A Few Hands For Analysis Please

Hi,

Here are the major hands from my losing session last night. This table had too many calling stations (if that's possible), it was impossible to get anything heads up pre-flop:

Game #1 - (blinds $0.05/$0.10) No Limit Texas Hold'em - 2005/05/17-21:59:56.0 (CST)
Table "Baltra" (real money) -- Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: sparks7 ($16.10 in chips)
Seat 2: dtrouble ($2.95 in chips)
Seat 3: Mr.Henry ($4.35 in chips)
Seat 4: goeck84 ($8.88 in chips)
Seat 5: Ttocs ($9.80 in chips)
Seat 6: jo-nyc99 ($9.40 in chips)
Seat 7: JOHN55555 ($2.40 in chips)
Seat 8: nottakenname ($9.20 in chips)
Seat 9: clamdigger07 ($5.75 in chips)
Seat 10: SexySuited ($3.57 in chips)
dtrouble: Post Small Blind ($0.05)
Mr.Henry: Post Big Blind ($0.10)
SexySuited: Post ($0.10)
Dealing...
Dealt to nottakenname [ Jd ]
Dealt to nottakenname [ Ad ]
goeck84 : Fold
Ttocs : Fold
jo-nyc99: Fold
JOHN55555: Fold
nottakenname: Raise ($0.50)
clamdigger07: Call ($0.50)
SexySuited: Fold
sparks7 : Fold
dtrouble: Fold
Mr.Henry: Fold
*** FLOP *** : [ 2h Td Jh ]
nottakenname: Bet ($1.20)
clamdigger07: Call ($1.20)
*** TURN *** : [ 2h Td Jh ] [ 6s ]
nottakenname: Bet ($4.05)
clamdigger07: Call All-in ($4.05)
*** RIVER *** : [ 2h Td Jh 6s ] [ Qh ]
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $11.20 | Rake: $0.55
Board: [ 2h Td Jh 6s Qh ]
sparks7 didn't bet (folded)
dtrouble lost $0.05 (folded)
Mr.Henry lost $0.10 (folded)
goeck84 didn't bet (folded)
Ttocs didn't bet (folded)
jo-nyc99 didn't bet (folded)
JOHN55555 didn't bet (folded)
nottakenname lost $5.75 (showed hand) [ Jd Ad ] (a pair of jacks)
clamdigger07 bet $5.75, collected $11.20, net +$5.45 (showed hand) [ 9h 8d ] (a straight, eight to queen)
SexySuited lost $0.10 (folded)
-----------------------------------------------------
Game #2 - (blinds $0.05/$0.10) No Limit Texas Hold'em - 2005/05/17-22:26:34.7 (CST)
Table "Baltra" (real money) -- Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: kitnaholic ($9.70 in chips)
Seat 2: ZLOOW ($9.90 in chips)
Seat 3: Mr.Henry ($3.80 in chips)
Seat 4: squeegy ($10.90 in chips)
Seat 5: Goodkid7 ($8.85 in chips)
Seat 6: jo-nyc99 ($7.40 in chips)
Seat 7: JOHN55555 ($2.65 in chips)
Seat 8: nottakenname ($7.80 in chips)
Seat 9: clamdigger07 ($17.11 in chips)
Seat 10: eagle4 ($3.60 in chips)
ZLOOW : Post Small Blind ($0.05)
Mr.Henry: Post Big Blind ($0.10)
Dealing...
Dealt to nottakenname [ Kh ]
Dealt to nottakenname [ Js ]
squeegy : Call ($0.10)
Goodkid7: Call ($0.10)
jo-nyc99: Call ($0.10)
JOHN55555: Call ($0.10)
nottakenname: Raise ($0.75)
clamdigger07: Call ($0.75)
eagle4 : Fold
kitnaholic: Fold
ZLOOW : Fold
Mr.Henry: Fold
squeegy : Call ($0.65)
Goodkid7: Fold
jo-nyc99: Call ($0.65)
JOHN55555: Call ($0.65)
*** FLOP *** : [ 3d 8s 9d ]
squeegy : Check
jo-nyc99: Check
JOHN55555: Check
nottakenname: Bet ($1.50)
clamdigger07: Fold
squeegy : Fold
jo-nyc99: Call ($1.50)
JOHN55555: Fold
*** TURN *** : [ 3d 8s 9d ] [ 4h ]
jo-nyc99: Bet ($0.55)
nottakenname: Raise ($5.55)
jo-nyc99: Fold
nottakenname: Winner -- doesn't show cards
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $7.75 | Rake: $0.35
Board: [ 3d 8s 9d 4h ]
kitnaholic didn't bet (folded)
ZLOOW lost $0.05 (folded)
Mr.Henry lost $0.10 (folded)
squeegy lost $0.75 (folded)
Goodkid7 lost $0.10 (folded)
jo-nyc99 lost $2.80 (folded)
JOHN55555 lost $0.75 (folded)
nottakenname bet $7.80, collected $12.75, net +$4.95 [ Kh Js ] (high card king)
clamdigger07 lost $0.75 (folded)
eagle4 didn't bet (folded)
-----------------------------------------------------
Game #3 - (blinds $0.05/$0.10) No Limit Texas Hold'em - 2005/05/17-22:30:10.3 (CST)
