Did he just suck out on me?

PokerStars Game #4274472765: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2006/03/13 - 13:18:15 (ET)
Table 'Zachia' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: FiveSXSuited ($51.10 in chips)
Seat 2: Pelion ($24.15 in chips)
Seat 3: tastafon ($18.65 in chips)
Seat 4: LUV2RUN26&1 ($11.70 in chips)
Seat 5: chas2148 ($10.90 in chips)
Seat 6: mezigue ($7.25 in chips)
Seat 7: Folmersen ($24.10 in chips)
Seat 8: CrazySac ($28.45 in chips)
Seat 9: Frogholler ($21.50 in chips)
tastafon: posts small blind $0.10
LUV2RUN26&1: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Pelion [As Kh]
chas2148: folds
mezigue: folds
Folmersen: folds
CrazySac: calls $0.25
Frogholler: folds
FiveSXSuited: folds
Pelion: raises $0.75 to $1
tastafon: calls $0.90
LUV2RUN26&1: folds
CrazySac: calls $0.75
*** FLOP *** [Qc 8h Jd]
tastafon: checks
CrazySac: checks
Pelion: bets $2.50
tastafon: folds
CrazySac: calls $2.50
*** TURN *** [Qc 8h Jd] [Td]
CrazySac: checks
Pelion: bets $4
CrazySac: calls $4
*** RIVER *** [Qc 8h Jd Td] [Qs]
CrazySac: bets $7

With the weaker turn bet that you made I wouldnt lay this down. Too many players try to push you off with their AQ or KQ here. I call with a strong hand like this.

PK

His bet doesn't make sense for a boat i think, he'd probably push a lot or bet small and hope for a raise.

This is going to sound slightly reckless, but I push all in here all day long. A set or two pair doesn't play the hand out this way. He has trip Q's almost every time, and will call a push. I think it's +EV to do so. Caution is overrated.

i think you call his bet on this hand. Knowing the level (or lack thereof) of skill at the 10nl; he is probably on a set. His flop call and turn check tell me that he has hit a pair he is slow playing a made hand. As for what, I am not sure. However, as mentioned, you call is +EV overall. I call all day.

Yeah just call-with a one card straight available AQ or worse would be pretty silly to call a push. If this guy is loose a push would probably be +EV because there is a highly increased chance he holds a 9 in his hand.

Originally Posted by Rondavu

I push all in here all day long.

Twice on Sunday.

This is trips a lot and there isn't much money behind.

I call here.

villain has two pair or trips enough for this to be profitable. As far as pushing all in, I guess I just don't have the stones. There there are much bigger edges to be pushed, and I play enough tables to let marginal edges like this one go for minimum value.

Originally Posted by Renton

I play enough tables to let marginal edges like this one go for minimum value.

Poisonous line of thought. Poker is all about pushing edges, the great players don't let any pass. This ain't silly CIM tourney poker, if you have the best of it, put it in the middle!

Originally Posted by Renton

I call here.

villain has two pair or trips enough for this to be profitable. As far as pushing all in, I guess I just don't have the stones. There there are much bigger edges to be pushed, and I play enough tables to let marginal edges like this one go for minimum value.

Every time you miss out on a marginal edge, it takes away from your bottom line. I have a friend who plays this way. He's afraid of every possibility. I hear him say stuff like "He could have a set", when he was holding top two pair to the villains top pair top kicker. He thinks a solid player is defined by not putting money in when you're behind. This is a fundamentally flawed way of thinking.

Your mind should be on specific hands, not specific possibilities. Play against your reads. Trust them and extract value. Sometimes you'll get your ass handed to you. Most of the time you bleed the orange dry.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Originally Posted by Rondavu

I push all in here all day long.

Twice on Sunday.

This is trips a lot and there isn't much money behind.

This does look like trips, but realistically what Qx's is the hero ahead of here? Villain called a small raise in the BB, so maybe as low as Q9? The board is filled with middle cards making Q8, QT, QJ a boat, so we're only ahead of Q9 (which makes a straight on the turn that I doubt the villain would check-call), QK and AQ.

I think I'd just find a call here.

Definitely an easy call and I think an easy all in. After the call, the question is do you raise all in. After the call I think you probably have about 8 bux left and being that I put him on the boat less than 50% of the time, throw in the 8 bux and make the extra 8 bux. You simply must push these edges. You will lose the extra 8 bux sometimes, but you will gain it more.

I just called. He turned over QQ.

I said "nice" and won it all back and more over the course of the next hour.

Its nice now I dont tend to tilt from stuff like this.

That allin line seems very brave. Do you really think you are ahead (and he calls) often enough to make that +EV? Seems to me that most of the Q's he could hold have made a FH there.

Ya, I definitely think that pushing is a +ev play. At this level, I wouldnt put someone on anything in particular. He could easily have AQ, KQ, or 99 for that matter. I dont think just calling is a bad move here, but in this circumstance I'd push, especially at this level. At much higher levels and depending on the player, I would reassess.

Originally Posted by Pelion

Do you really think you are ahead (and he calls) often enough to make that +EV? Seems to me that most of the Q's he could hold have made a FH there.

The two most likely hands with a queen in them are AQ and QK. I'm sure they far outweigh the times someone has boated Qx on this board.

I don't hate a call, I don't hate a push. But the two members I hold in the highest regard on this board both said push.