Wow. Freedom of speech?

[DetroitHusling101]

What has the U S of A came to?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE

[Zee Devee]

holy shit

[Anosmic]

It really shouldn't be viewed as a freedom of speech issue. It wasn't like the guy was dragged from a debate or Q&A because he asked something sensitive.

The guy rushed the mic, disrupted the event. I mean, does the first amendment right mean that you can rush in during the state of the union and demand to be heard?

Guy was obviously a dickhead more interested in making a spectacle than really putting his question to Kerry.

That said, security mishandling FTW. And you have to wonder if they over-react in this situation is there a slippery slope to the "he's being overly critical of the guy on stage, get him outta here"?

If you've seen e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyvrqcxNIFs
you'll know that these guys seem to feel they can use a taser to coerce behaviour not just defend themselves from danger... pretty sick

[andy-akb]

Cant you hear Kerry say "Let me answer his question" and then the security come in and the guy just goes nuts?

Fucking liberals hating America.

[biondino]

There's a difference between hating America and hating the shitty things about America and wanting to make them better.

[Pelion]

The guy rushed the mic, disrupted the event. I mean, does the first amendment right mean that you can rush in during the state of the union and demand to be heard?

Thats just not what happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqAVvlyVbag&NR=1

Check out the beginning of this one. Kerry clearly asks the guy for his question. Admittedly it takes him a while to get around to it but he certainly doesn't "rush the mic".

It really does look like he was arrested for his question.

Im interested in why you think he rushed the mic?

[Pelion]

The disturbing thing is that people seem to think that because the cops dont have to exert themselves its somehow moral. This is no better than saying "stand up or ill stamp on your fingers again".

[TwoKicker]

Your country sucks

[a500lbgorilla]

So does yours.

[Reidak]

The problem was he wasn't complying. If you are put under arrest it doesn't mean that you will be charged for anything. It was obviously a very public affair, the person in question had thousands of witnesses.

Nothing would have came of it if he just accepted what was coming, and didnt try to fight 6 or 7 security guards. They were doing what they felt was right, they felt they had justifiable means to take this action.

I am not saying this is right by any means. But don't fight them. Its like yelling at the ref in sports.

Just comply, walk out; Kerry would have answered the question regardless of him being there or not. He probably would have just been taken out of the room or the building, but instead he chose to fight authority and he got what he deserved for his actions.

Anyone agree?

[Pelion]

Yes because torture is a perfectly acceptable response to people "not complying". Tasers were introduced as a "less lethal" alternative to guns. They are supposed to be used in dangerous situations, not when someone has already been restrained.

[Ash256]

No doubt the kid should've complied, maybe shouted a bit but definitely not tried to squirm his way out of 5-6 security people.

But, the taser is totally wrong. As far as I know, the taser should be used as an alternative to guns when the police are in danger.

A skinny student squirming around on the floor wailing isn't really putting 6 officers in danger.

[Warpe]

There was a clip on the news this morning of the same student standing at a busy street corner around the time of the latest Harry Potter book release, holding up the book along with a big sign that said, "Harry Dies".

All sorts of people were swearing at him from their car windows and then cop car drives by and you hear an officer say over the cruiser's PA speaker, "That's just wrong."

Pretty funny stuff.

clip here:
http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?...c.msn.com/&fg=

[DetroitHusling101]

The guy rushed the mic, disrupted the event. I mean, does the first amendment right mean that you can rush in during the state of the union and demand to be heard?

Thats just not what happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqAVvlyVbag&NR=1

Check out the beginning of this one. Kerry clearly asks the guy for his question. Admittedly it takes him a while to get around to it but he certainly doesn't "rush the mic".

It really does look like he was arrested for his question.

Im interested in why you think he rushed the mic?

Yeah i would also like to know why you think he rushed the mic. I do not see that anywhere.

I was arrested last year for disorderly person and not once did i resist arrest but the police still decided they needed to use excess force and went about socking me in the kidneys and hitting me with the billy club in front of my mother.
All because i wouldn't "shut up" , the fact of the matter is i was already in handcuffs being escorted to the squad car , already restrained , i'll admit i was being an asshole popping off at the mouth still but still no reason to assault me.
My last visit to county jail was on false breaking and entering charges. I was walking home from a friends. Was tooken into a house without my will by 3 guys , jumped and robbed , and they proceeded to call the police and say i broke in. Breaking and Entering was obviously dropped but i still got stuck with disorderly person for the way i acted after being arrested. How is someone suppose to act after being jumped robbed and "kidnapped" , than being the one put in jail and losing a job because i couldn't post bail?
Beats me. I guess we should all just be sheep and comply.

[DetroitHusling101]

All because police in my city do not like me. Another funny story
about 2 years back me and my g/f come home at about 4 a.m. to my apartment door being kicked in. My 2 firearms are missing. An AR-15 and a .22 Caliber Long Rifle (A Pea shooter). I make the police report because the guns are registered in my name and I'm not gonna take blame if something happens.. They catch the guys a day later. Not that i wanted charges brought upon them but the simple fact that NO ONE was charged with breaking and entering was pretty funny. All because i sold drugs and the police knew this. Scary thing is , same person who kicked in my door and stole my firearms kicked in someones door a few months back but the people were home and he shot the guy right in front of his 6 month old daughter , NOW finally he is facing real charges. Chances are I would have been shot if i was home when he kicked my door in.