Table "Baltra" (real money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Seat 1: kitnaholic ($9.70 in chips)
Seat 2: ZLOOW ($9.85 in chips)
Seat 3: Mr.Henry ($3.30 in chips)
Seat 4: squeegy ($6.55 in chips)
Seat 5: Goodkid7 ($8.65 in chips)
Seat 6: jo-nyc99 ($4.60 in chips)
Seat 7: JOHN55555 ($1.80 in chips)
Seat 8: nottakenname ($12.75 in chips)
Seat 9: clamdigger07 ($16.26 in chips)
Seat 10: eagle4 ($7.55 in chips)
squeegy : Post Small Blind ($0.05)
nottakenname said, "hey kitna, what part of Winnipeg you from?"
Goodkid7: Post Big Blind ($0.10)
Dealing...
Dealt to nottakenname [ Jc ]
Dealt to nottakenname [ Ac ]
jo-nyc99: Fold
JOHN55555: Call ($0.10)
nottakenname: Raise ($0.50)
clamdigger07: Call ($0.50)
eagle4 : Call ($0.50)
kitnaholic: Call ($0.50)
ZLOOW : Fold
Mr.Henry: Fold
squeegy : Fold
Goodkid7: Call ($0.40)
kitnaholic said, "amber trails"
kitnaholic said, "you?"
JOHN55555: Fold
*** FLOP *** : [ Ah 6s 5h ]
Goodkid7: Check
nottakenname: Bet ($2)
clamdigger07: Fold
nottakenname said, "fort garry, where is amber trails?"
eagle4 : Call ($2)
kitnaholic: Fold
Goodkid7: Fold
*** TURN *** : [ Ah 6s 5h ] [ Ks ]
nottakenname: Bet ($5.05)
kitnaholic said, "near maples and garden city"
eagle4 : Call All-in ($5.05)
*** RIVER *** : [ Ah 6s 5h Ks ] [ 8h ]
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $15.95 | Rake: $0.80
Board: [ Ah 6s 5h Ks 8h ]
kitnaholic lost $0.50 (folded)
ZLOOW didn't bet (folded)
Mr.Henry didn't bet (folded)
squeegy lost $0.05 (folded)
Goodkid7 lost $0.50 (folded)
jo-nyc99 didn't bet (folded)
JOHN55555 lost $0.10 (folded)
nottakenname bet $7.55, collected $15.95, net +$8.40 (showed hand) [ Jc Ac ] (a pair of aces)
clamdigger07 lost $0.50 (folded)
eagle4 lost $7.55 (showed hand) [ 8d 7d ] (a pair of eights)
-----------------------------------------------------
Game #4 - (blinds $0.05/$0.10) No Limit Texas Hold'em - 2005/05/17-22:37:44.4 (CST)
Table "Baltra" (real money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Seat 1: kitnaholic ($9.20 in chips)
Seat 2: ZLOOW ($10.35 in chips)
Seat 3: Mr.Henry ($3.10 in chips)
Seat 4: squeegy ($0.00 in chips)
Seat 5: Goodkid7 ($15.95 in chips)
Seat 6: MSauce ($2.00 in chips)
Seat 7: JOHN55555 ($1.60 in chips)
Seat 8: nottakenname ($21.00 in chips)
Seat 9: clamdigger07 ($17.86 in chips)
Seat 10: scary_gary ($10.00 in chips)
clamdigger07: Post Small Blind ($0.05)
scary_gary: Sit out
kitnaholic: Post Big Blind ($0.10)
MSauce : Post ($0.10)
Dealing...
Dealt to nottakenname [ Th ]
Dealt to nottakenname [ As ]
squeegy said, "ouch"
ZLOOW : Fold
Mr.Henry: Call ($0.10)
Goodkid7: Call ($0.10)
MSauce : Check
JOHN55555: Call ($0.10)
nottakenname: Raise ($1)
clamdigger07: Call ($0.95)
kitnaholic: Fold
Mr.Henry: Fold
Goodkid7: Call ($0.90)
MSauce : Call ($0.90)
JOHN55555: Call ($0.90)
*** FLOP *** : [ Qd 8h 2h ]
clamdigger07: Check
Goodkid7: Bet ($5)
kitnaholic said, "you've never played anywhere else?"
MSauce : Call All-in ($1)
nottakenname said, "just my basement"
JOHN55555: Call All-in ($0.60)
nottakenname: Fold
nottakenname said, "and other friends' houses"
clamdigger07: Fold
*** TURN *** : [ Qd 8h 2h ] [ Jc ]
*** RIVER *** : [ Qd 8h 2h Jc ] [ 6d ]
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $6.65 | Side pot 1: $0.80 | Rake: $0.35
Board: [ Qd 8h 2h Jc 6d ]
kitnaholic lost $0.10 (folded)
ZLOOW didn't bet (folded)
Mr.Henry lost $0.10 (folded)
squeegy didn't bet
Goodkid7 bet $6, collected $8.13, net +$2.13 (showed hand) [ Ah Qc ] (a pair of queens)
MSauce lost $2 (showed hand) [ 3h 3d ] (a pair of threes)
JOHN55555 bet $1.60, collected $3.32, net +$1.72 (showed hand) [ Qs Ac ] (a pair of queens)
