Riots in Tottenham

[bikes]

So I get that the police shot and killed a guy. Why the riots? Please pom friends explain to me why this is happening?

[mbiz]

So I get that the police shot and killed a guy. Why the riots? Please pom friends explain to me why this is happening?

I couldnt make sense of it either, figured its just an outlet for general police hate over there.

[rong]

The trouble is, people are dumb and criminals are opportunists.

[celtic123]

Uk on brink of bankrupt status, foods expensive, vat gone up, were fighting wars we don't belong in, nor afford. And to top it off, my power adaptor broke.
Time to loot.whose in.

[kiwiMark]

it's not like they lost a hockey game amirite

[Monsieur_chat]

The full picture of why the dude got shot is still fairly clouded. By all accounts though a non-police issue firearm was recovered and a police officer survived being shot by the miracle of the bullet getting lodged in his radio. Draw your own conclusions....

As for the rioting / looting, it sounds like what it always is. A few people holding a peaceful vigil and a few hundred pricks who need new shoes.

[eugmac]

lol britain.

[a500lbgorilla]

I'm embarrassed that my Saturday night didn't make the news.

[OngBonga]

It's what tends to happen when black people get shot by the police in iffy circumstances. Eyewitness reports suggest the man was shot in the face while on the floor. It seems the victim's family found out through the press, that no-one from the police felt it appropriate to inform them. In 1985 there was a riot in the same area after a black woman was killed by police after her home was raided.

There's a lot more to this story than what's making the press. The police refuse to answer questions relating to the death of the black man, they're calling most people who are discussing it on social network sites "ill informed", and there's even reports that the police attacked a 16-year-old girl with batons after she asked them something.

My best guess is this guy who has been shot is a big cheese in the local underworld, and that his buddies are kicking off in his honour. Why he got shot, we'll probably never know. I doubt we're being told the whole truth.

[WillburForce]

My sister lives in Tottenham - she's gutted. They've looted and burnt out her local shopping area and really brought the whole area down.

The catalsyt is the police shooting this guy in what looks like poss dodgy circumstances. He's apparently not a massive figure in the area, hence the anger at the police.
Live by the sword, die by the sword(I personally think)...but reading between the lines I'd say either he or someone he was with shot at the police. The police then could have arrested him but choose instead to shoot him on the floor point blank in the face.....

The riots seem to be more to do with how poor and fked the community is and this one incident just kicked it off. Cameron has just slashed the youth budget by 70%. Won't affect his old chums from Eton, but it will really fk up the good work being done in places like Tottenham.

It's just really sad that all the good people and good stuff that happens in Tottenham get fucked over by things like this. But when people have nothing and the only help they do get gets taken away, what the fuck are they gonna do? Add to that percieved police brutality and boom.

Unbelievable that this can happen in London. I'm sitting in SW London in the sunshine about to have a glass of rose and my sister who lives a few miles away has had to move her and the kids round to my Mums in case it kicks off again....welcome to Britain.

[OngBonga]

Saturday night in Tottenham was related to the shooting, it started off as a protest and escalated out of control. What happened in London last night is basically a bunch of dickheads running around stealing things. You know, I like a bit of civil disobediance when there's a cause, and a night of rioting to tell the police we won't accept their brutality is fair game in my opinion so long as no-one gets seriously hurt, but the looting last night in Enfield and other districts isn't on, it has nothing to do with the shooting of that man, and everything to do with theft. The chavs are rising. If I were PM, I'd just send the fucking army out, shoot the cunts with rubber bullets. Innocent people and their businesses need to be protected.

[WillburForce]

I'm going to Piccadilly Circus tonight for a meal. I'll take my balaclava just in case....

[Ash256]

As Brits, do you guys feel that the level of impotent rage in the country is growing? I've recently begun to feel it, especially noticing the rise in the number of homeless/drunks in the street/armchair revolutionaries on the bus talking about how they want to rise up and riot, but I think that might just be because I'm generally stressed right now.

[rong]

Not really. The scummier side of our lower classes have always been angry drunks, just waiting for an opportunity to unite as a mob, angry at their laziness and resentful of the success of others.

[celtic123]

As Brits, do you guys feel that the level of impotent rage in the country is growing? I've recently begun to feel it, especially noticing the rise in the number of homeless/drunks in the street/armchair revolutionaries on the bus talking about how they want to rise up and riot, but I think that might just be because I'm generally stressed right now.

Just heard sky news say riots across london due to lack of jobs, poor quality housing and schools under funded.

