Can I call here?

I have no solid reads on villain. He just sat down a bit ago, limped a few times. He's probably horrible. Stupid spade on the turn makes this a tough decision IMO...
advice all streets welcome

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG ($55.20)
UTG+1 ($117.60)
MP1 ($55.30)
MP2 ($146.90)
MP3 ($97)
CO ($85.15)
Hero ($80.35)
SB ($17.50)
BB ($35)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, Q.
UTG calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1, 4 folds, Hero raises to $5, 2 folds, UTG calls $4, UTG+1 calls $4.

Flop: ($16.50) 6, J, A (3 players)
UTG bets $8, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls $8.

Turn: ($32.50) 9 (2 players)
UTG bets $42.2 (All-In), Hero.........

I would gamble with him here.

This is tough. I can't blame you for calling or folding. Flip a coin?

Originally Posted by Fnord

I would gamble with him here.

Me too. CAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

If I'm getting good pot odds to call an all-in, my hand might be good, and I know I have outs even if it isn't, I just hate folding. I posted a hand in the SNG forum on the same concept.

In SnGs the chips aren't as deep and the players are under time pressure to be more aggressive. In a tourney I insta-call this!

Sure looks like 2 pair turned up there somewhere...but you just can't give most people enough credit not to gamble here.

Such a nit. I should have put up a prop bet to buy-out your action....

PokerStars Game #4047198527: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/02/21 - 02:11:46 (ET)
Table 'Myrrha II' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: saktastic ($39.95 in chips)
Seat 2: Lukie ($137.10 in chips)
Seat 3: takeitdown89 ($105.10 in chips)
Seat 4: Robt1975 ($51.45 in chips)
Seat 5: Fnord ($209.90 in chips)
Seat 6: hitinlicks ($65.50 in chips)
Seat 7: kamaroes ($61.95 in chips)
Seat 8: whorasaurus ($60.50 in chips)
Seat 9: angus88 ($35.30 in chips)
takeitdown89: posts small blind $0.50
Robt1975: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Fnord [7c Qh]
Fnord: folds
hitinlicks: folds
kamaroes: folds
whorasaurus: folds
angus88: folds
saktastic: raises $5 to $6
Lukie: raises $11 to $17
takeitdown89: folds
Robt1975: folds
saktastic: calls $11
*** FLOP *** [6h 6d Tc]
saktastic: bets $22.95 and is all-in
Fnord said, "nh luke"
Lukie said, "u gotta be kiddingg"
Lukie: Time bank activated
Lukie: calls $22.95
*** TURN *** [6h 6d Tc] [Jh]
*** RIVER *** [6h 6d Tc Jh] [4s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
saktastic: shows [9s 3s] (a pair of Sixes)
Lukie: shows [Kc Ac] (a pair of Sixes - Ace kicker)
Lukie collected $78.40 from pot

hand 1: I felt sick hitting the call button, thinking I probably need to improve on the river, and if that was the case, I certainly don't have the odds to. Villain had Ad 6d which held up.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Such a nit. I should have put up a prop bet to buy-out your action....

PokerStars Game #4047198527: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/02/21 - 02:11:46 (ET)
Table 'Myrrha II' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: saktastic ($39.95 in chips)
Seat 2: Lukie ($137.10 in chips)
Seat 3: takeitdown89 ($105.10 in chips)
Seat 4: Robt1975 ($51.45 in chips)
Seat 5: Fnord ($209.90 in chips)
Seat 6: hitinlicks ($65.50 in chips)
Seat 7: kamaroes ($61.95 in chips)
Seat 8: whorasaurus ($60.50 in chips)
Seat 9: angus88 ($35.30 in chips)
takeitdown89: posts small blind $0.50
Robt1975: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Fnord [7c Qh]
Fnord: folds
hitinlicks: folds
kamaroes: folds
whorasaurus: folds
angus88: folds
saktastic: raises $5 to $6
Lukie: raises $11 to $17
takeitdown89: folds
Robt1975: folds
saktastic: calls $11
*** FLOP *** [6h 6d Tc]
saktastic: bets $22.95 and is all-in
Fnord said, "nh luke"
Lukie said, "u gotta be kiddingg"
Lukie: Time bank activated
Lukie: calls $22.95
*** TURN *** [6h 6d Tc] [Jh]
*** RIVER *** [6h 6d Tc Jh] [4s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
saktastic: shows [9s 3s] (a pair of Sixes)
Lukie: shows [Kc Ac] (a pair of Sixes - Ace kicker)
Lukie collected $78.40 from pot

Maybe all the tables I was playing tonight was turning me into a nit, but I think villain has QT/88ish type hands here often enough for this to be a pretty tough decision here. Keep in mind I'm blatantly representing QQ-AA, my opponent doesn't seem to care (he probably also doesn't try to put people on hands, but let's skip that for now), and in reality, I only have ace-high...

How can you possibly sleep at night after making such a horrible call!

44 games 0.050 secs 880 games/sec

Board: Ac Js 6c 9s
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 38.6364 % 38.64% 00.00% { AsQs }
Hand 2: 61.3636 % 61.36% 00.00% { Ad6d }

EV: -$3

Will you feel better if the next round of drinks is on me?

(loosely quoted)

Fnord: Well, I made enough to finally pay off my hooker bill for the night, nice gambling with you all!

Originally Posted by Lukie

Maybe all the tables I was playing tonight was turning me into a nit, but I think villain has QT/88ish type hands here often enough for this to be a pretty tough decision here.