nottakenname lost $1 (folded) [ Th As ] (high card ace)
clamdigger07 lost $1 (folded)
scary_gary didn't bet
-----------------------------------------------------
Game #5 - (blinds $0.05/$0.10) No Limit Texas Hold'em - 2005/05/17-22:48:21.6 (CST)
Table "Baltra" (real money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Seat 1: kitnaholic ($10.35 in chips)
Seat 2: ZLOOW ($7.50 in chips)
Seat 3: Mr.Henry ($6.05 in chips)
Seat 4: squeegy ($8.78 in chips)
Seat 5: Goodkid7 ($22.03 in chips)
Seat 6: pelican1 ($5.65 in chips)
Seat 7: JOHN55555 ($5.49 in chips)
Seat 8: nottakenname ($20.00 in chips)
Seat 9: Druidfire ($10.00 in chips)
Seat 10: 6991ojojj ($6.90 in chips)
JOHN55555: Post Small Blind ($0.05)
nottakenname: Post Big Blind ($0.10)
Druidfire: Post ($0.10)
Dealing...
Dealt to nottakenname [ Tc ]
Dealt to nottakenname [ Th ]
Druidfire: Check
6991ojojj: Call ($0.10)
kitnaholic: Call ($0.10)
ZLOOW : Fold
Mr.Henry: Fold
squeegy : Call ($0.10)
Goodkid7: Call ($0.10)
pelican1: Fold
JOHN55555: Call ($0.05)
nottakenname: Raise ($1)
Druidfire: Fold
6991ojojj: Fold
kitnaholic: Fold
squeegy : Call ($1)
Goodkid7: Fold
JOHN55555: Call ($1)
*** FLOP *** : [ 2h 4h Kd ]
JOHN55555: Check
nottakenname: Bet ($2)
squeegy : Raise ($4)
JOHN55555: Fold
nottakenname: Raise ($16.90)
squeegy : Call All-in ($3.68)
*** TURN *** : [ 2h 4h Kd ] [ 5s ]
*** RIVER *** : [ 2h 4h Kd 5s ] [ 5c ]
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $18.16 | Rake: $0.90
Board: [ 2h 4h Kd 5s 5c ]
kitnaholic lost $0.10 (folded)
ZLOOW didn't bet (folded)
Mr.Henry didn't bet (folded)
squeegy bet $8.78, collected $18.16, net +$9.38 (showed hand) [ 9c Kc ] (two pair, kings and fives)
Goodkid7 lost $0.10 (folded)
pelican1 didn't bet (folded)
JOHN55555 lost $1.10 (folded)
nottakenname bet $20, collected $11.22, net -$8.78 (showed hand) [ Tc Th ] (two pair, tens and fives)
Druidfire lost $0.10 (folded)
6991ojojj lost $0.10 (folded)
-----------------------------------------------------
Game #6 - (blinds $0.05/$0.10) No Limit Texas Hold'em - 2005/05/17-22:52:22.9 (CST)
Table "Baltra" (real money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Seat 1: kitnaholic ($10.25 in chips)
Seat 2: ZLOOW ($7.40 in chips)
Seat 3: Mr.Henry ($5.95 in chips)
Seat 4: squeegy ($18.06 in chips)
Seat 5: Goodkid7 ($24.93 in chips)
Seat 6: pelican1 ($10.00 in chips)
Seat 7: JOHN55555 ($4.39 in chips)
Seat 8: nottakenname ($11.17 in chips)
Seat 9: Druidfire ($9.80 in chips)
Seat 10: 6991ojojj ($3.95 in chips)
Druidfire: Post Small Blind ($0.05)
6991ojojj: Post Big Blind ($0.10)
Dealing...
Dealt to nottakenname [ Ts ]
Dealt to nottakenname [ As ]
kitnaholic: Fold
ZLOOW : Fold
Mr.Henry: Call ($0.10)
squeegy : Raise ($0.25)
Goodkid7: Fold
pelican1: Fold
JOHN55555: Fold
nottakenname: Raise ($0.50)
Druidfire: Fold
6991ojojj: Fold
Mr.Henry: Fold
squeegy : Call ($0.25)
*** FLOP *** : [ 2h Th 2c ]
squeegy : Check
nottakenname: Bet ($1)
squeegy : Raise ($2)
nottakenname: Raise ($5)
squeegy : Raise ($15.56)
nottakenname: Call All-in ($4.67)
*** TURN *** : [ 2h Th 2c ] [ Jh ]
*** RIVER *** : [ 2h Th 2c Jh ] [ Js ]
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $21.49 | Rake: $1.10
Board: [ 2h Th 2c Jh Js ]
kitnaholic didn't bet (folded)
ZLOOW didn't bet (folded)
Mr.Henry lost $0.10 (folded)
squeegy bet $18.06, collected $28.38, net +$10.32 (showed hand) [ 2s Ad ] (a full house, twos full of jacks)
Goodkid7 didn't bet (folded)
pelican1 didn't bet (folded)
JOHN55555 didn't bet (folded)
nottakenname lost $11.17 (showed hand) [ Ts As ] (two pair, jacks and tens)
Druidfire lost $0.05 (folded)
6991ojojj lost $0.10 (folded)
-----------------------------------------------------

