Whats good money to you?

[Laeelin]

At what point do you start to think of wages as "Good" money?

[theDEEPdish]

I deliver pizza and make 10+ and thats alright but i think you have to get to 20 for it to be good money

[gabe]

poker has skewed this so much for me.

[midas06]

poker has skewed this so much for me.

[Laeelin]

poker has skewed this so much for me.

LOL

Live the Dream!


Poker is actually what made me ask the question... I realised this morning that if a year ago I had been offered a job that paid what I now make an hour playing poker.... I would have been blown away!!

[jyms]

I picked
$30 because I make just a little less than that and I can't make ends meet with a mortgage, 2 car payments, poker books, a kid, the "FUCKIN" wife

[bigred]

5 dolla sucky sucky, you buy now?

[Jay67s]

Poll needs some higher entries --- "good" is a relative term --- I am almost 40 years old, have 2 kids, and a good job. I couldn't live off any of those numbers per hour.

$35/hour * 2000 hours a year = $70,000

i would say $50.

[cardsman1992]

When I got out of HS and started college, I never thought I would make less than $50K per year. When I dropped out and started working in the real world, I realize how stupid I was. Working in a factory busting your ass doing work no one else wants to do for $6 an hour makes you appreciate any money. Hell, I thought I was rich when I got over $10 an hour (this was 7 years ago, btw). Now I make $45K and my wife makes $55K, so those days are over (for now, at least). But I still think anyone making $20 an hour makes decent money. Granted, not many EVER make enough to handle everything that comes their way, but still....

Consider how poor the rest of the world is.....to 2/3 of the world, $10 is a fortune....

[bigred]

Poll needs some higher entries --- "good" is a relative term --- I am almost 40 years old, have 2 kids, and a good job. I couldn't live off any of those numbers per hour.

$35/hour * 2000 hours a year = $70,000

i would say $50.

[lonnie]

Poll needs some higher entries Smile --- "good" is a relative term --- I am almost 40 years old, have 2 kids, and a good job. I couldn't live off any of those numbers per hour.

$35/hour * 2000 hours a year = $70,000

i would say $50.

100,000 is pretty steep, especially considering the median income in West Virginia for a 4-person family is the lowest in the United States. It's even below Mississippi and Louisiana. You must be the richest guy on your mountain.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/4person.html

[andy-akb]

Poll needs some higher entries --- "good" is a relative term --- I am almost 40 years old, have 2 kids, and a good job. I couldn't live off any of those numbers per hour.

$35/hour * 2000 hours a year = $70,000

i would say $50.

At a regular job those assumptions are fine, at poker [assuming you are multitabling] working that many hours is just asking to get burned out.

[Renton]

If you are a single non pokerplayer, 20/hour is good money.

If you are a married non pokerplayer, 35/hour is good money.

If you are a pokerplayer, 100-200/hour is good money.

[LimpinAintEZ]

I deliver pizza and make 10+ and thats alright but i think you have to get to 20 for it to be good money

you need to leave dominoes! seriously, I do it P/T and make right at $18-20 and hour...I did work for dominoes for a couple months - They made me carry a CHANGE bag because some customers would want exact change...Anytime your carrying a change bag, your delivering the wrong pizza

$30 an hour isn't bad - I keep playing poker in the hopes that I can make what renton is talking about someday -

[Laeelin]

If you are a single non pokerplayer, 20/hour is good money.

If you are a married non pokerplayer, 35/hour is good money.

If you are a pokerplayer, 100-200/hour is good money.

IMO it doesnt make a diffrence what you do.

if $20/hr is good money, it's not suggenly bad ,money because your playing poker :P

[Pelion]

For a student playing as a part time hobby $20 per hour is pretty sweet.
I dont think its that amazing for a full time job though.

[gabe]

If you are a pokerplayer, 100-200/hour is good money.

pffffffffffft

[Renton]

If you are a pokerplayer, 100-200/hour is good money.

pffffffffffft

I said 'good'

not 'insanely good'

egotistical prick

[ItDepends]

I'm shocked that the highest number on this poll isn't even a 6 figure salary. I was going to answer $300+.

[gabe]

If you are a pokerplayer, 100-200/hour is good money.

pffffffffffft

I said 'good'

not 'insanely good'

egotistical prick

wow

the point was not to set a limit to how much you think you deserve/hour

[gabe]

i stared at your response and still cant tell how serious/sarcastic you were being

[Renton]

hahahahahahhaa

[Renton]

ya its funny, you can't really express the underlying sarcasm in text form

maybe i should've italicized it or something

[Laeelin]

I'm shocked that the highest number on this poll isn't even a 6 figure salary. I was going to answer $300+.