[euphoricism]

All because i sold drugs and the police knew this.

I bet your testimony would go over GREAT on the witness stand!

[DetroitHusling101]

All because i sold drugs and the police knew this.

I bet your testimony would go over GREAT on the witness stand!

I would never sit on a witness stand first off.
I was supina'd (SP? LOL) to the case but more or less i just sat in the hallway and was never asked anything by the prosecuter. Just a waste of time and a good way to make me look as if im a snitch.

[euphoricism]

Theres several things going on there.

A) The prosecutor doesn't always charge the person with everything they can. The people were probably arrested for something much "bigger" and throwing 30 days in county for a B&E is a detriment to their case because they dont want the jury's attention diverted from whatever "bigger" thing they did

B) Their defense would be that they didnt steal them, you gave it to them. Bullshit, but unless you can prove you didn't, they go free. So there you go up on the stand..

Defense attorney: "Is it true that you sell drugs?"
You: "Well, yes"
Defense: "Is it even possible that you gave these people your guns?"
You: "Of course not"
Defense: "Why?"
You: "Because I wouldnt do that."
Defense: "It's not even possible?"
You: "No"
Defense: "Why do you refuse to admit that it is even possible?"
Defense: "You're saying it's not even possible that you gave them these weapons, either because you were trading the weapons for drugs and then planning on reporting them stolen anyway, or simply because you were high and don't remember doing it?"

Basically, you're more harm than good in court.


Also, why the hell if you say... "Chances are I would have been shot if i was home when he kicked my door in." and just before it say, "Not that i wanted charges brought upon them"

[euphoricism]

Re the video:

This guy was a class A douchebag.

Its pretty clear that before the video starts he was "uppity" and probably causing a disturbance. You can see the police on the right side of the video looking over their shoulder, probably awaiting on an order from a higher-up.

He was not being arrested, he was being forced off the microphone because he was probably rambling, saying stupid things, making unfounded accusations or what have you, and the police decided that was enough. You have a right to speech, you don't have a right to be an idiot.

You can see the officers simply trying to remove him from the mic, and then remove him from the building. He was NOT under arrest at this point.

He was under arrest once he began resisting their efforts to remove him.

The guy was trying to make a scene, and he succeeded. Even when he was on the floor he was still struggling. This will lead to your tasering. Dont do this.

But, the taser is totally wrong. As far as I know, the taser should be used as an alternative to guns when the police are in danger.

You don't know very far. A taser is not at all used as an alternative to a gun. Not at all.

[DetroitHusling101]

At the time i didn't think I would have been shot , but after what happened this summer now i wonder what would of happen if i was home.
The other charges at the time was 3 accounts of felony firearms. The one who just shot the guy actually got off the case involving my guns , his boy took the wrap. 3 days before the one who took the wrap had court he robbed a pizza guy at gunpoint and is now facing about 10 years.

[euphoricism]

Yeah, why try and prove B&E when the other charges are much more clear cut?

[DetroitHusling101]

That's true I was just saying it's funny how they totally ignore the fact that they kicked down someones door.

[Ash256]

But, the taser is totally wrong. As far as I know, the taser should be used as an alternative to guns when the police are in danger.

You don't know very far. A taser is not at all used as an alternative to a gun. Not at all.

That's how it's meant to be in the UK. Guy pulls out a knife, he gets tasered. As far as I know it's not used as a method of torturing someone into quitting struggling.

[jyms]

First off, he was a class A deuchbag obviously. When security first grabs him the audience starts applauding, obviously not from what he says in the first three seconds of the vid. Secondly, did anyone see a tazer? He wasn't tazed and he said "owe, owe, owe" I got news for yea, you don't say those things when tazed.

[Pelion]

lol why do the police keep saying "blah blah blah well taze you again" and stuff like that if they didnt do it the first time? Your powers of deduction are weak old man.

[Ash256]

First off, he was a class A deuchbag obviously. When security first grabs him the audience starts applauding, obviously not from what he says in the first three seconds of the vid. Secondly, did anyone see a tazer? He wasn't tazed and he said "owe, owe, owe" I got news for yea, you don't say those things when tazed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaiWCS10C5s

Another angle, where it's obvious he does get tased.

Am I the only one who feels that Kerry should've told the cops to leave the guy alone? As a politician who's meant to show leadership skills standing there murmuring isn't going to do much.

[jyms]

I don't hear that, I hear others saying, they tazed him, they tazed him.

[Ash256]

I don't hear that, I hear others saying, they tazed him, they tazed him.

Listen carefully and you hear the clicklicklicklikclikclick of the taser.

[bigred]

Guy's a dbag and honestly shouldn't have been flopping around like that yelling to let go of him. I don't think complying with the cop is being a sheep; it's complying with the fucking cop who's deemed it necessary you need to be taken out. While tazering can be excessive, I think this kid was asking for it.

The one thing I want to point out is that while it looks like they were grabbing him for the question, it's more likely because he shouldn't have been there so they were just waiting for orders from higher ups.

Also, Kerry couldn't do anything in that situation. He probably would have wanted the kid to be let go because this makes him look bad. However, it instantly became a police matter and Kerry is nothing more than a civilian in that situation.

