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Bad call deep-stacked?

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  1. #1
    sarbox68's Avatar
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    Default Bad call deep-stacked?

    So my Flop bet was to push out the drawing odds and get shortie all in. Then came the AI push RR from the deep-stacked villain (14.7/6.5/3). I put TPTK, OP and a flush draw as all possibilities given the huge overbet. W/ no 3bet PF, I discounted AA given her stats. I couldn't see laying down KK (incl Kh) on this board...

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

    Hero ($18.70)
    MP2 ($9.60)
    MP3 ($2.25)
    CO ($1)
    Button ($2.40)
    SB ($10.60)
    BB ($14.45)
    UTG ($13.90)
    UTG+1 ($2.10)

    Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K, K.
    UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.5, 3 folds, Button calls $0.50, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.40.

    Flop: ($1.65) 2, 4, J (3 players)
    UTG checks, Hero bets $1.9, Button calls $1.90 (All-In), UTG raises to $13.4 (All-In), Hero calls $11.50.

    Turn: ($7.35) 4 (3 players, 2 all-in)

    River: ($7.35) 8 (3 players, 2 all-in)

    Final Pot: $30.35
  2. #2
    Chopper's Avatar
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    i dont see AJ do this very often. it does happen at our levels, but not a lot.

    whatever it is, it usually beats TPTK. in fact, in a raised pot, it should beat AA, as its repping the nuts.

    i figure it for JJJ or another set. but, i dont discount QQ-AA and flush draws. villain is figuring since you put shorty AI, on purpose, you cant let go of whatever you hold...so he shoves to maximize the draw or because he has you beat.

    i dont lay this down usually, but into my $2, a full stack shove is pretty serious. i certainly look through notes for a read.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  3. #3
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    Deep stacked with no read I would let it go. The only hands you do beat that really play like that would be AJ and QQ. AA, JJ, 44, 22, have you in big trouble. Also, the limp/call preflop looks like a small pocket pair. It is definitely played like a set as well.
  4. #4
    Pythonic's Avatar
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    I'd say villian has AA or set for sure.
    Never bet on a white man in the heavyweight division!
  5. #5
    Dunno. Calling is made easier if you're OOP.
  6. #6
    The limp call preflop and psycho shove on a drawy flop is 22/44 almost always.

    The key with this hand is that shortie is already allin so UTG cant really be bluffing (unless maybe trying to buy overcard outs but thats not very likely) .

    That puts UTG on at least TP. There arent any 2 pair hands she could realistically have so its pretty much to want to put any money in

    22/44/JJ/AJ/KJ/QJ/TJ/QQ/AA

    It is also quite significant that the J is one of the two hearts because that removes hands like J Q from her range.

    This player probably raises JJ, QQ and AA preflop and maybe even AJ so that reduces her range of hands that hit this flop (before the shove) to

    22/44/KJ/QJ/TJ/(maybe AJ).

    We know that a limp call with 22 or 44 certainly makes sense given her stats. But the top pair hands don't make nearly as much sense. Limp calling preflop with any of the top pair type hands we have put in her range seems a little unlikely. AJ probably folds or raises and maybe limps. KJ/QJ/TJ probably fold and maybe limp. Going totally psycho with just one pair on the flop after playing it fairly timidly preflop seems even less likely, especially coming from such a nitty player. It seems fairly obvious that we aren't ahead anywhere near half the time in this spot. Also the K only adds a couple of percent to our equity and probably takes just as much off by making something like KX even less likely.

    Theres hardly any dead money in the pot and we are pretty WA/WB to all of her possible hands so it's enough to just ask if we are likely to be ahead at this point. The way she played it makes perfect sense for a set and hardly any sense for a top pair type hand on any street so this should be a pretty quick fold.
    gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

    bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
  7. #7
    The pot is protected, so it's much easier fold. You beat only QQ/AJ and villain likely just calls or raises small with those hands. Most likely you're crushed here.
    "How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
  8. #8
    sarbox68's Avatar
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    So.... what you're all saying is I should have known that my top pair would be squashed by his quad 4s.....

    Thanks for some great responses! If I can learn to get away from these mashings (without turning into a weak-tightie...), my dollars will most definitely improve.
  9. #9
    Chopper's Avatar
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    no way you can know its quads, but you can get away all the same.

    at these stakes, weak-tights dont get pummeled like up higher. just keep the pots small when you dont have a monster. and, push like hell when you do.

    and, really respect serious aggression. these days the fuccccciing minraise is becoming serious aggression, too, btw.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

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