Personally, I didnt think I needed to go any higher... I didnt say "what are you makeing?" or "how much do you think the best players make?"

It's at what point do you START to thinking of as "good" money?

Nothing to do with poker.

I guess the fact that I assumed that 70k/year was high enough to reach the bottom end of "good money" for everyone says something about what I think good money is...

My mistake

[gabe]

your supposed to make some goofy smileyface :P

sucks that you didnt, i already PMed xman about banning you

sorry

[Secular Monk]

At this point I'd settle for any rate/hr with a positive slope.

[dzeanah]

sucks that you didnt, i already PMed xman about banning you

You're serious?

[gabe]

sucks that you didnt, i already PMed xman about banning you

You're serious?

renton is always bugging me about going over his hands and its pretty annoying, then he said that, so yea ban request submitted

[Renton]

looks like the next ftr feud is broiling


meet me at the .10/.25 tables gabe we have to settle this

[lambchopdc]

I would vote but 2-tabling 100nl 6max @ 7.8 ptbb with 25% rakeback = $35/hr....i would vote $200/hr+ as "good money"

[gabe]

looks like the next ftr feud is broiling


meet me at the .10/.25 tables gabe we have to settle this

we should have some deepstacked ftr HU games (tourney maybe?), and i think you should organize it

[Renton]

we've had private hu shootouts on stars before right?

[Renton]

If you are a single non pokerplayer, 20/hour is good money.

If you are a married non pokerplayer, 35/hour is good money.

If you are a pokerplayer, 100-200/hour is good money.

IMO it doesnt make a diffrence what you do.

if $20/hr is good money, it's not suggenly bad ,money because your playing poker :P

i disagree

I make around 20 dollars an hour at my job, and I live like a king. But I am single, so...

To live at the same standard and be married with children, I'd need considerably more money.

A poker player needs to make more per hour A) to absorb variance and B) to avoid working long hours.

[Laeelin]

A poker player needs to make more per hour A) to absorb variance and B) to avoid working long hours.

That doesnt make sense...

$35/hr playing poker is $35/hr .. vairance has nothing to do with it... (or more accurately it's already included in the figure)

If you make $35/hr playing poker, ending a week or even a month negative is expected, and is covered in your $35/hr just like upswings are.... Thats what a bankroll and a budget are for.

Why do poker players need to make more to cover longer hours? If anything it's the other way arround because you dont need to drive to work. (adding another 2min to 2 hours+ to your work day depending on where you work in relation to where you live.)

[Renton]

its a lot easier to push paperclips for 8 str8 hours than it is to 8 table ring games.

Poker is a far more physically demanding job per capita than a lot of other jobs I could think of.

I wouldn't dream of playing poker for a living if I couldn't make at least four times as much per hour as my normal job.

[PO$$E$$ED]

1k

[Laeelin]

its a lot easier to push paperclips for 8 str8 hours than it is to 8 table ring games.

Depends on the exact job.

Also depends on a lot of other things.

I make my money 4 tableing with the raido turned up... I find it easier that my old programming job because being my own boss is just that much better.

I like being able to wake up in the morning and say "I think I'll take my son fishing today instead of working!" and then just doing it.

I that freedom is worth playing poker for less than my old job to me.

Poker is a far more physically demanding job per capita than a lot of other jobs I could think of.

I sure agree with this though!

[yorib]

Good money is 100% relative. At 14 I'd be estatic with anything over minimum wage (which was $3.35/hr). Now 20 times that is "meh". I voted for $35/hr, but would have put $150 ish.

[lonnie]

Jeez, maybe there are more people out there making over 100K than I thought. I'd better get with the program.

[Laeelin]

Jeez, maybe there are more people out there making over 100K than I thought. I'd better get with the program.

I hear that.

I dont even know anyone that makes more than $30 an hour

[Staresy]

I dont even know anyone that makes more than $30 an hour

I think I do (pre-tax). $30 = ~£17 (UK) right?

That said, poker is purely a hobby for me (although I'm not enjoying it so much at teh moment!) so my hourly rate from poker is considerably lower than what I make from my day job.

If you are also talking money and rates per hour from poker, then surely the stakes you play at comes into the equation.

