Universal Basic Income

[wufwugy]

I tend to agree with Caplan on that main point I quoted earlier. He thinks UBI would be worse than status quo since it would vastly increase the number of people who have reasonable option to produce less.

[Savy]

I tend to agree with Caplan on that main point I quoted earlier. He thinks UBI would be worse than status quo since it would vastly increase the number of people who have reasonable option to produce less.

Is there not quite a lot of evidence that suggests that when people can spend their time and effort on things that interest them rather than things they have to their productivity increases by a huge amount.

The use of these systems is very dependant on how they are funded.

[spoonitnow]

Is there not quite a lot of evidence that suggests that when people can spend their time and effort on things that interest them rather than things they have to their productivity increases by a huge amount.

There are plenty of people who are interested in writing Twilight fan fiction who are more productive when working at McDonald's because they're producing more value.

[Savy]

There are plenty of people who are interested in writing Twilight fan fiction who are more productive when working at McDonald's because they're producing more value.

You say that but look at the amount of money twilight made. That clearly started out as a lonely fat ugly girl writing stories she could get off to.

[wufwugy]

You say that but look at the amount of money twilight made. That clearly started out as a lonely fat ugly girl writing stories she could get off to.

Some entrepreneurs and some employers do understand that this is a thing, and they try to spot people or areas to allow for freedom of pursuit of personal desires. The concept is already standard in a lot of ways. For example, employers provide amenities that make employees feel they are doing more of what they want to be doing because they raise productivity. Some creative fields allot time for employees to do what they wish.

It doesn't seem to be the case that being non-selective about who or what areas to do this yields positive results. Some fat ugly girls can write fanfic and make it big. Most fat ugly girls writing fanfic can't.

[Savy]

Some entrepreneurs and some employers do understand that this is a thing, and they try to spot people or areas to allow for freedom of pursuit of personal desires. The concept is already standard in a lot of ways. For example, employers provide amenities that make employees feel they are doing more of what they want to be doing because they raise productivity. Some creative fields allot time for employees to do what they wish.

It doesn't seem to be the case that being non-selective about who or what areas to do this yields positive results. Some fat ugly girls can write fanfic and make it big. Most fat ugly girls writing fanfic can't.

Yeah because there would still be a market which dictates what you can and can't make money from it's just that the results from said market would be higher because more people have tried and therefore you have better to pick from. Those that couldn't wouldn't just get a free ride to do whatever they wanted. It would just allow more time to be spent on something, not all their time. If we are at the point where everyone has their needs met by something that requires no input then we aren't at the same situation because there is literally nothing more you need from life.

The outcomes that you speak about are not only based on satisfaction from doing something if that was the case people would already only do what satisfies them. It's an EV calc. If I could spend all my time doing whatever I fancied I 100% would and tbh I would be more unproductive. If you freed up some of my time and I could choose to spend it on what I wanted I would still have to ration that out to what I got the most from. What I get the most from isn't necessarily what society benefits the most from but in a capitalist system this still holds true anyway. If it didn't then that key component of you getting to decide what you do wouldn't' exist.

Average all of the earnings for that and 50 Shades of Grey (which is based on Twilight and a movie called Secretary) out across all of the fan fiction ever written, and what you'll find is that they're still more productive working at McDonald's, and it's nowhere fucking close.

That's terrible maths and doesn't prove the point you want it to.

[spoonitnow]

You say that but look at the amount of money twilight made. That clearly started out as a lonely fat ugly girl writing stories she could get off to.

Average all of the earnings for that and 50 Shades of Grey (which is based on Twilight and a movie called Secretary) out across all of the fan fiction ever written, and what you'll find is that they're still more productive working at McDonald's, and it's nowhere fucking close.

[wufwugy]

Is there not quite a lot of evidence that suggests that when people can spend their time and effort on things that interest them rather than things they have to their productivity increases by a huge amount.

If doing what interested them increased their productivity over what doesn't interests them, wouldn't they be doing what interests them instead of what doesn't? The reason people do things that "don't interest them" is because making money to buy stuff interests them more than doing something that "interests them" that doesn't yield an equivalent amount of money.

Outside of that, having greater capital (I'm including all capital, like human capital) might make it easier for somebody to be productive doing what interests them. The Kenya thing could exemplify this since it might be a big shock in capital. An example is that if cutting down trees interests you but if all you have is a handsaw, you might be more productive doing something else. However, if you have increased capital (which can carry with it increased opportunity) such that you have a chainsaw, you could probably switch to doing what you are more interested in (cutting down trees) AND make more money doing so than the next best option.