Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
I get the knee-jerk to call out SJW censorship-- but be careful to not do exactly what your accusing MMM of. Let's take wuf's argument point by point.

1) Mainstream Islam preaches racism, e.g. all the hot Muslim womens are off limits to wuf.

2) Mainstraem Islam preaches sexism, e.g. the Imam that openly supports women's rights is an extreme rarity.

3) Mainstream Protestantism, the predominant religion of the USA, where most of us live, has values that approximate the values of the culture of the place where most of us live.

4) Smorgasbord of borderline incoherent jabs framed by an overarching comparison to the pinnacle of tolerance, peace, and all that is good in the world: Protestantism.

5) Muslims don't condemn the abhorrent acts of fellow Muslims.

All of these claims are unsubstantiated, and while probably in the ballpark of truth are contaminated with hyperbolic rhetoric. Further, most of the claims beg dissenters to respond with anecdotes, since they themselves are anecdotal observations of the entirety of Islam-- how is this productive?

I think that's the gripe with wuf's post that had MMM sum it up as hate speech-- the rant lacks substance, is full of rhetoric, and does nothing to address a solution to the problem or even offer common ground on which a fruitful dialogue can be had. This is the difference between what Harris says on the topic and what wuf has to say. Harris gets lambasted for being a bigot, but it's because he uses extremely nuanced arguments, which often get turned into out of context quotes and inflammatory soundbites. I'm not missing any nuance in wuf's post. If it is an attempt to move towards a solution, it's a miserable failure, and if it's a purposeful success at anything, I think my value system is as far from wufwugy's as he proposes Mainstream Islam's is from that of western culture.
I knew I was bringing more to the party than wuf laid out in his post, as I thought I built on point 4 a bit.

But point 5 is an important one. It's not that they don't condemn each other for chopping off hands and stoning quran burners, so much as the apostasy point. You're born into the religion and you're stuck in it because if you don't follow it, you'll be killed, and following it means killing anyone who doesn't follow it.



"All we want is all the non-followers of Muhammed off the land."