I guess it is all relative anyway. The money I make from my day job is comfortable-good for me. The money I make from poker is considerably lower but I still consider it good given stakes etc and my natural tendency to be more conservative with my roll.

Think I am blabbering a bit now. But I guess my point is that each are relative.

[ItDepends]

Laee needs to move near a big city, or at least come to some big poker event with some FTRs, then you'd know some...

[jyms]

your supposed to make some goofy smileyface

sucks that you didnt, i already PMed xman about banning you

sorry

Not to highjack, BUT, what would it take for a guy making $30 an hour, pre tax, spending $150 a week in gas and1.5 hrs a day commuting, to break even playing poker in canada, (tax free gambling as far as I know). The wife still has benifits, so medical and dental are covered. Staying home would save me $30 a week inb coffees, $50 a week in lunches and take out, and if time is no issue, $500+ a month in daycare. Can this be done $50NL 4 tableing. I would think that $20 an hour, 40 hrs. a week is all I need to break even.

[Renton]

i wouldn't dream of playing ring for a living at stakes below 200nl and at less than six tables

[jyms]

Long run I can understand that. Short term, say your job is unstable, you hate your life, wanna look for something else. what's sustainable? 6 table, 50NL with a 1K roll since you will need to make withdrawls. What about a guy, no education, making $10/hr. able to do with a decent knowledge of poker and a grinded $500 BR. Is 1BB an hour sustainable at 110NL, 25NL, 50NL for a six month/1year veteran of FTR.

[Renton]

i quit my job at the beginning of the summer because I was sick of it and decided to supplement the money I had saved up by playing poker with my 10k bankroll.

It really changes your outlook and your value of money. The game is a lot more hard and a lot less fun when you have a bottom line you need to meet, and in many ways I regret leaving my job, even though it sucked.

That being said, its nice to make ten times as much per hour as my job. That is, when I am not running like crap.

[yorib]

<<Not to highjack, BUT, what would it take for a guy making $30 an hour, pre tax, spending $150 a week in gas and1.5 hrs a day commuting, to break even playing poker in canada, (tax free gambling as far as I know). The wife still has benifits, so medical and dental are covered. Staying home would save me $30 a week inb coffees, $50 a week in lunches and take out, and if time is no issue, $500+ a month in daycare. Can this be done $50NL 4 tableing. I would think that $20 an hour, 40 hrs. a week is all I need to break even. >>

I think it's far easier than that. I'm no expert on the Canadian Tax code, but I'd estimate that 1/3 of your wages goes to "the man". So 40 x $20($30 x 2/3) = $800 - $150 (gas) - $30 (cofee) - $50 (take out) - $500/4 (day care) = $445
$445/ 40 = $12ish an hour.

Now, the sustainability is a separate issue, but I'll leave that to those in the know.

This'll sound as useful as "play fewer hands, and play them aggressively", but all that those I know who make 100K+ did was take college (or at least graduate school) seriously, get a degree in a specialized field (econ/law/engineering/finance) and take their job seriously. The $$$ just comes. Really is no more to it than that.

[givememyleg]

My life goal is to win the lotto. I've been jobless for about 4 months now attempting to grind my way through it. If I won the lotto however, I wouldn't have to worry about it!

[PO$$E$$ED]

I'm so rich and attractive, when I jerk off I look in the mirror

[jyms]

My life goal is to win the lotto. I've been jobless for about 4 months now attempting to grind my way through it. If I won the lotto however, I wouldn't have to worry about it!

So that cinches it!! Dwarfman Challenges it is for the next month.

I think it's far easier than that. I'm no expert on the Canadian Tax code, but I'd estimate that 1/3 of your wages goes to "the man". So 40 x $20($30 x 2/3) = $800 - $150 (gas) - $30 (cofee) - $50 (take out) - $500/4 (day care) = $445
$445/ 40 = $12ish an hour.

This is a little off, but I see where you are going with it. Gas, coffee and food were weekly, day care is monthly but ya sounds do-able if breaking even was the goal. And no that's not the plan. I was just kinda wondering about, how locked into a shit job do ya' need to be if you have a semi BR and want to try some earnings. Or if you go to school and feel like doing this instead of a summer job. Maybe it's even feasible for someone to use as extra income, I personally know several people with part time (15+ hrs/wk ) job, including myself that would rather combine poker with necessary earnings. But like Renton says,

The game is a lot more hard and a lot less fun when you have a bottom line you need to meet, and in many ways I regret leaving my job, even though it sucked.

