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 Originally Posted by Monty3038
I fundamentally disagree with these statements. It is my belief that in a tribal society if you are unable to contribute, you are cast out of that society, as they are unwilling and unable to support you. It is your choice to survive or not to survive, to work to improve your condition or not to. The 'right' you mention to provide your basic needs of shelter, clothing and food is a choice, you choose to provide them or you choose not to.
Let me try to explain it a bit differently. Without providing some value to the society, even in tribal societies, you are a burden to that society, not a contributing member. Thus you don't get to have any power or any 'value' to the society. The only members of tribal society that I have learned of that do not work are usually the shamans. They provide value by contributing the knowledge and 'mysticism' that the society feels it needs. If they stop providing that value, they are forced to either work or are cast out.
Another way to look at it, if this was a right, why are there still starving peoples in third world areas of this planet of ours?
Yeah dude you misunderstood me. I'm not talking at all about this. I'm talking about the system itself. You're referring more to a response to that system.
In a tribalism, the system itself is predicated upon the ability for every member to provide for themselves. There are some outliers and examples of this not being the case, but in general, the capacity to provide exists
In modernism, however, this is not the case for many people. We have designed this artificial construct called an economy that virtually replaces many foundational aspects of the kind of society humans evolved for. Our current rendition of this artificial construct systemically denies the capacity to provide for many, many people. The overwhelming majority of the poor and starving in our world are so not because they choose not to provide for themselves, but because they can't. The system will not let them.
Providing for oneself in modernism is predicated upon the existence of adequate employment. When that employment is not adequate, the people are systemically denied the ability to provide for themselves. The ability to provide for oneself is a basic human right that has only achieved some level of actualization in a small number of nations. US is maybe about halfway there.
Besides all that, a society that designates the right to employment is a much, much better one to live in. Production, health, happiness and a whole bunch of good stuff increases dramatically when the least fortunate of a society receiving a helping hand. Instead of dragging it down and going for things like crime, they become productive members. Don't let some arbitrary political philosophy hinder actual good policy
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