Let's not put this thing into the category of police brutality. Sometimes dbags get what they deserve.

[boost]

fact: the guy got tazed, lets stop disputing this, its silly.

Is he a douche bag looking to get a rise? Maybe, however he did ask valid questions, did he not? He did not rush the mic, it was clearly his turn. And why in the hell are the cops in this roll? They should be the muscle, not the authority on what questions are ok to ask and so on. Maybe someone else gave them the signal that the guy needed to go? But the cops/whoever made the call certainly escalated the situation. The guy had only been talking for a few minutes tops, and kerry even seemed receptive to his questions, even if he was caught off guard.

The cops/whoever made the call handled this terribly.

The guy maybe was a bit of a douche, but srsly so what? Its just like when someone posted a video of some latino gangster lookin guy getting beat by a cop, "oh well he probably got whats coming to him, hes a felon, ect ect." No, douchebag, gangster, repeat felon, it doesnt matter. Its wrong to use excessive force unprovoked, people that think theres some sort of a grey area because someones not a saint are idiots, probably the same idiots that support all these god damn wars of aggression.

[bigred]

Boost, come over here so I can beat you for disagreeing. It's the American Way.

[boost]

You guys keep going back to this "he wasnt supposed to be there" and "he rushed the mic" theory. Why? We have zero evidence of this, if you watch the second video posted you can see that its actually very unlikely that this is true as he seems to have waited in line just like everyone else to ask his question.

He was told that he was going on for too long, however at the point that he was grabbed he had asked his question it seemed, and kerry was starting to answer. Kerry seemed to be patient with the kid, and so what was the problem?

IMO kerry shouldve made the call and no one else.

Also you are technically right about it no longer being in kerry's hands as he is just a civilian, but I still think he couldve used his clout to do something. A simple "hold on, let the man ask his question, I have no problem answering it." Almost surely would have defused this situation.

[IowaSkinsFan]

609.72 DISORDERLY CONDUCT. Subdivision 1. Crime. Whoever does any of the following in a public or private place,knowing, or having reasonable grounds to know that it will, or will tend to, alarm, anger or disturb others or provoke an assault or breach of the peace, is guilty of disorderly conduct, which is a misdemeanor:
(2) Disturbs an assembly or meeting, not unlawful in its character; or


Excessive and stupid? Yes. Retarded? Yes. Deserved to get arrested? According to this yes.


I don't excuse the cops for what they did. Tasering him was completely ridiculous and I hope those cops are suspended for it at the very least.

However, the guy didn't ask the question as if he wanted to ask an honest question. He could've asked "What do you think of conspiracy theorist who say that 'blah blah blah skull and bones or whatever'?" And let Kerry answer it. He pretty much made a threatening and insulting comments to Kerry and made a mockery of the entire forum. He essentially ruined a chance for many people to ask their honest questions to John Kerry. It wasn't fair for him to do this and he no doubt distrubed the event.

I will end this with saying yes, I do hate these young political d-bags who feel like doing this kind of shit is okay. But I will also say I consider myself a conspiracy theorist, but I'm not going into what I do and don't believe because that is way off topic. AND I will say they I pride myself in looking at situations as unbiased as possible.

You have to at least admit this guy was an idiot.

[boost]

hmm... isf... yah I agree with you I think, the guy was probably just looking to make trouble either way.

but really... read that statute, its so broad, thats why cops love it. They can charge nearly anyone with it.

[Ash256]

Boost, come over here so I can taser you for disagreeing. It's the American Way.

FYP :P

[UG]

Thing biggest thing here is they weren't arresting him. They were getting his ass away from the mic. He had his turn, it was up, and they weren't going to let him disrupt the question/answer session anymore. People talk about first amendment rights....well, Kerry was brought in by the university (they were probably paying him a large sum of money), so his university has the right to allow/deny any questions from the audience...They felt he was out of line so they wanted to get to the next question......they have that right.

The guy was obviously looking to make trouble. The question(s) he asked, the tone of his voice, how he rambled on and on, etc. When the cops first come over he makes an even bigger scene, "WHY ARE YOU ARRESTING ME!" Dude, they're not trying to arrest your ass they're trying to get you away from the mic to keep the session rolling. They're trying to get you away from the mic so you don't cause an even bigger scene by being a dipshit.

The dude succeeded in creating trouble. When they tried to remove him peacefully he went ape shit. They tried using a little more force and he went more ape shit, to cause a bigger scene. That's DISORDERLY CONDUCT, and yes now your ass can be arrested because you're not listening to the authorities (however right or wrong that actually may be). He then resists arrest, throwing himself around while (possibly) putting the officers in danger......they warn him if he doesn't chill the fuck out, he's going to get tasered.....then boom, it happens.

I truly don't understand what the big deal here is. Could it have been handled differently by all parties involved? Hell yes. The dude could have come off a little bit better on the mic, he could have walked away once he made his point and was asked to leave (his question may have been answered, but it would not have shed any new light on Skull and Bones, 9-11, or anything like that, so technically he was able to make his point).....the security guards and/or cops could have come at him a little differently so he didn't feel so threatened from the get-go....but c'mon, the dude was wrong and deserves what he got if you look at the entire situation.


P.S. I've been tasered before. It hurts like a motherfucker, but it does what it's meant to do. It makes you not be able to do shit so you can't hurt the authorities and you won't hurt yourself. Trust me, it's much better than having the men in charge bring out batons and beat the shit out of you with them...