[lambchopdc]

My life goal is to win the lotto. I've been jobless for about 4 months now attempting to grind my way through it. If I won the lotto however, I wouldn't have to worry about it!

Food for thought...

There are actual times when playing the lottery is a +EV investment. I'll use the Powerball as an example. We have it here in PA and many other states have it. The odds of winning the grand prize (matching 5 white balls + 1 red ball) is 1 in 146,107,962. When you buy a $1 ticket you must choose your method of payment up front. You can choose Annuity which pays out in equal installments over 20 years or Cash which pays you all the money up front but you only get 50% of the prize. IGNORING TAXES, inflation for the annuity option, and assuming you never win any of the smaller prizes; it is actually a +EV purchase to buy a $1 ticket with Annuity option when the jackpot is greater than $146,107,962 and +EV to buy a $1 ticket with the Cash option when the jackpot is greater than $292,215,924.

The main problem with this is variance obviously because you could make these +EV investments your entire life and still never hit.

[zook]

My life goal is to win the lotto. I've been jobless for about 4 months now attempting to grind my way through it. If I won the lotto however, I wouldn't have to worry about it!

Food for thought...

There are actual times when playing the lottery is a +EV investment. I'll use the Powerball as an example. We have it here in PA and many other states have it. The odds of winning the grand prize (matching 5 white balls + 1 red ball) is 1 in 146,107,962. When you buy a $1 ticket you must choose your method of payment up front. You can choose Annuity which pays out in equal installments over 20 years or Cash which pays you all the money up front but you only get 50% of the prize. IGNORING TAXES, inflation for the annuity option, and assuming you never win any of the smaller prizes; it is actually a +EV purchase to buy a $1 ticket with Annuity option when the jackpot is greater than $146,107,962 and +EV to buy a $1 ticket with the Cash option when the jackpot is greater than $292,215,924.

The main problem with this is variance obviously because you could make these +EV investments your entire life and still never hit.

Why would you ignore taxes when they cut the prize almost in half and inflation for the annuity option, which cuts it by another half? Not to mention the possibility of a split pot, which gets really high when you have hundreds of millions of people playing for the huge Powerball jackpots.

Playing the lottery is NEVER +EV. Good website on the subject:

http://www.durangobill.com/PowerballOdds.html

My favorite part:

Government statistics show there are about 1.7 automobile caused fatalities for every 100,000,000 vehicle-miles. If you drive one mile to the store to buy your lottery ticket and then return home, you have driven two miles. Thus the probability that you will join this statistical group is 2 x 1.7 / 100,000,000 = 0.000000034. This can also be stated as "One in 29,411,765-". Thus, if you drive to the store to buy your Powerball ticket, your chance of being killed (or killing someone else) is about 5 times greater than the chance that you will win the Powerball Jackpot.

[yorib]

Trainer_jyms: I did divide your monthly daycare expenses by 4 to approximate a weekly basis. It's surprising (to me) how low your hourly wage needs to be to justify playing poker (or any other non-taxable home-based business).

[Laeelin]

Laee needs to move near a big city

This morning I felt like taking a walk in the woods.

I walked out my back door, and kept walking.

After about 15 min I ran into a game trail and followed that for about 30 min before reaching the river. It a smaller one (no more than 8-9 foot deep and 15 foot wide) that marks the end of our backyard, so I stopped and walked along the river for about 30 min. After seeing a lot of keeper bass I walked back home and picked up my fishing gear and walked back.

2 hours later I finished my lunch of fresh bass and started work.

Sorry, I dont like the city life.

I like my 180 acres.

I like the fact that the fish in the river in our backyard to are safe to eat.

I like walking out my front door and seeing a herd of deer or flock of turkey(I dont hunt, but I love watching wildlife).

When I want to go to the city it's just a 45 min drive, so I still have the city for when I'm crazy enough to want it.

Thanks, but no thanks.

I think I'll go fishing with my son now.

[Bmxicle]

If you are a pokerplayer, 100-200/hour is good money.

pffffffffffft

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[jyms]

Trainer_jyms: I did divide your monthly daycare expenses by 4 to approximate a weekly basis. It's surprising (to me) how low your hourly wage needs to be to justify playing poker (or any other non-taxable home-based business).