Not really. The scummier side of our lower classes have always been angry drunks, just waiting for an opportunity to unite as a mob, angry at their laziness and resentful of the success of others.

The rioting and looting started with them.

It's the white collar workers that are feeling the pitch. The poor are used to being poor, they can handle it, the lower middle class , the civil servants and lower management, they don't like their comfort threatened.

I know a coupla drug dealers, who sell that white stuff, for years they have been comfortable, one of them supplies a large area where quite well off people live. Restaurant owners, businessmen, pilots, down by the harbour , and some not so high profile people, but with enough spare cash to indulge in their recreational hobby.
Since last summer, his trade has died right down, he reckons 3/4 of them struggle to pay him. Some owe him big time. He owes people that supply him, they owe people who supply them. He's never known it so bad. If the dealers are struggling, the black markets struggling. There is trouble ahead.

[rong]

It's the white collar workers that are feeling the pitch. The poor are used to being poor, they can handle it, the lower middle class , the civil servants and lower management, they don't like their comfort threatened.

They don't riot. They are not rioting now. They have nothing to do with riots.

[rong]

Watching live footage of the riots now taking place in Lewisham.

Funny how most of the rioters are wearing tracksuits and hoodies. It's mostly uneducated, wannabe gangster, unemployed, pikey, ASBO holding wankers! Gotta love England.

[EasyPoker]

I live about two minuts away from it all

ship me manies for opinions

[celtic123]

I'm hearing on facebook, riots arrangements being put about for croydon tonight.

Lets see what transpires.

[OngBonga]

As Brits, do you guys feel that the level of impotent rage in the country is growing? I've recently begun to feel it, especially noticing the rise in the number of homeless/drunks in the street/armchair revolutionaries on the bus talking about how they want to rise up and riot, but I think that might just be because I'm generally stressed right now.

I think there is a level of discontent that has been simmering for a while now, but I'm not sure recent events reflect this. I'm not convinced this has anything to do with economics or politics, it's basically the lower class (we call them chavs) taking advantage of the political tension between locals and the police, they're opportunistic little thieving bastards. Most of the people arrested in Tottenham were from other parts of London. I can't imagine many of the protesters knew the shooting victim.

It's basically anti-establishment morons who don't know why they're anti-establishment, they just are. They lack the intelligence to understand their motives. Britain has a lot of stupid people.

[rong]

One of the rioters, check the special brew!

[celtic123]

See how he shields the special brew from the blazing vehicle. That stuff is rocket fuel.

[OngBonga]

It's spreading into Birmingham and Solihull now. I'm in Solihull with my family, I hear the looters are moving towards the town centre. Croydon and Hackeny in London are ablaze. It's time to send the army in with water cannons and rubber bullets. People are being allowed to think that these looters are getting away with it, people are no longer afraid of the police.

On the plus side, I hear the Aston Villa club shop has been set alight. Every cloud...

[celtic123]

It's spreading into Birmingham and Solihull now. I'm in Solihull with my family, I hear the looters are moving towards the town centre. Croydon and Hackeny in London are ablaze. It's time to send the army in with water cannons and rubber bullets. People are being allowed to think that these looters are getting away with it, people are no longer afraid of the police.

On the plus side, I hear the Aston Villa club shop has been set alight. Every cloud...

I've just heard birminghams shops been targeted. Thought that was your neck of the woods.
if you have a change of heart, I'm after a 54 inch plasma.

[OngBonga]

I just asked my Mother if she needs a new laptop! I'm around two miles from Solihull town centre, and around 8 miles from B'ham. I just went out for a smoke and could hear sirens in the distance, but then this isn't unusual I suppose. I'll be travelling through B'ham city centre tomorrow, I think I'll go and have a look at the remains of Primark, which I hear is on fire.

[rong]

So, hyperthetical scenario, I'm strolling though town and I stumble accross a shop being looted. I can grab a laptop without much risk in terms of safety or getting caught.

Do I take it? If I don't, some chav will anyway.

[celtic123]

So, hyperthetical scenario, I'm strolling though town and I stumble accross a shop being looted. I can grab a laptop without much risk in terms of safety or getting caught.

Do I take it? If I don't, some chav will anyway.

Take the laptop and pick up an extended warrantee leaflet on the way out.

[OngBonga]

So what, you see a mob of people rioting and looting a shop, and you continue to walk in that direction?

[rong]

Any other brits find this whole thing rather embarrassing?