Side-note: My buddy is a KC Area police officer. He's actually a S.W.A.T. member. A few of my friends allowed him to taser us at a party in front of a huge group of people because we thought it would be hilarious comedy....it was, but yes it did hurt like a motherfucker, but after a few minutes I was totally back to normal.

[euphoricism]

You guys need to watch the whole 10 minute video, not the 2 minute clip that people with agendas want you to see. You think it was a coincidence that the police just happened to be standing riiiight next ot him?

[UG]

You guys need to watch the whole 10 minute video, not the 2 minute clip that people with agendas want you to see. You think it was a coincidence that the police just happened to be standing riiiight next ot him?

Exactly.

Two minute clip: OMFG WTF THAT POOR GUY HE DIDN'T DESERVE THAT SHIT POLICE BRUTALITY OMG!

Full version: Wow, the dude kind-of deserved it.


Maybe he didn't deserve what he got if you look at it from a far-away point of view, but if you see how the chain of events went down from start to finish it makes a lot more sense. Again, everyone involved could have handled this better and none of this would have happened.

[euphoricism]

Kind of? People had been lined up for hours to ask Kerry a question and this guy hopped the line, stormed the mic, and started raving. Thats why the cops were *already there*. Kerry said let him ask, just trying to defuse the situation and get him out of there. And he ranted for about 3 or 4 minutes. They cut his mic off when he said "blowjob" and shortly after he was removed.


This guys an attention whore. When its all said and done, he'll have sued the police, Kerry, UF, and the police department just to keep his name in the news. And he'll probably be compensated.

[bigred]

Tazer Pelion

[givememyleg]

he definitely should not have been tazered... but yes he wanted to create a scene

[mrhappy333]

609.72 DISORDERLY CONDUCT. Subdivision 1. Crime. Whoever does any of the following in a public or private place,knowing, or having reasonable grounds to know that it will, or will tend to, alarm, anger or disturb others or provoke an assault or breach of the peace, is guilty of disorderly conduct, which is a misdemeanor:
(2) Disturbs an assembly or meeting, not unlawful in its character; or


Excessive and stupid? Yes. Retarded? Yes. Deserved to get arrested? According to this yes.


I don't excuse the cops for what they did. Tasering him was completely ridiculous and I hope those cops are suspended for it at the very least.

However, the guy didn't ask the question as if he wanted to ask an honest question. He could've asked "What do you think of conspiracy theorist who say that 'blah blah blah skull and bones or whatever'?" And let Kerry answer it. He pretty much made a threatening and insulting comments to Kerry and made a mockery of the entire forum. He essentially ruined a chance for many people to ask their honest questions to John Kerry. It wasn't fair for him to do this and he no doubt distrubed the event.

I will end this with saying yes, I do hate these young political d-bags who feel like doing this kind of shit is okay. But I will also say I consider myself a conspiracy theorist, but I'm not going into what I do and don't believe because that is way off topic. AND I will say they I pride myself in looking at situations as unbiased as possible.

You have to at least admit this guy was an idiot.

ISF, nice post. he could have done a better job asking his question.
I agree.

on a side note have you seen this video?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...753501&q=loose

[euphoricism]

he definitely should not have been tazered... but yes he wanted to create a scene

He absolutely should have been tasered. He was laying on the the floor, pushing, kicking, struggling. What would you prefer them do?

A) Pepper spray every person within a 6 foot radius (every cop would get hit with it, as well as anyone sitting nearby, further it stays in the air for quite a while and theyd probably have to end the little Q&A thing and evacuate)

B) Beat the guy with their billy clubs

C) Apply pressure points and submission tactics to the persons joints which *often* causes fractures, ligament tears, and unconsciousness (and lawsuits)

D) Ask nicely.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Euph i see your point but I feel violence should only be used when someone is posing a physical threat to another person or animal. Here he was being severly uncooperative but you might as well let him get punished for resisiting arrest. Let him try and escape if he wants, you have 6 officers there he's not going to be successful.

[kmind]

he definitely should not have been tazered... but yes he wanted to create a scene

Agreed. They could have gotten him in handcuffs without doing that.

[UG]

Two cops put on leave after arrest is made...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/18/stu...red/index.html

[lolzzz_321]

Tazer Pelion

[Deanglow]

I attend the school in question and if it wasn't for a class I had at the time, I would have gone to see Kerry. I am not personal friends with the guy, but I know people who know him. He takes pride in practical jokes; this is his site www.theandrewmeyer.com I'm almost positive he was just looking to make trouble but I doubt he deserved to be tasered.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

I don't see what the big deal is. The guy was clearly looking for attention and he got it. Don't be an attention whore and then try to make yourself out to be a martyr. If you don't wan't to get maced/beaten/tazered/shot then don't try fighting the police.

[gabe]

the guy should not have been tazered. im all for corporal punishment but this is stupid.

[UG]

the guy should not have been tazered. im all for corporal punishment but this is stupid.

He shouldn't have been tasered just be cause we shouldn't allow cops to do that, or what point are you trying to make?