I think that is the point I'm making. Is it not? I don't like to think that if I was to quit work right now, making 28+/hr, deducting all my going to work expenses, and figuring what I would need to break even. If you take into account

1) Time = 40 hrs. / week
2) Commute = 1.5 hrs. / week
3) Expenses = $150/gas, $80/ food and drink, $125 daycare
4) Vehicle maint. = unknown

Would it be that hard to make after tax income in the hours I work and commute now?? Maybe. I'm sure without knowing my game, no one could give a difinitive answer, but has anybody had a problem with playing full time poker (5+ /hrs. a day, 5 or 6 days a week) at a lower limit? Say 25NL or 50NL. And make for arguments sake, $800 a week ($20 / hr x 40 hrs. )playing 20 or 30 hours.

20 hrs / $25NL = 3200BB = 160 bb/hr
30 hrs / $25NL = 3200BB = 107 bb/hr
20 hrs / $50NL = 1600BB = 80 bb/hr
30 hrs / $50NL = 1600BB = 53 bb/ hr

[Bmxicle]

My life goal is to win the lotto. I've been jobless for about 4 months now attempting to grind my way through it. If I won the lotto however, I wouldn't have to worry about it!

Food for thought...

There are actual times when playing the lottery is a +EV investment. I'll use the Powerball as an example. We have it here in PA and many other states have it. The odds of winning the grand prize (matching 5 white balls + 1 red ball) is 1 in 146,107,962. When you buy a $1 ticket you must choose your method of payment up front. You can choose Annuity which pays out in equal installments over 20 years or Cash which pays you all the money up front but you only get 50% of the prize. IGNORING TAXES, inflation for the annuity option, and assuming you never win any of the smaller prizes; it is actually a +EV purchase to buy a $1 ticket with Annuity option when the jackpot is greater than $146,107,962 and +EV to buy a $1 ticket with the Cash option when the jackpot is greater than $292,215,924.

The main problem with this is variance obviously because you could make these +EV investments your entire life and still never hit.

wrongwrongwrongwrongwrong

cause when the prize pool is over 146blahblah blah people will start having the same ticket number as you thus making you split the prize with them.

[Anonymous]

My life goal is to win the lotto. I've been jobless for about 4 months now attempting to grind my way through it. If I won the lotto however, I wouldn't have to worry about it!

Food for thought...

There are actual times when playing the lottery is a +EV investment. I'll use the Powerball as an example. We have it here in PA and many other states have it. The odds of winning the grand prize (matching 5 white balls + 1 red ball) is 1 in 146,107,962. When you buy a $1 ticket you must choose your method of payment up front. You can choose Annuity which pays out in equal installments over 20 years or Cash which pays you all the money up front but you only get 50% of the prize. IGNORING TAXES, inflation for the annuity option, and assuming you never win any of the smaller prizes; it is actually a +EV purchase to buy a $1 ticket with Annuity option when the jackpot is greater than $146,107,962 and +EV to buy a $1 ticket with the Cash option when the jackpot is greater than $292,215,924.

The main problem with this is variance obviously because you could make these +EV investments your entire life and still never hit.

wrongwrongwrongwrongwrong

cause when the prize pool is over 146blahblah blah people will start having the same ticket number as you thus making you split the prize with them.

Why not just buy 146 million tickets and you are sure to win. Then it's +EV right?

[Renton]

Why not just buy 146 million tickets and you are sure to win. Then it's +EV right?

remember, state lotteries collect an enormous rake which pays for state institutions

[samsonite2100]

I think any money is good money if you like what you do to make it. I squeak by running sound at a club and playing poker to supplement my income. But I like doing those things, and am willing to go w/out certain luxuries to ensure that ends meet.

I have made many more $$ an hour at other jobs in the past, but I've had to wake up at 7, commute to work, spend all day in a cubicle, commute home at 5:30, rinse, repeat. That's bad money to me, b/c it's money made at the expense of my happiness.

[Laeelin]

Why not just buy 146 million tickets and you are sure to win. Then it's +EV right?

A company (group of companies?) in florida tired to do this once when we had a HUGE prize. (no one won and it kept rolling over to the next week for a while...)

The were turned down because printing that insane number of tickets in the required timeframe wasnt reasonable...

If i remember correctly, then would have needed to split the prize 3 ways before loseing money was possible.

[givememyleg]

Why not just buy 146 million tickets and you are sure to win. Then it's +EV right?

lol me and my friends talked about this once. Imagine the time to print and check every single ticket. For the megamillions it prints 10 per ticket, and that would be 14,600,000 tickets. Then imagine checking every single ticket.