[eugmac]

So, hyperthetical scenario, I'm strolling though town and I stumble accross a shop being looted. I can grab a laptop without much risk in terms of safety or getting caught.

Do I take it? If I don't, some chav will anyway.

Quite possibly a good portion of the looters are thinking this very thought.

[eugmac]

just watched some further video footage after the 3rd night of arson and looting. pretty worrying - and if any of them are doing it with some sort of class-struggle political agenda in mind, they're certainly only making life much worse off for themselves in the future...

anyway this sort of shows a bit of what I felt was wrong with the country when I studied there a few years back, and so doesn't come as a surprise to me actually.

[Nekrogovner]

Heh, the British. Finding reasons to wreak havoc since invention of football. I suppose its a bad time to go on a field trip in England.

[OngBonga]

I've just got back home after spending the evening with my family, I had a walk around Birmingham on my way back to assess the damage. I saw two people being treated by paramedics, one seemed drunk while the other was being screened and police asking people to cross the road. There was a cash machine that the rioters had obviously attempted to steal but had failed. Several windows were broken. The Armani store has been completely ransacked, so these twats should at least look smart in court. But, I am disappointed to report, the Aston Villa shop was open for business, so obviously reports that it had been torched are false. Also, Primark was open, so again that report was false. Solihull has not been targetted as far as I can figure.

Any other brits find this whole thing rather embarrassing?

Pretty much, but only because these morons don't have a cause. If this was going on after we went to war with Iraq, I'd be proud.

[Luco]

The media are blaming everything. I blame the muslims.

[OngBonga]

Some images from around Birmingham...









And some from London...

[WillburForce]

It getting crazy in London - You can really feel the tension.

A friend of mine works in Harrow and said the police told them to finish early. There were gangs gathering in the subways on the outskirts of the town.

I'm about to head to Ealing to pick up my daughter - there was trouble there last night. I'm gonna take a cricket bat with me just in case (not to join in, but to defend my car!).

They should get the army in and water cannon the wankers.

[OngBonga]

We don't have any water cannons. The only ones Britain have are in Northern Ireland, and we can't use them without declaring a state of emergency. There's talk of plastic bullets being used, not sure if that's police or army though.

According to Twitter (so take with a pinch of salt), several areas of Birmingham and surrounding towns such as West Bromwich are closing early. There's talk of people gathering right now in the Bull Ring. Jewellery Quarter, an aptly named area of Birmingham which is teeming with jewellers, has apparently been sealed off.

It's fucking chaos.

Don't hang around Ealing long, it got very ugly there yesterday according to the news I was watching. Stay safe.

[Ash256]

Any other brits find this whole thing rather embarrassing?

Yeah. When we had the poll tax riots it was a necessary and game-changing riot, when the working class rose up against a decade of being crushed by the Conservatives and forced the end of an extremely regressive tax.

Now it's just twats nicking widescreen TVs.

Being in Leeds, a city with a strong history of rioting, I'm genuinely curious to see if the disorder spreads, although looking at the news today the most likely lads to do this sort of thing are too busy shooting each other to go on the nick.

[celtic123]

It getting crazy in London - You can really feel the tension.

A friend of mine works in Harrow and said the police told them to finish early. There were gangs gathering in the subways on the outskirts of the town.

I'm about to head to Ealing to pick up my daughter - there was trouble there last night. I'm gonna take a cricket bat with me just in case (not to join in, but to defend my car!).

They should get the army in and water cannon the wankers.

If your get stop searched you are carrying a weapon with intent. Carry a ball and stumps. Then your in the clear.

hope you don't need it.

[WillburForce]

Stay safe everyone in UK I say! The countries gonna get over run with yoof.

[rong]

I got caught in the middle of the pompey/saints riot in Portsmouth back in 2004 or 5. It's pretty scary, had my car and my gf with me which made it worse as I had shit to protect. Was also pretty fucking cool though, the atmosphere was so intense, police were charging at rioters and concrete and metal were flying through the air. Prob the scariest experience of my life.

[Ash256]

‪London Riots - Scum steal from injured boy.‬‏ - YouTube

Somehow I don't think this is what The Clash had in mind..

[Ash256]

Double post: What a fucking legend

Matthew Moore - Truly extraordinary speech by fearless West Indian woman in face of #Hackney rioters. Pls watch - Twitvid

[Nekrogovner]

‪London Riots - Scum steal from injured boy.‬‏ - YouTube

Somehow I don't think this is what The Clash had in mind..

