuffs 'cause we're besties like that. Like we've always been. Forever.

There's only a vocal minority of US politicians who are against funding the war in Ukraine. Old money politicians in both parties remember the cold war and know how much value we're getting for our money in this. No US lives at risk, and still making Russia look like they are trying to figure out what a war is for the first time in history.

[Poopadoop]

Did Poland say that?

It appears so.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...xports-dispute

[MadMojoMonkey]

It appears so.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...xports-dispute

What an argument. They're drowning and seeking help from anyone, so fuck them.
Nevermind the flood that is drowning them will be on your doorstep if they sink.

WTF.

Putin's Russia is not going to go away if they manage to steal a bunch of land successfully. Fuck, it's not going away if this plan fails. Putin will go away sooner or later, but the political and economic system he inherited and bolstered will not go away.

C'mon Duda. You're talking doodoo.
got 'im

[OngBonga]

Poland is cutting aid because they're spending large amounts of money on defence. Poland knows it is vulnerable due to its geography. I know the days are gone where large armies march across open plains but what we're seeing in Ukraine is a war of attrition, and geography plays an important role even today.

Russia is highly unlikely to invade Poland, due to the fact Poland is a NATO member, but if Russia ever gets to the point where they think "fuck NATO" and go balls deep, Poland is the first to get bogged down in a land war.

Also, that article makes clear that Poland has already donated what it can and this statement is "largely rhetoric", probably intended for Polish people.

[OngBonga]

It's easy to be critical of Poland but they're not as wealthy as the likes of USA and UK, and they took in the vast majority of Ukrainian refugees, which comes at significant economic cost. And given their Soviet history, you can't blame them for being concerned about Russia to the point they want to increase defence spending.

[OngBonga]

If Russia do decide to invade NATO territory, the Baltic states (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania) will capitulate quickly. That won't even be particularly bloody, save for some brave but futile resistance. Poland is where it gets messy.

It won't happen though. To invade Poland, or the Baltics, is to declare war on NATO. I don't see how Russia can hope to win a war against NATO. All it can do is end the world as we know it if they want to be remembered as the worst regime in history, worse even than the Nazis.