I don't think he should have put himself in the position where he'd have to be tasered. He could have STFU when they asked him to, he could have left the scene when they asked him to, etc. I also don't think the cops should have let the situation escalate to the point where he had to be tasered. They definitely could have handled the situation a little differently so the guy didn't feel so threatened that he had to resist the way he did.

In reality, though, the guy that got tased is more in the wrong here. He was being a douche to begin with, trying to start trouble. Once they tried to remove him nicely at first, they got a little more physical with him when he started throwing an absolute hissy-fit. Then he started resisting arrest...What were the cops supposed to do?

1) Beat him with billy clubs until he submits? NO

2) Apply pressure points that could physically hurt him, causing pain for who knows how long if they fuck up somehow? NO

3) Let him go and say "sorry, you're cool, you have the right to be a douche-bag, a right to disrupt a planned meeting on campus. Go on your merry way our bad for thinking you didn't have the right to do that." NO

4) Do what they did, then when he resists arrest in the way that he did (throwing his arms and legs around which could possibly hurt/injure an officer) they taser his ass? YES


Again, being tasered hurts like a motherfucker, but it's temporary. It makes you not be able to really move your body at all for a few moments while being tasered and after it's done. It shocks the fuck out of you to settle your ass down. It's used in situations where people won't settle the fuck down...

Again, it shouldn't have happened, both sides are in the wrong.....but what better option was/is there? I agree with you a shit-ton on FTR but definitely not here, definitely not when you don't give an explanation for feeling the way you do.....and when you don't give another alternative route, knowing the situation, that everyone should have taken.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Wow i just sent that guy hate mail. I'm sorry I just had to vent. What an idiot.

[UG]

Wow i just sent that guy hate mail. I'm sorry I just had to vent. What an idiot.

post it here please?

[EasyT]

Easy contraversy. Man behaves badly. Authority reacts and behaves badly. You're both correct and justified in whichever side you choose. Which makes for "juicy" contraversy.

Personally, because I would never cause such a scene, I put myself in the shoes of the law on this one. In this scene, I'm probably THAT GUY trying to get the whipersnapper the heck out of the building because that is my job. When one of my cohorts in blue breaks out his tazer, and I get a cold sweat right there, knowing that just ain't right, and I'm going to lose my job with all the cameras rolling. But I can't really keep my job and break the chain of command, either. I thow up a little in my mouth and try to keep my head down. When my shift is over, I hope I have a really good woman to go home to. It's going to be rough from here on out.

[martindcx1e]

I haven't read all of the replies but this isn't a freedom of speech issue. The student was obviously a heckler. Hecklers are always escorted out of events like these. He resisted the escort and then resisted the arrest for a very long time. He was not tasered while in handcuffs like I've seen some ppl on TV saying. Those ppl need to rewatch the footage.

[mcatdog]

If you watch the longer video, if anything the cops waited too long to throw the douche out. He barged to the front of the line and rambled on for like two minutes before they finally tried to escort him out.

George, I agree with almost all of your post but I don't get how you come to the conclusion that the cops shouldn't have let the situation escalate. This attention whore was determined to make a scene and resist arrest. Even if John Kerry had answered his questions, I bet the little jerk would've piped up again and not shut up. How is the situation not going to escalate?

I think a lot of cops are jackasses so I was all ready to be on the kid's side but when I watched the video I was like, what did the cops do wrong?

Also, the OP of this thread sounds like a real piece of work. I'm surprised no one else has mentioned that yet.

[martindcx1e]

Also, the OP of this thread sounds like a real piece of work. I'm surprised no one else has mentioned that yet.

lol. i can already here tons of ppl referring to this incident as "the time that kid got tasered for asking a question." these people obviously have a political agenda or just auto-hate cops or something cuz that just didn't happen.

[Anosmic]

I haven't read all of the replies but this isn't a freedom of speech issue.

So you're just barging to the front and wanting to make yourself heard?

Someone tazer him.

The student was obviously a heckler. Hecklers are always escorted out of events like these. He resisted the escort and then resisted the arrest for a very long time. He was not tasered while in handcuffs like I've seen some ppl on TV saying. Those ppl need to rewatch the footage.

As I said earlier, he's clearly being an idiot and looking to make a scene. That's not really in question. It's also clear that he didn't have the right to be on that mic, he just took it out of turn, after questions had stopped and tried to get himself heard.

But, that said, Kerry invited his question, so he had the right to ask it. The officer's strongarm tactics at that point are misplaced.
Kerry ought to have done more to get the guy to come to a question, he's a politician and should be able to handle the situation, especially once the mic is cut.

As I say the went too far, too fast. It doesn't matter if they *know* he's a douchebag out to cause trouble, that's not what the police act upon because you can't have the situation where they haul someone off for talking crap in the realm of politics... it's just too slippery a slope.

Once they decide to escort him out they obviously go to pieces. Firstly two police officers cannot escort one student out of the room, and we're not talking a linebacker here. So they get the beefy guy in and he's able to remove him. So what do they do, they move him to the back of the room and put him down.
Now I don't know the layout but there'd have to be a solid tactical reason not to get him outside of the room and down. If outside of the room there would be no more disturbance to the event and if he's trying to make a spectacle of himself then remove his motivation, there would then be less time pressure on the officers to get him cuffed and away and to a degree they could just pin him until he calms down and co-operates.