Seriously? Vikings are less brutal then this moron.

[eugmac]

Ya I saw those two videos, and basically that woman is bang on - if their beef is with Westminster, they should go there and make a racket instead of trashing shops of hard-working people. Look at Egypt, they camped outside the damn palace peacefully until the president finally stepped down. If they just want to steal and smash shit, which is probably more likely, I don't know what to say.

[baudib]

scary stuff, be safe guys.

[rong]

You know would be great, some kinda bad ass Wesley snipes type dressing up as Batman and going all Charles bronson

[Ash256]

‪London Riot Fail‬‏ - YouTube

[eugmac]

heh nice to have a lol post to lighten things up...

[celtic123]

this is shit, the police must shape up and hit hard. I could sleep soundly at a shoot to kill policy.

‪London Riots 2011 - Man Helped and Then Robbed.‬‏ - YouTube

look whats selling lately

Amazon.co.uk Movers and Shakers: The biggest gainers in Sports & Leisure sales rank over the past 24 hours

[Miffed22001]

I popped out for some milk and came across this guy....



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

But in reality - wft - been a while since we had a proper riot!

[OngBonga]

London is quiet, there's a few minor disturbances reported but as a whole it seems the massive police presence is having the desired effect. Birmingham has had a few problems, and it's kicked off in West Bromwich and Wolverhampton, as well as Manchester and Nottingham.

I currently live in Kidderminster, even here the chavs are all hanging around in town, but there's a lot of police about. I think there was a small disturbance by the train station, but police took control very quickly. This town is too small for the idiots to stretch the police effectively. If things remain calm here, I'll have faith that this will be restricted to the cities, and if that holds, then the police will gain control soon. They've got the green light to use plastic bullets, and I think they are now aware that the public are behind them giving these pricks a goot beating with a baton. There's been quite a lot of vigilantes on the streets tonight. Sikhs have been guarding a temple in huge numbers, Turks and Kurds have been uniting to protect their areas, and even football hooligans have taken to the streets to deter looters.

I think this has reached its peak in terms of destruction, their numbers will dwindle fast now they realise how out of hand it's getting, and that they are in serious danger. Maybe the army won't be needed after all. It's probably too early to say that though. There could be a lull, and then fireworks at the weekend again, or maybe they'll simply wait until the police are no longer out in massive numbers. I hope not, this is just crazy, all it's doing is making the world realise what a bunch of fucking morons Brits are.

[bigred]

I could sleep soundly at a shoot to kill policy.

You are the worst poster on FTR.

[BennyLaRue]

Tottenham. Sounds like a delicious snack.

[bigred]

Oh, and just for clarification, I'm the best poster on FTR. Try and be more like me.

[BennyLaRue]

Oh, and just for clarification, I'm the best poster on FTR. Try and be more like me.

That's not true. It's Halv. You can't argue with rep points.

[celtic123]

You are the worst poster on FTR.

Ok. Ill put more effort in.

If there were (was) a shoot to kill policy. I would (could) sleep easily.

hmmm.

[eugmac]

a huge number of these morons are just kids, like 12-year-old bloody kids. wtf went wrong?

[eugmac]

and to add, not just boys, but girls too.

[rong]

I blame social welfare. These kids should have starved to death long ago.

[WillburForce]

All quiet in London - weird seeing burnt out cars in Ealing last night.

Saw a few little hoodies on bmxs trying tolook menacing. Little pricks.

Most annoying was they shut and boarded up my local Tescos. I needed to get some cous-cous!

[eugmac]

I blame social welfare. These kids should have starved to death long ago.

I happen to believe that kids who come from a broken family can be given hope that they can be different from their parents. Unfortunately this seems to not happen in the UK, where they're left to fester and rot.

and I personally know people whose parents were poor and alcoholics, who managed to get a good education in good schools and come into contact with people who had a positive outlook on life which gave them hope, and now preparing themselves for well-paid careers. Talking about Germany now, though. Oh by the way they spend proportionally more of their GDP on welfare expenditure (33%) than the UK (26%).

[eugmac]

A study from a better informed group of people than me to follow up on my last post, discussing vertical social mobility, i.e. "the degree to which an individual's or group's status is able to change in terms of position in the social hierarchy"

http://cep.lse.ac.uk/about/news/Inte...alMobility.pdf

International comparisons indicate that intergenerational mobility in Britain is of the same order of magnitude as in the US, but that these countries are substantially less mobile than Canada and the Nordic countries. Germany also looks to be more mobile than the UK and US, but a small sample size prevents us drawing a firm conclusion.