Hand #1: you did get heads up, good (especially with AJ - not a power hand in a multi-way pot). He made bad calls with a so-so draw and sucked out on you. Well-played by you.

Hand #2: I wouldn't bother raising this hand if they're all calling most of the raises anyway. It's a mediocre hand at best and won't play well in a big field. Then 4 see the flop and you bet out with just overcards... a bit risky. It went alright for you but overall I'd say this is a hand where you'll be lucky to break even in the long run. I like to save continuation bets for hands with two or three players (including me) in them. In this kind of hand someone will call you, and probably be ahead of you.

Hand #3: Modest raise with JA (again) from early position - don't bother unless you just want to juice the pot. It's suited so I'd probably limp in. You won't isolate on anybody in this kind of game. Basically if you limp in you want the flush or two pair; play it like a drawing hand. You got a decent top pair here on a non-threatening board; unsurprisingly you were called all-in by a draw. Unlike hand #1 he didn't hit, and you won. Good hand. I'm not crazy about the pre-flop raise but I like the results.

Hand #4: better raise, but everyone's calling anyway. This is a good point at which to take the hint and stop raising marginal hands like AJ and AT. Limp or fold. You don't want to be in a 5 way pot with AT trying to bet people out, or with a mediocre top pair like tens.

Hand #5: I like the raise here better, it's still a strong raise but you have a made hand, plus if the set hits you can take down a very juicy pot. You're not trying to make people fold here but basically just juicing the pot. Your post-flop play is not great. I would fold to his first raise (calling stations only raise with a good hand - you think he DOESN'T have that king?). Although he is short-stacked - it's hard to fold knowing he can only put in an extra $4. Personally I think you should let this one go.

Hand #6: Kind of a tough beat. It's hard to put him on a 2 when he raised and then called a re-raise. However it's worth considering that a pair of tens is not worth getting broke over. He could have an overpair, easily... ask yourself, what hand would he play that way? Any overpair (you lose); AT (split pot); any 2 (you lose); tens full of twos (you REALLY lose); maybe AK if he's aggressive and stupid. Your best-case scenario is that he's a moron with AK, and second best is a pot split. After that he's probably got you crushed. Again, even though it looks like a good flop for your hand, you have to be sensitive to his aggression.

