correct laydown?

$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, April 30, 19:22:10 ET 2006
(Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: GhostTomJoad ( $24.72 )
Seat 2: Web_Spider ( $27.66 )
Seat 3: MW_PP ( $22.10 )
Seat 4: HMRC69 ( $16.25 )
Seat 5: KsKryptonite ( $14.31 )
Seat 6: MalditaSuerT ( $43.91 )
Seat 7: jokerjay06 ( $25.64 )
Seat 10: sontodh ( $27.30 )
Seat 9: DontFoldEver ( $35.33 )
Seat 8: mn2brs ( $18.25 )
MW_PP posts small blind [$0.10].
HMRC69 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to DontFoldEver [ Jd Qs ]
KsKryptonite folds.
MalditaSuerT folds.
jokerjay06 calls [$0.25].
mn2brs folds.
DontFoldEver calls [$0.25].
sontodh calls [$0.25].
GhostTomJoad folds.
>You have options at Table 98372 Table!.
Web_Spider folds.
MW_PP calls [$0.15].
HMRC69 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9s, 9d, Qc ]
MW_PP bets [$0.40].
HMRC69 folds.
jokerjay06 folds.
DontFoldEver calls [$0.40].
sontodh folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7c ]
MW_PP bets [$1].
DontFoldEver calls [$1].
** Dealing River ** [ 6s ]
MW_PP bets [$4].
DontFoldEver folds.
MW_PP does not show cards.
MW_PP wins $7.85

fold preflop

Originally Posted by Greedo017

fold preflop

Don't fold preflop. Learn how to play better postflop. I say that in general, not directed at the poster. As played, I like your river laydown. You spent the flop and turn trying to figure out whether he had the 9. The river confirms JQ has a good chance to be behind here. I may have raised the turn, but calling isn't terrible.

I think a lot of tournament advice seeps over into cash game. You don't fold this preflop in cash game if you can get into an unraised multiway pot at a passive table.

Sorry guys, but come on. Figure out when you're dominated after the flop and get away. People are coming in with Q6s at 25NL. You miss out on value by not playing JQ against bad players.

nice hand

What Rondavu said.

I would make this $3 on the turn and hope it's the last bet I put into this pot.

I would have taken control with a raise on the flop. I don't want to be calling off money when I'm not really sure where I stand.

Originally Posted by WildBobAA

I don't want to be calling off money when I'm not really sure where I stand.

why not

i'm not really sure, on second thought, i like throwing money blindly in pots

I raise flop and fold to reraise, then fold to strong turn lead or bet when check'd to.

Its ok to fold preflop too. I think its pretty close.

To answer your question, the laydown is good. You beat nothing but a bluff.

Originally Posted by WildBobAA

i'm not really sure, on second thought, i like throwing money blindly in pots

k thought so

Originally Posted by WildBobAA

I would have taken control with a raise on the flop.

I'd rather raise the turn because a flop raise will often result in a bigger bigger pot and give him only 1 shot at bluffing at the pot, since there is a good chance this missed him horribly.

With a read, this easily could become a routine flop laydown. No need to fight over this nothing pot.

Raising the flop holds no merit with marginal hands that have minimal outs unless you're almost positive the opponent is drawing. There's just not enough fold equity against anyone but a nit.

With a hand like this, you want to take a sharp line to an affordable pressure point if you really feel ahead (or have an excessive fold equity opportunity against a better hand), usually on 4th street. As Fnord stated, raising the flop is only progressively committing yourself on the worst fold equity street.

Typically, I raise the flop to build committment for my opponent when I have them slaughtered, and may play 4th or 5th street shy against certain solid opponents to give them an excuse to look me up with something decent. Against fish I just blast away all day.

Originally Posted by Rondavu

Raising the flop holds no merit with marginal hands that have minimal outs unless you're almost positive the opponent is drawing. There's just not enough fold equity against anyone but a nit.

With a hand like this, you want to take a sharp line to an affordable pressure point if you really feel ahead (or have an excessive fold equity opportunity), usually on 4th street. As Fnord stated, raising the flop is only progressively committing yourself on the worst fold equity street.