Intergenerational mobility fell markedly over time in Britain, with there being less mobility for a cohort of people born in 1970 compared to a cohort born in 1958. No similar change is observed in the US.

Part of the reason for the decline in mobility has been the increasing relationship between family income and educational attainment between these cohorts. This was because additional opportunities to stay in education at both age 16 and age 18 disproportionately benefited those from better-off backgrounds.

I think this is of key relevance....

[OngBonga]

I don't see how welfare can be blamed. If these people were to have no income at all, as opposed a meagre income, does anyone really think this will mean less trouble on the streets?

I came from a broken family. When I was 16, I left a children's home and was on my own. If it wasn't for welfare, what options would I have had? I would've been 16, with no money, no qualifications, no prospects... I would have little choice but to turn to crime. But, I was allowed a small income, my rent paid, and my college fees paid. From there I was able to build my life into something at least mildly promising. Welfare is an essential part of a civilised society, without it people are truly left to fend for themselves. Without welfare, what we're seeing in the cities at the moment would be a common sight.

[rong]

The welfare comment was a joke.

The issue we face is a small section of society and their attitudes towards work, responsibility, respect, welfare and their lack of self worth and belief in the value of the society the rest of us live in. I don't know if its down to poverty, lack of role models, education or parental attitudes, but its a huge problem.

[OngBonga]

Yeah I agree completely with that.

[OngBonga]

Cameron approves water cannons

About fucking time. Still, I don't see why we don't just get one into London now so it can be called at an hour's notice.

[celtic123]

Cameron approves water cannons

About fucking time. Still, I don't see why we don't just get one into London now so it can be called at an hour's notice.

I read somewhere else, we only have 6, and the're in Northern Ireland, and its the marching season, so N.I. is reluctant to part with any .

[rong]

Water cannons aren't suitable for small sporadic riots. They're main use is for large groups to heard them back as far as I understand it. They aren't mobile enough to be used for lots of small groups.

Rubber bullets would be more useful, but who wants to shoot a ten yr old. What we need is a larger police presence and to give them permission to be more aggressive on capturing the rioters and then harsh punishments to culprits and patents if below 15. The army would be helpful but the government hates the image of the army on the streets as it looks like they've lost complete control.

[Luco]

BBC News - London rioters: 'Showing the rich we do what we want'

Morans

[OngBonga]

The army would be helpful but the government hates the image of the army on the streets as it looks like they've lost complete control.

Things is, they very nearly have lost complete control. I agree water cannons are not particularly useful directly, but they present a psychological challenge to rioters, and they can certainly be used to lock down a certain area, perhaps central London. They're probably pretty useful for putting fires out too. Maybe the police should use the hoses on fire trucks to disperse crowds, they would be much more mobile, and less dangerous.

Yes rubber/plastic bullets are much more useful, and this will be the game winner for the government. Who'd shoot a ten-year-old? If the little cunt was lotting and setting fire to someone's business, I would. Rubber bullets aren't going to kill him, but they'll teach him a valuable lesson - the police are always stronger. If he's old enough to loot and riot, he's old enough to learn that lesson.

I think there's been a huge psycholocigal shift... the police are being fully supported by the public. The general public realise this is serious, we don't want to see society collapse like this, so if a 15-year-old looter ends up with broken bones thanks to police batons, that's tough shit for him. There is no sympathy for them if they get hurt. That gives the police confidence to tackle these thugs effectively.

[OngBonga]

BBC News - London rioters: 'Showing the rich we do what we want'

Morans

They're showing the rich that what they want is to be thieves and for society to collapse? These people are so fucking stupid. What do they think will happen if society collapses for real? Do they think this will be a better place for them? Without the rich paying tax, how do they expect the government to pay them their benefits? I doubt they are even capable of thinking about it, they are more comfortable thinking about illiterate rap lyrics.

I want to emigrate.

[OngBonga]

Not all British are morons...



Our weapon of choice... THE BROOM!!!

[WillburForce]

Just heard on BBC 5 Live:

First few people getting charged, all of whom have admitted the charges (burglary of commercial premises mainly), include a primary school teacher, a student and a guy just out of prison.

Good mix of wankers. Society is fked!

[WillburForce]

BBC News - London rioters: 'Showing the rich we do what we want'

Morans

I bet they can spell moron though, you moran.