Oh, and a general note: at tables like this you have to focus less on good hands and more on drawing hands. Suited connectors, suited gapped cards, small pocket pairs, and even unsuited connectors and gapped cards in late position. Straights, flushes, and sets will win more hands in a game like this, and they will take down big, juicy pots because everyone is playing. Stuff like AJ and AT suited is fine in late position in a tight game, but in a game like this those hands are borderline trash. You're not going to make money raising these hands & playing for top pair, in that kind of game. At those limits I'd rather play JT suited than AT suited.

Thanks for the feedback, that was great and everything you said makes total sense to me. I'm pretty new, and I can say that this was the first time that I had come across a table this loose. Normally, a $0.50 raise gets me down to heads up, but everyone was calling last night.

I don't have enough experience to play properly in different situations yet, so I'm glad I got away with only a small loss. I'll pay more attention to the table texture next time and change my strategy accordingly. You're right, I should have taken the hint that no one was folding and that I needed to stop raising marginal hands pre-flop.

Apprantly, if 9 people want to see a flop, I need to look for better drawing hands because they are easier to get away from if I miss.

Also, I don't think I have ever been in situation where gappers are something to look for. There aren't too many hand histories (that I have seen) that focus on the super loose table strategy. I guess because of that, I was at a disadvantage in this game.

Originally Posted by khabbi

Also, I don't think I have ever been in situation where gappers are something to look for. There aren't too many hand histories (that I have seen) that focus on the super loose table strategy. I guess because of that, I was at a disadvantage in this game.

It's one of the hardest things to get used to... but once you figure it out, those tables can be VERY profitable. I played a recent home game that was like this. Here's a summary of all my wins in a 3 hour span:

- very first hand, pocket kings; I re-raised the initial raiser all-in and took his stack (he was raising & calling me with A5 suited)

- limped from the button with T9o; saw a flop with five other players of 67x, and it checked around; turned the 8, and made a huge pot by just straight-forwardly betting (but not overbetting) the nuts

- limped in from middle position with JQ suited; flopped 89T rainbow and nuked the table who were calling all around with middle pairs and crap like that

- limped from late position with 46 suited, flopped a gutshot + flush draw and bet it like a made hand (to juice the pot up)... eventually made my straight and took down a huge pot

That's about it. There might have been one or two other minor victories. The rest of the time I was folding bad hands (your king-tens, ace-nines, etc.) or limping/folding hands similar to the ones above.

If I was going to rather pretentiously propose a good starting hand list for a loose game, it would go like this:

level 1 (raise from any position): AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AKs, AKo
level 2 (limp from any position): KQs, KQo, QJs, KJs, QJo, JTs, QTs, T9s, 98s, any pocket pair
level 3 (limp from middle position or later): 87s, 76s, J9s, T8s
level 4 (limp from late position only): 65s, 54s, 97s, 86s, 75s, 64s, JTo, KJo, QTo, T9o, 98o, 87o

Also with pretty much any of those limping hands you can call a modest raise (depending on your stack & the raiser's stack, up to 3xBB). This is partly due to the implied odds of going after a monster hand, but also due to the number of calling stations that will get in the hand no matter what and makes every pot a big, juicy meatball. The key element to these games is to still play somewhat tighter than the table - don't play T5o and crap like that even in late position - but play your suited connectors and gappers as often as possible when it's cheap, and try to go after your good draws while folding your bad ones. Calling stations stay in with gutshots and backdoor draws; you want to still calculate good pot odds and play a better version of the game they're playing. And because of the way they play, they will pay you off every time.

[quote="dalecooper"]

Originally Posted by khabbi

Also, I don't think I have ever been in situation where gappers are something to look for. There aren't too many hand histories (that I have seen) that focus on the super loose table strategy. I guess because of that, I was at a disadvantage in this game.

It's one of the hardest things to get used to... but once you figure it out, those tables can be VERY profitable. quote]

Totally agree about suited connectors and 1-gappers in these games (I love 57s and 79s). 1-gappers REALLY pay off when you hit a str8 because no one ever sees it coming, particularly after a small raise. If you get someone on, TPTK, 2-pair, or trips, you can often push AI and get a call, cause they don't see or believe it.

Now, I'm a TAggy limit player, so I sometimes fight a twinge of guilt playing this loose. But, the implied odds can get it back for you big-time.