Typically, I raise the flop to build committment for my opponent when I have them slaughtered, and may play 4th or 5th street shy against certain solid opponents to give them an excuse to look me up with something decent. Against fish I just blast away all day.

Rondavu, you never post hands. Are you just an academic?

Originally Posted by Renton

Rondavu, you never post hands. Are you just an academic?

I should post more hands. I guess I feel arrogant showcasing hand histories. Maybe I should get over it.

Originally Posted by Rondavu

Originally Posted by Renton

Rondavu, you never post hands. Are you just an academic?

I should post more hands. I guess I feel arrogant showcasing hand histories. Maybe I should get over it.

I didn't mean it as an insult or anything. I just think we have a wealth to learn from you. I need to stop being a nit. I am actively trying to find reasons to play more hands PF but I still can't get my vpip at full ring over 15%. It's killing me.

Originally Posted by Renton

Originally Posted by Rondavu

Originally Posted by Renton

Rondavu, you never post hands. Are you just an academic?

I should post more hands. I guess I feel arrogant showcasing hand histories. Maybe I should get over it.

I didn't mean it as an insult or anything. I just think we have a wealth to learn from you. I need to stop being a nit. I am actively trying to find reasons to play more hands PF but I still can't get my vpip at full ring over 15%. It's killing me.

I can tell you right now I'm playing against the worst players online at "fishypoker" 50-100NL. I'm totally nutcamping my ass off, and it's extremely boring and profitable. I do miss the metagame, but it's just not necessary where I'm playing at the moment.

I wasn't insulted at all. I respect you.

Originally Posted by Rondavu

Originally Posted by Renton

Originally Posted by Rondavu

Originally Posted by Renton

Rondavu, you never post hands. Are you just an academic?

I should post more hands. I guess I feel arrogant showcasing hand histories. Maybe I should get over it.

I didn't mean it as an insult or anything. I just think we have a wealth to learn from you. I need to stop being a nit. I am actively trying to find reasons to play more hands PF but I still can't get my vpip at full ring over 15%. It's killing me.

I can tell you right now I'm playing against the worst players online at "fishypoker" 50-100NL. I'm totally nutcamping my ass off, and it's extremely boring and profitable.

well I am making 150$ an hour massively multitabling the 200nl on party and it seems to be working out. Perhaps I shouldn't change my strategy.

Renton what is your party name, and you play full correct?

Originally Posted by WildBobAA

Renton what is your party name, and you play full correct?

Renton555 and yes. Haven't seen you around tho. WildBobAK right?

Originally Posted by Renton

well I am making 150$ an hour massively multitabling the 200nl on party and it seems to be working out. Perhaps I shouldn't change my strategy.

Do what's profitable and comfortable

I've played with WildBob on Pokerstars Cash game. We took turns destacking people, and never went too deep against one another as I recall.

That's correct. Haven't been on a ton lately and when I play I only 4 table. check your pms

Originally Posted by Renton

Perhaps I shouldn't change my strategy.

do you want to get better at poker, or make $200nl money the rest of your days?

Originally Posted by gabe

Originally Posted by Renton

Perhaps I shouldn't change my strategy.

do you want to get better at poker, or make $200nl money the rest of your days?

I was making a joke. I intend to be running at least an 18/10 game pretty soon at full ring. Right now I am 14.5/8.5.

thread hijacking alert

Originally Posted by WildBobAA

thread hijacking alert

meh we answered the original question

Now the topic is "Why won't the great Rondavu post hands?/Why won't the lesser Renton play more hands?"

fuck off

Originally Posted by gabe

do you want to get better at poker, or make $200nl money the rest of your days?

Hm, if I could make $150/hour consistently, I would not look to change my ring strategies much anymore. I would be mainly looking out for small improvements and especially trying not to let my game slide.. and apart from that, I'd ignore poker, move on to other venues and grind some money on my tried-and-tested strategy every day.

But that's just me

Originally Posted by Renton

Originally Posted by WildBobAA

thread hijacking alert

meh we answered the original question

Now the topic is "Why won't the great Rondavu post hands?/Why won't the lesser Renton play more hands?"

fuck off

Wow, someone doesn't like having their aces cracked.