From an outsiders point of view is that officers feel entitled to use the taser as a threat: "do what I want you to do or I'll inflict pain", this is NOT the same thing as saying "stop fighting or you'll just get yourself hurt".
Obviously in the library incident the threat of tazer-use on people demanding badge numbers is a whole different level of disturbing. But then the police have said as much..

Incidentally from this site http://www.starbanner.com/article/20.../BREAKING_NEWS I got the following:

After the incident, Capt. Jeff Holcomb of the UPD said Meyer had been charged with disrupting a public event and placed in the Alachua County Jail. Holcomb said there would be an investigation into whether the officers used force appropriately, adding that employing a Taser gun would only be justified in a case where there was a threat of physical harm to officers.

The threat of physical harm is clearly absent, if this is a true quote then I expect we're going to see disciplinary action as a result.

Police officers are obviously typically good people doing a difficult job and therefore they need reasonable standards of practice in handling unreasonable people. I don't know if the standards are lacking here or if they just failed to follow them properly.

[Pelion]

Exactly. And there was clearly no threat to anyone from this kid at the point tasers were used. There will also be no disciplinary action unless the media makes it a big enough deal that people high up in the police feel that they cant get away with NOT disciplining someone.

[chardrian]

And he'll probably be compensated.

Not unless the state attorney is even dumber than I am.

[UG]

George, I agree with almost all of your post but I don't get how you come to the conclusion that the cops shouldn't have let the situation escalate. This attention whore was determined to make a scene and resist arrest. Even if John Kerry had answered his questions, I bet the little jerk would've piped up again and not shut up. How is the situation not going to escalate?

I don't know of a better way to handle it, honestly, but there's got to be something in place for situations like this. Some way to remove the person peacefully. If I recall correctly (I'm not going to watch it again to make sure), the first two people to come up to him were security guards (I could be wrong). To top it off, they were both female and smaller than him. A few problems arise there...

1) They're campus security guards. They've got no real authority. Everyone knows this. Hell, my kids lip off and/or don't listen to the security guards on our high school campus all the time. Our kids at the H.S. level know that our guards have a certain amount of power, but it's not like they're real police officers so they know they can get away with more shit. If the first people to approach him had been real police officers, maybe things change a little bit because he knows it's a bigger issue and he should settle the hell down. Who knows? (If they were actually police officers, then this point doesn't go very far)

2) Both guards/officers are smaller than him and can't control the situation when they first approach him. I'm not a big guy, but I'm above average in size (6-1, 210lbs). If I'm trying to start shit, if I'm trying to cause chaos, and I see these two smaller individuals coming over to try to stop me I will be less inclined to stop doing what I'm doing. I won't see them as a threat, and I'm sure the kid didn't see them as much of a threat either. If they are small *and* only security guards it multiplies me not settling down by a lot.

3) The guards/officers were female. So what you have is two smaller female security guards, which sets things up to really not go well. Not to bring gender into this issue, but people in general are more inclined to fear males over females. They're stronger, quicker, faster, etc. They're more of a threat. All of this leads to three strikes against them, and possibly a total fuck-up on their part (at least in the beginning).


Would things have gone differently if two big male police officers approached him from the get-go? Maybe, maybe not. We'll never know, but my guess is that it would have gone a little better for all parties involved.

In the end, the dude deserved what he got. He's lucky it was in a VERY public place with cameras rolling everywhere. If it wasn't that dude would have eaten some concrete for sure, and/or the taser would have been brought out a lot faster...

[TheFaucet]

You see this shtt all the time with campus cops, they're second-rate and half of them are short fat chicks with Napolean complex who don't have the competence to take control of situations like this and that's how we end up with these messy incidents.

That kid was a huge pussy and instigator though, DON'T TAZE ME OWOWOWOWOW, the fk do you think happens when you resist arrest?
I mean, who does he think he is, Michael Moore? it's a Q&A session, not go on a 5 minute diatribe where you accuse Kerry of being a conspirator in 9/11, or whatever the kid's madcap theories were. He's obviously playing to the crowd as he's being dragged out, as if their support would somehow not get him arrested.

Kerry disgusts me too, droning on while the kid's getting subdued, pretending like it's not happening. He had the floor, and if he wanted to step in and diffuse the situation he probably could have. Then again Kerry is the epitome of the American pussy, conceding the election because of a Fox News broadcast. Did he even answer this kid's question? I didn't hear it.

[TheFaucet]

disgusting

[Warpe]

http://theandrewmeyer.com/

[UG]

http://theandrewmeyer.com/

TITLE: "Andrew Meyer arrested for speaking at a forum"

"While asking U.S. Senator John Kerry a question during a question and answer period following Kerry's speech at the University of Florida, Meyer was attacked by five police officers, manhandled and tasered."


LOL



I'm not sure why I've found this topic so interesting, or so amusing. Maybe it's because I'm a teacher and I could see how this same thing could go down in our school.

What a joke.

[IowaSkinsFan]

K George he's the email i sent. Hopefully there's some entertainment value.

