aces vs. tightie

***** Hand History for Game 2560369491 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, August 19, 04:31:04 EDT 2005
Table Table 36646 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Wahoo2006 ( $208.60 )
Seat 2: TheBeatch ( $82.42 )
Seat 3: rolandlee75 ( $99 )
Seat 4: FuzzyJohn ( $75.60 )
Seat 5: ager234 ( $178.25 )
Seat 6: IamSpartycus ( $135.50 )
Seat 7: olobolob ( $111 )
Seat 8: JaredLK ( $38.93 )
Seat 10: TMH000 ( $92 )
Seat 9: XarXar ( $107.50 )
TMH000 posts small blind [$0.50].
Wahoo2006 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Wahoo2006 [ Ah Ad ]
TheBeatch folds.
rolandlee75 raises [$2.50].
FuzzyJohn folds.
ager234 folds.
IamSpartycus folds.
olobolob calls [$2.50].
JaredLK folds.
XarXar folds.
TMH000 folds.
Wahoo2006 raises [$9].
>You have options at Mini Step 1 #1014178 Table!.
rolandlee75 calls [$7.50].
olobolob folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Js, 2s, 6s ]
Wahoo2006 bets [$15].
rolandlee75 raises [$30].

ok, preflop I figured he had a solid hand. he was a rock. I was really thinking kk/qq/ak.

Wahoo2006 ?

reraise to 50. not a flop that you want to see additional cards with..either he outflopped you or not. im willing to gamble here.

if i reraise to 50 and he pushes?

If you reraise you will have to call his push, he doesnt have much more left.

You reraised him big before the flop. Flop is 3 spades. You bet close to pot and he MIN raises you. He doesn't want you to fold, he wants you to call. He has to put you on an overpair given the action. I say villain probably has JJ. AKs probably smooth calls on the flop. He could have QQ or KK but its going to cost you a lot to find out. And if he has the flush draw too then you arent a very big favourite. I think you can find a fold here but if you are willing to gamble then put him all in. I dont think it will be a horrible play as you will see QQ and KK here some of the time, the question is how often.

(I am assuming opponent is a rock, rocks dont minraise without the goods very often)

I guess this is one of those situations where you say "I wish you would have raised more" and muck while shaking your head.

I think he got KK or QQ with one Spade. So call hes reraise on the flop, if turn comes a spade checkfold, if it comes rag, just push.

Oh and pray that he aint got JJ, wich aint unlikely.

Actually the more I think about it he got JJ.... so just drop it right on the flop reraise.

My analysis weighs heavily on playerds mindset at these limit levels. Normally players are not comfortable playing hands like 99-JJ and AK post flop so they raise more PF trying to take it down right there
2.5BB raise is begging for a call. They like action with their big PP and are disappionted when everyone folds and they just pick up the blinds with their KK or AA.

Based on that, 2.5BB looks like KK in this case. Most likely with Ks. Since he's a rock, your PF reraise has him a little worried that his kings aren't good but players are this level aren't good enough to lay them down.

I would certainly put him on a spade draw. He probably has a pocket QQ or KK with 4spade draw after the flop. If he had flopped the nut flush he would have just smooth called on the flop hopeing to trap. I think you have to call here, paying off a set. On the turn, I would fold to a reraise all in.

Looks to me like he's got Nero's hand...666...

Originally Posted by DaHorror

Looks to me like he's got Nero's hand...666...

He's a rock and raised pre flop then called a very big raise pre flop as well. I think that pocket 6's is really really low on the list of his possible holdings.

I have to agree with possibly KK/QQ/Hopefully not JJ...But could he possibly have the other two aces? It seems very likely that he is holding the ace of spades. If he has KK/QQ and the flush draw, and he's a good player, would he min raise that flop? A min raise gives Greedo really good odds if he's holding the As...and Greedo's play up to this point indicates AA/KK. If villain holds KK with the flush draw, he probably won't put you on the other two kings because thats extremely unlikely. The only other likely hand is AA, and that could easily have the ace of spades in it. If he holds QQ with the flush draw, would he not be afraid of KK/AA with the better flush draw?