Originally Posted by jackvance

Originally Posted by gabe

do you want to get better at poker, or make $200nl money the rest of your days?

Hm, if I could make $150/hour consistently, I would not look to change my ring strategies much anymore. I would be mainly looking out for small improvements and especially trying not to let my game slide.. and apart from that, I'd ignore poker, move on to other venues and grind some money on my tried-and-tested strategy every day.

But that's just me

What gabe is saying is that if I don't open up my game then I will run into a wall. At higher stakes than 200nl, I will likely not be winning very much in playing such a tight game.

no worries guys, thanks for the replys,

im used to playing $55 - $109 sngs on party and doyles room, but during that session i was trying to clear a bonus playing low stakes ring games. Making the switch from good players to horrible players can sometimes make me play worse because i never know what to expect

Originally Posted by Renton

What gabe is saying is that if I don't open up my game then I will run into a wall. At higher stakes than 200nl, I will likely not be winning very much in playing such a tight game.

It's tough to open up your game after nutcamping past 100NL. I would suggest you go down to 50NL to experiment with aggression for a few weeks in between 200NL nutsessions. You really have to stick your neck out there to find out where the cleaver comes down.

Originally Posted by jackvance

Originally Posted by gabe

do you want to get better at poker, or make $200nl money the rest of your days?

Hm, if I could make $150/hour consistently, I would not look to change my ring strategies much anymore.

i used to think that. i used to think that if i could just average $1k a month i would be set, but then i started making $1k on the days i played for more than an hour and it changed my outlook on money.

Hey Rondavu--I agree with Renton. You seem to have one of the best analytical poker minds at FTR, but rarely post HHs. I second the motion for you to share your play a little more. Even if it does seem arrogant, it would be helpful to newer players.

Originally Posted by gabe

i used to think that. i used to think that if i could just average $1k a month i would be set, but then i started making $1k on the days i played for more than an hour and it changed my outlook on money.

Yes I realize that the lure of money can become even stronger the better it goes.. but I never started poker to go anywhere with it, it's more of a skill I wanted to obtain to be able to make some money in times that other incomes are rare. There are other venues I want to pursue in life. But ofcourse, yeah, like I get.. should I get there still could all very well change :P

Originally Posted by samsonite2100

Hey Rondavu--I agree with Renton. You seem to have one of the best analytical poker minds at FTR, but rarely post HHs. I second the motion for you to share your play a little more. Even if it does seem arrogant, it would be helpful to newer players.

Thirded.

Jeeze, rename this thread to the Rondavu appreciation thread.

I'll try to post some more hands for you guys. My strength is in building table relationships however, and so I will have to present my take on where the relationships lie when I do post hands. I think as an isolated hand without reads, some of the plays I make will seem absurd. High risk low reward type stuff, but just correct at the time. So be it then.

I do believe most of the hands posted on FTR are absent of tight reads. Most of them are of the "What did I do wrong" variety. Maybe in that regard people can take something from it different than status quo.

The site I'm on at the moment doesn't offer HH ( I don't think), so it won't be right away. I stuck a floating $500 in Neteller to bonus whore with, so I'll probably deposit somewhere with HH and do it that way.

I don't know why I've neglected to contribute in that way. I guess I just like responding more.

Jeeze, rename this thread to the Rondavu appreciation thread.

Rondavu, you're a genius. Also, that picture of Snoop makes me very happy.

I can name a few geniuses...

Ilikeaces
Fnord
Chardrian
Michael
Gabe
Ultimate George
Like 20 others

You know, since we're spreading the love butter around. I can't believe I just said love butter.

Originally Posted by Rondavu

I'll try to post some more hands for you guys. My strength is in building table relationships however, and so I will have to present my take on where the relationships lie when I do post hands. I think as an isolated hand without reads, some of the plays I make will seem absurd.

these hands are the most fun. and you probably don't post them for the same reason that i don't show them to the people i talk poker with much. they take too much explaining although they make such perfect sense at the time.