Dear Andrew,
I must say I enjoyed the question you asked to Sen. John Kerry and I was interested in seeing how he would respond. Unfortunately, because you're a fucking attention whore and probably mentally retarded you decide to make a mockery of a legitimate forum, acting like not only you know more than God, but also like you were some sort of Martyr.
That being said the police shouldn't have tasered you. But do I blame them for making a mistake? No. What are they supposed to do? You're resisting them from doing their job. You did in fact engage in disorderly conduct. Whether or not that law is morally right is not the issue. It is not a police officers job to decide what laws are moral and what aren't, they simply are there to do their job. What other options did you give them? You flailed your arms like a little girl and screamed help. They told you to stop resisting and you didn't. In fact I'm betting you wanted to get tasered. I doubt you have any animosity towards them tasering you. At the time you probably thought to yourself "Yes, if I get tasered this will be all over T.V., it will get so much media attention!"

Wow, I can't believe how much of a douche bag you are. I could've sent this email in a way that may sway your thoughts on what you did that night being right. I chose not to because you are an ignorant piece of shit who will rot in hell. Great Job giving people who believe in conspiracy an even worse rep. If you thing you did us a favor you're wrong. God I can't believe how fucking stupid you are.

BTW whoever's reading this probably thinks this is some old coot. I am a 19 year old college student who considers himself to be a conspiracy theorist.

Thank you

[UG]

awesome

[UG]

P.S. I'm a member of a few other forums and your words, ISF, were pretty much in line with what everyone had to say there.


I haven't read CNN dot com or any other mainstream media "news"sources' posts about this topic (mainly because I was teaching hardcore today and didn't have time to surf the web at all), but I hope that the rest of the world falls in line with the way you (and I) think.

[Warpe]

there's some irony in being a Jewish conspiracy theorist

[sauce123]

I dont give a FUCK what the laws are pertaining to disorderly conduct. america is such a police state, especially lately...

this guy was clearly a huge douchebag, wasn't asking a particularly intelligent or cutting question, and was trying to get as much attention as possible.

what I find disturbing is that the moment he began to ask Kerry a question in a confrontational and combative voice/body posture, he was immediately rushed by cops. It just shows that these pseudo-public forums where the common man interacts with politicians are a sham. i already knew that these events r obviously just another part of the marketing, campaigning machine designed to get sheep off the couch and win districts. I guess what is just depressing to me is that the minute dissent was voiced in this environment, the knee-jerk reaction was to shut him up. there was no pretense of free speech here, no expectation of gaining a deep understanding of kerry's history or policies. gestapo fascist bullshit.

I hate politics....

[sauce123]

Caution: Rant


I guess the reason this pissed me off was that I've had multiple instances of the cops trampling all over my rights, one of which happened today.

I'm driving in my car with 4 friends from college, to a Dining Hall. I slow down, roll through a blinking red light and drive on down a street (no cars r in sight). about a third mile later, a cop pulls out from a parking lot and begins to follow me. I pull into a side road for the parking lot to the DC and he flashes his sirens and pulls me over. WTF? No one has any idea why he did this.

He walks up to my car and without even the std "do you know why I pulled you over?" He launches into "We have you on video and audio surveilance." WTF pt 2!

He then proceeds to tell me they have a video camera trained on that intersection at the behest of the town hall, which wanted to curb people not coming to a complete stop for fear of hitting a pedestrian (there are no crosswalks or prominent sidewalks on this road). So he walks back to his car and takes my license and registration. Once hes back there i joke to my friends "thank god i didnt give him my fake" and one yells at me for being so dumb- WE'RE UNDER SURVEILANCE. Cop comes back, gives me a fucking warning (after 20 min) asks me some dumb questions and leaves.

Ok, obviously this is no big deal but it highlighted a few points about the absolute hypocrisy of america and just disturbing tendencies of normal people.

1. this is just an expenditure of hundreds (maybe thousands) of dollars on a "service" who's only goal is to inconvenience and "train" people. its just so fucking dumb its scary. And you cant argue, or reason with this hubris because of the COP-EGO which will not allow an officer to crack a smile, or show any trace of identity.

2. it disturbs me i can be videotaped in any public place for any minor infraction and then be punished at the leisure of various administrative donkeys.

3. the genuine nervousness/fear of my friends. they all legitimately believed that the cop in the car was looking over our conversations for anything that could be a pretext to arrest us. And, not one person mentioned civil rights/liberties as anything but an abstract concept, there was no feeling that we actually HAD any privacy or legal recourse whatsoever. this is depressing on many, many levels.

4. I'm continually saddened by the hypocrisy present in America. Most see us as this shining beacon of civil liberties (which is partly true- compared to most places, we have a lot) but they r being quickly eroded by this administration, specifically. they really are just a bunch of fascists. example, the Patriot Act, implemented phone tapping without a warrant to fight terror. Question: do we have Osama's phone number? No, of course we fucking don't. logically, this is just a pretext to sift through massive volumes of data in the hope of uncovering "leads" which will lead to these terrorists. Ok, great. But question, if CIA drone #45678 is listening in on my conversation and I mention robbing a bank (say I'm being deadpan and go into details etc LOL). what is he going to do? let it slide- robbing a bank has nothing to do with terror? Oh, wait, maaaybe the money coming from that bank robbery will be used indirectly to fund terror! freeze his accnts, take him away etc. Now is it A-OK to arrest an actual bank robber like this? Do you arrest him before he robs the bank? what if someone mentions another crime? I guess its just that the vagaries of these breaches of civil liberties which we don't even see happening are kinda scary. It doesn't take that long to go from democracy to totalitarianism, remember, many of these thugs got voted IN to office originally (or at least held widespread support).