Meh, he'll also check/call a lot when he hits. I think that when you put half his stack in pre-flop you got to be ready to throw in the rest in on all but the most hopeless of flops. T66 is a pretty good board for AK.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

1,276 games 0.016 secs 79,750 games/sec

Board: 6c Js Ac 9s
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 26.6458 % 26.65% 00.00% { AsQs }
Hand 2: 73.3542 % 73.35% 00.00% { JJ, 99, 66, AKs, AJs, A6s, AKo, AJo, A6o }

A bit pessimistic from my end, but I just have a hard time seeing hands worse then AQ pulling this line on me, especially given my tight image. Truthfully I think it just depends on the players moreso then the cards here. Probably a call against most.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Originally Posted by Lukie

Maybe all the tables I was playing tonight was turning me into a nit, but I think villain has QT/88ish type hands here often enough for this to be a pretty tough decision here.

Meh, he'll also check/call a lot when he hits. I think that when you put half his stack in pre-flop you got to be ready to throw in the rest in on all but the most hopeless of flops. T66 is a pretty good board for AK.

Yeah you are probably right. I obviously VASTLY overestimated his hand range given the preflop action...

2,420 games 0.005 secs 484,000 games/sec

Board: Ac Js 6c 9s
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 55.8264 % 51.49% 04.34% { AsQs }
Hand 2: 44.1736 % 39.83% 04.34% { AA, JJ, 66, A2s+, ATo+, A6o }

Then consider hands like KQ ....

Originally Posted by Lukie

Yeah you are probably right. I obviously VASTLY overestimated his hand range given the preflop action...

With AK in that spot (with shallow money) you got to make a call pre-flop as to where you're at. You thought you were good and went for the hammer, getting cold feet on the flop after half the money is in is kinda silly (online.)

How do you play preflop if you are me? Stack sizes are very awkward here. I was expecting him to push if he was going to enter the pot, not call and push a pretty dry board.

At the time I knew I was far ahead of his range, hence the 3-bet, but like I said it leaves me very little wiggle room in the situation that came up.

Originally Posted by Lukie

How do you play preflop if you are me?

Depends on what I think of him. If I'm going to gamble it up here, I would go at least $18, maybe just round it up to $20 to make it prefectly clear we're playing for his stack.

Following through adds to the implied threat next time you make a move on someone like that.

Originally Posted by Lukie

(loosely quoted)

Fnord: Well, I made enough to finally pay off my hooker bill for the night, nice gambling with you all!

(loosely quoted)

El Diablo: One of the keys to making a lot of money at NLHE is putting in a vastly different amount of money with a given holding depending on who your oppponent is.

Lukie, here is some homework for you. Grab a couple Franklins and buy into your local 3/6 game. Even if you have no clue how to play Limit, a couple hours shouldn't set you back much and you'll probably even figure to make a buck or two. Then talk strategy at the table, but don't lecture, LISTEN. Hear and see first hand just how f'd up people's views on how to play this game are for real money. Watch them drop Franklins like some kiddie dropping quarters into the Pac-Man machine.

Fnord, thats good advice. Let me give my favorite example-- While playing 3/6 at the local casino a hand came up where a player had 2 pair and gave a free card to 2 players on the turn. A guy who was open ended caught his straight and said, "Thanks for the free card." The player who gave it responded, "Well what's the point of betting? You had a straight draw, so you weren't gonna fold. I saved myself a bet, actually."

lol
i talk all sorts of crp at a table i cant help myself

Originally Posted by Fnord

Originally Posted by Lukie

(loosely quoted)

Fnord: Well, I made enough to finally pay off my hooker bill for the night, nice gambling with you all!

(loosely quoted)

El Diablo: One of the keys to making a lot of money at NLHE is putting in a vastly different amount of money with a given holding depending on who your oppponent is.

Lukie, here is some homework for you. Grab a couple Franklins and buy into your local 3/6 game. Even if you have no clue how to play Limit, a couple hours shouldn't set you back much and you'll probably even figure to make a buck or two. Then talk strategy at the table, but don't lecture, LISTEN. Hear and see first hand just how f'd up people's views on how to play this game are for real money. Watch them drop Franklins like some kiddie dropping quarters into the Pac-Man machine.

I don't remember exactly what you said, but I thought it was pretty ingenious. It was pretty close to what I 'loosely quoted'. It's hard not to remember somebody who says something like that and I'm sure the next time a fish is sitting with you, he's going to stay there for awhile. In all honesty I was lmao at your table talk, but it's perfectly realistic that some horrible players took you seriously.

Hehe, I remember ElD saying that on 2+2. He is somebody whom I've learned a lot from, but I'm just a lurker there. You're sn on that site is fnord_too, correct?

The closest I can relate to your thing about live table talk is at my home games. In all honesty, some of my friends are terrible players and one in particular loves to piss his money away playing online poker. He just doesn't understand why he needs to be betting more then $1 into a $5 pot with trips on a draw heavy board, because betting more will 'scare everyone away'. Then I try to tell him KQ, which he thinks is a premium, should not, under any circumstances until he understands the game better, ever be played to a preflop raise. The look on his face was priceless, 'ARE YOU CRAZY!?'

In any case, I definately see your point. Just let the fishies be the fishies and try to fit in. If I did not know you, I admit I'd probably initially underestimate your game, but it rapidly becomes clear whether or not your opponents have a clue or not. I like the 'gambling' atmosphere that you try to promote.

Also, one last thing.. I have a question for you. I'm strictly an NL player, and of late, pretty much a strict NL ring player, although I'm well aware of how to play low M MTT/SnG situations, etc. I have considered learning limit, to improve my NL game (?), understand poker better (kind of goes together with improving my NL game, but also other games I may try to get good at in the future, such as 7cs or omaha), and to just sit down and run over a table of fish if I so happen to see one. Thoughts? If you think it's a good idea, do you have any resources (books) that would be of help? I have sklansky's hold 'em poker which I have not read, and would probably get small stakes holdem by Miller. Anything you say I would consider helpful and valuable.