did i fook up?

1. would you play it this way?
2. do i get called by enough hands i beat?
3. should i just quit whining and get over it?
4.how does the absence of draws change your pushing?


dealt KK on semi loose passive 10cent table. Not much raising preflop and if its 40 cents raise they tend to fold.

utg raises to 55cents, fold , fold

I raise to $1.50, everyone folds, he calls.

flop is Q73 rainbow.

he checks I bet $2, he raises to $4, I shove allin for total of $15 and he has me covered.

Good/Bad/Ugly?

[x] 10nl
[x] overpair
[x] all you can eat baby

I'm all-in here, every time, unless I have an AMAZING read (like 1000 hands showing 5/2 nit). And even then I'm probably all-in.

Okay, so you stack off to AA and sets. But over time this is a winning play at NL10, where villain could have AQ, KQ, JJ (heck, every pp down to 88, I've seen THIS WEEK) or even KJs.

One thing I'll mention that sucks at NL10 - min reraise. Often, this is a sign of HUGE strength from an inexperienced player. Nearly as often, its a junk bet with a medium hand. Again, I'd have to have an extensive read on the player making the min-rr before I'd let it factor into my decision.

I like your line as played. I think it is +EV at NL10. If NL10 ever gets so TAGG that this is a losing play in general, I think I'll give up poker and take up quilting.

Originally Posted by Robb

I'm all-in here, every time, unless I have an AMAZING read (like 1000 hands showing 5/2 nit). And even then I'm probably all-in.

Okay, so you stack off to AA and sets. But over time this is a winning play at NL10, where villain could have AQ, KQ, JJ (heck, every pp down to 88, I've seen THIS WEEK) or even KJs.

One thing I'll mention that sucks at NL10 - min reraise. Often, this is a sign of HUGE strength from an inexperienced player. Nearly as often, its a junk bet with a medium hand. Again, I'd have to have an extensive read on the player making the min-rr before I'd let it factor into my decision.

I like your line as played. I think it is +EV at NL10. If NL10 ever gets so TAGG that this is a losing play in general, I think I'll give up poker and take up quilting.

What he said.

I also f'n HATE the minraise for its ambiguity. PT needs to start a new stat: average bet size (in % of pot), also some sorta stat that takes into account hand strength vs bet size would be nice

Originally Posted by d0zer

Originally Posted by Robb

I'm all-in here, every time, unless I have an AMAZING read (like 1000 hands showing 5/2 nit). And even then I'm probably all-in.

Okay, so you stack off to AA and sets. But over time this is a winning play at NL10, where villain could have AQ, KQ, JJ (heck, every pp down to 88, I've seen THIS WEEK) or even KJs.

One thing I'll mention that sucks at NL10 - min reraise. Often, this is a sign of HUGE strength from an inexperienced player. Nearly as often, its a junk bet with a medium hand. Again, I'd have to have an extensive read on the player making the min-rr before I'd let it factor into my decision.

I like your line as played. I think it is +EV at NL10. If NL10 ever gets so TAGG that this is a losing play in general, I think I'll give up poker and take up quilting.

What he said.

I also f'n HATE the minraise for its ambiguity. PT needs to start a new stat: average bet size (in % of pot), also some sorta stat that takes into account hand strength vs bet size would be nice

What he said. I know Pat's working on PT3 - has anyone suggested this stat to him for the update?

Originally Posted by Robb

I'm all-in here, every time, unless I have an AMAZING read (like 1000 hands showing 5/2 nit). And even then I'm probably all-in.

Okay, so you stack off to AA and sets. But over time this is a winning play at NL10, where villain could have AQ, KQ, JJ (heck, every pp down to 88, I've seen THIS WEEK) or even KJs.

One thing I'll mention that sucks at NL10 - min reraise. Often, this is a sign of HUGE strength from an inexperienced player. Nearly as often, its a junk bet with a medium hand. Again, I'd have to have an extensive read on the player making the min-rr before I'd let it factor into my decision.

I like your line as played. I think it is +EV at NL10. If NL10 ever gets so TAGG that this is a losing play in general, I think I'll give up poker and take up quilting.

{Acronym renton hates}

cool thx guys. obviously he had a sick hand - QQ.

Would no-one consider just calling here on the flop? Then we can push the turn unless a) it's an ace, b) he pushes first, when we fold.

Change in EV compared with pushing on the flop:
1) Is + if he is ahead and pushes (quite likely if he is ahead?)
2) Is - if he is behind and pushes (quite unlikely, maybe AQ?)
3) If - if the turn is an ace (4/45)
4) Is -if he draws out us on the turn (at most 3/45?)
5) Is + if he is behind, was going to fold to our flop push, but bets on the turn (quite likely)

Am I way wrong here?

would you have even posted this hand if he had AQ?

youre 3bet is entirely too small.

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

would you have even posted this hand if he had AQ?

youre 3bet is entirely too small.

I disagree. Hero bet half the pot on the turn, and at NL10 I think it's fine. Hero's most likely to be up against JJ, TT or a broadway w/ Q. I've seen villains play this line with KQ often and QJ and even QT at times. I think villain's range is wide enough here that we're trying to build a pot the majority of the time, not take it down. Just my opinion. Maybe a compromise of 2/3 or 3/4 of the pot is appropriate since the hand's vulnerable to an Ace on the river. But it's fine as played, imo.

Caveat, spenda's a MUCH better player than me, so he's probably right in general. I've played 3k NL10 hands in the last 48 hours. From what I've seen, this line is very likely to help build a pot when hero's ahead. And like I said, I don't think he's behind enough for a larger bet to be needed here. Besides, what hands that are ahead might fold to pot-sized raise? AA and any set are calling/raising either way. So I don't see the same problem spenda does here, and I think lots of inferior hands that might call half the pot from way behind would fold to the bigger raise.

I don't know anything about Robin's typical playing levels, but I HATE giving a free card on any street in NL10. As soon as I check, I'm pretty much ready to fold to any reasonable bet. There are WAY too many flush chasers, straight chasers and top-pair-no-kicker fishcakes to let anyone have a free card here. Again, not saying it's true in general, for higher levels Robin's line may work. Here, I think it's death. I think betting at least half the pot is a MUST on every street if you think you have the better hand.

Here's my experience with giving free cards. When villain hits his 3-outer, I tilt, calling myself every permutation of "expletive dumbass" I know, and I then play badly for few hands while I reload and regroup. I almost never do it any more.

yeah, pretty sick. Well played

yeah, pretty sick. Well played