I just feel like there's such an acceptance for lying and corruption, soooo much apathy. sigh. anyways a really great movie about how one of these regimes operated is "The Lives of Others." the protagonist of the movie is one of the "listeners" and the way his character evolves is pretty amazing. check it out.

[sauce123]

that was a mega rant for sure.

I donno, some of the things the powerful do in this world just horrify me sooo much.

[bigred]

cliff notes: sauce doesn't stop at blinking red light which is the same thing as a stop sign, cop pulls him over for breaking law when sauce did in fact break the law, friends think they're in 1984 for whatever reason, emo rant about the US.

[a500lbgorilla]

Caution: Rant


I guess the reason this pissed me off was that I've had multiple instances of the cops trampling all over my rights, one of which happened today.

I'm driving in my car with 4 friends from college, to a Dining Hall. I slow down, roll through a blinking red light and drive on down a street (no cars r in sight). about a third mile later, a cop pulls out from a parking lot and begins to follow me. I pull into a side road for the parking lot to the DC and he flashes his sirens and pulls me over. WTF? No one has any idea why he did this.

He walks up to my car and without even the std "do you know why I pulled you over?" He launches into "We have you on video and audio surveilance." WTF pt 2!

He then proceeds to tell me they have a video camera trained on that intersection at the behest of the town hall, which wanted to curb people not coming to a complete stop for fear of hitting a pedestrian (there are no crosswalks or prominent sidewalks on this road). So he walks back to his car and takes my license and registration. Once hes back there i joke to my friends "thank god i didnt give him my fake" and one yells at me for being so dumb- WE'RE UNDER SURVEILANCE. Cop comes back, gives me a fucking warning (after 20 min) asks me some dumb questions and leaves. I wonder if cops purposefully irritate the "innocent" for no reason other than word-of-mouth complaints. The more people fear the police, even if its a fear of inconvenience, are they then more vigilant of the law?

Ok, obviously this is no big deal but it highlighted a few points about the absolute hypocrisy of america and just disturbing tendencies of normal people.

1. this is just an expenditure of hundreds (maybe thousands) of dollars on a "service" who's only goal is to inconvenience and "train" people. its just so fucking dumb its scary. And you cant argue, or reason with this hubris because of the COP-EGO which will not allow an officer to crack a smile, or show any trace of identity. Certainly a police force has many positives which I don't need to list here but as with any government implement program designed to "help" eventually it becomes inhabited with very frustrated people. They probably hate the "system" more than you and frustration is contagious.

2. it disturbs me i can be videotaped in any public place for any minor infraction and then be punished at the leisure of various administrative donkeys. 100% dead on. It's a terrible precedent that leads down a road I don't want to explore.

3. the genuine nervousness/fear of my friends. they all legitimately believed that the cop in the car was looking over our conversations for anything that could be a pretext to arrest us. And, not one person mentioned civil rights/liberties as anything but an abstract concept, there was no feeling that we actually HAD any privacy or legal recourse whatsoever. this is depressing on many, many levels. Though a marked improvement over a corrupt police force or a country that lacks such a defined legal system. The unfortunate part of the ignorance to civil liberties being you'll never be able to bring this issue up with the police officer, it'd be like shooting a bear with a .22 pistol.

4. I'm continually saddened by the hypocrisy present in America. Most see us as this shining beacon of civil liberties (which is incredibly true- compared to most places, we have a lot) but they r being quickly eroded by this administration, specifically. they really are just a bunch of fascists. example, the Patriot Act, implemented phone tapping without a warrant to fight terror. Question: do we have Osama's phone number? No, of course we fucking don't. Do you believe you're capable of intelligent conversation at this point? It sounds as if you yourself are reaching a boiling point. Frustration disconnects your ability to accept and sympathize while driving away your true desire to understand. logically, this is just a pretext to sift through massive volumes of data in the hope of uncovering "leads" which will lead to these terrorists. Ok, great. But question, if CIA drone #45678 is listening in on my conversation and I mention robbing a bank (say I'm being deadpan and go into details etc LOL). what is he going to do? let it slide- robbing a bank has nothing to do with terror? Oh, wait, maaaybe the money coming from that bank robbery will be used indirectly to fund terror! freeze his accnts, take him away etc. Fearing a touch of 1984? Part of me is too. But that's why the people are armed. My belief centers around people like you and I recognizing that if and when this does happen, our lives are forfeit for the better of our children. Now is it A-OK to arrest an actual bank robber like this? Do you arrest him before he robs the bank? what if someone mentions another crime? I guess its just that the vagaries of these breaches of civil liberties which we don't even see happening are kinda scary. It doesn't take that long to go from democracy to totalitarianism, remember, many of these thugs got voted IN to office originally (or at least held widespread support).

I just feel like there's such an acceptance for lying and corruption, soooo much apathy. Boarding on brainwashing. Blind love for our country will bite us in the ass if the right(wrong) president takes office. And I vote Republican. sigh. anyways a really great movie about how one of these regimes operated is "The Lives of Others." the protagonist of the movie is one of the "listeners" and the way his character evolves is pretty amazing. check it out.

[a500lbgorilla]

that was a mega rant for sure.

I donno, some of the things the powerful do in this world just horrify me sooo much.

I often yearn to see what it is they know that I don't.