Min raising with pocket J's is weak beacuse it gives the flush too good of odds. Min raising QQ/KK with the flush draw is dangerous because opp could have AA with the flush draw. The only hand i would be COMFORTABLE min raising here, is the other two aces. (Or AsJx, but thats extremely unlikely givin the pre flop action from a rock).

No...he does not have JJ. You raised it enough to that he only barely has odds to call, and if he's a rock, he's not normally calling raises with PP's to hit the set. Not to mention, if he does have JJ, he would reraise more, because he doesn't want you to hit a flush draw when he has top set. If he has JJ and you have ANY spade, he's giving you odds to call. Think about it, if you had AA with the As in your hand, you'd still call that hoping for a spade.

Most likely he has KK with the Ks in his hand. YOu are a slight favorite.

Call his raise.

Then, bet 1/2 the pot on the turn, assuming no spade falls. If it does, well damn. check, and then see what he does.

If you bet 1/2 the pot on the turn and then he reraises all in, you can probably safely fold your hand. KK will merely call your bet, hoping you have QQ or an ace high flush draw.

I think I covered all the contingencies?

I dont think you can rule out JJ, the preflop raise was less than 10% of hero and opponents stack.

I think you can rule out JJ because of the combination of the minimum raise and the fact that the villian is a rock. Most rocks I see don't call raises with PP because "it's too risky".

But the more concrete evidence is that if he had JJ, he would more htan minimum raise because he'd be afraid of the flush draw getting in for cheap. Think about it; it would be $15 to call into a what...$45 dollar pot, plus implied odds against a set? That would be an easy call with the :As:.

He's giving awesome odds to call with the flush draw. A good player wouldn't do that with JJ, agreed.

But i dont' see how villain isnt' concerned that Greedo might be holding the As unless he himself is holding it. Thats why i say its AsKs(Would a rock play AK suited in position for a raise like that pre flop? Good pot odds vs an under pair after his initial raise), or the other two aces in his pocket.

Call, stop'n'go a non-spade.

ok. I pushed, he had aks. At the time I was thinking he could easily have kk/qq with a spade, but i wasn't thinking that if he did have that, he'd obviously be fearing I had an ace of spades.

I tend to go nuts on hands where I have shown great strength and get played back into. I think this (below) is how I should've played this (above) hand, but the reraise and everything makes me think that on the previous hand it was +EV to push any flop (with no k or q) - his implied odds were no good preflop - but I still could've maybe found a fold earlier.

***** Hand History for Game 2560516795 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, August 19, 05:41:30 EDT 2005
Table Table 36575 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Raptor258 ( $215.65 )
Seat 2: randyherring ( $0 )
Seat 3: Wahoo2006 ( $332.55 )
Seat 5: TMH000 ( $102.05 )
Seat 8: FuzzyJohn ( $207.05 )
Seat 6: rolandlee75 ( $111.45 )
Seat 10: YWNightmare ( $307.45 )
Seat 7: ALLU_CANEAT ( $97.30 )
Seat 9: dfwplsnt ( $115.10 )
Seat 4: Karuna ( $17 )
Karuna posts small blind [$0.50].
TMH000 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Wahoo2006 [ Ad Ac ]
rolandlee75 folds.
ALLU_CANEAT folds.
FuzzyJohn folds.
dfwplsnt calls [$1].
YWNightmare calls [$1].
Raptor258 folds.
Wahoo2006 raises [$4].
Karuna folds.
TMH000 folds.
dfwplsnt folds.
YWNightmare calls [$3].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qs, 4s, Ts ]
YWNightmare checks.
Wahoo2006 bets [$7].
YWNightmare raises [$20].
Wahoo2006 calls [$13].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2s ]
YWNightmare bets [$20].
Wahoo2006 folds.
YWNightmare does not show cards.
YWNightmare wins $68

Played horribly.

thanks mr. obvious man, time to go eat your pissed in cheerios?