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good laydown or did I screw the pooch?

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  1. #1

    Default good laydown or did I screw the pooch?

    I felt table was very tight and I was stealing blinds on a regular
    basis. Had a read on Zadan as a tight player and put him on a
    set after the flop:

    PokerStars Game #1809219228: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2005/06/01 -
    01:53:20 (ET)
    Table 'Garumna' Seat #2 is the button
    Seat 1: RVDBU ($55.45 in chips)
    Seat 2: sixxxpac ($100.50 in chips)
    Seat 3: Zadan ($90.50 in chips)
    Seat 4: vxzvxz ($18.50 in chips)
    Seat 5: KoalaSlim ($149.60 in chips)
    Seat 6: Big Nick 69 ($116.40 in chips)
    Seat 7: DimitriT ($64.45 in chips)
    Seat 8: reddevilr1 ($35.85 in chips)
    Seat 9: jth1010 ($100.60 in chips)
    Zadan: posts small blind $0.50
    vxzvxz: posts big blind $1
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to DimitriT [As Ad]
    KoalaSlim: folds
    Big Nick 69: calls $1
    DimitriT: raises $2 to $3
    reddevilr1: calls $3
    jth1010: folds
    RVDBU: folds
    sixxxpac: folds
    Zadan: calls $2.50
    vxzvxz: calls $2
    Big Nick 69: calls $2
    *** FLOP *** [3d 6s 8d]
    Zadan: bets $7
    vxzvxz: folds
    Big Nick 69: calls $7
    DimitriT: calls $7
    reddevilr1: folds
    *** TURN *** [3d 6s 8d] [6c]
    Zadan: bets $10
    Big Nick 69: folds
    DimitriT: folds
    Zadan collected $34.25 from pot
    Zadan: doesn't show hand
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot $36 | Rake $1.75
    Board [3d 6s 8d 6c]
    Seat 1: RVDBU folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: sixxxpac (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: Zadan (small blind) collected ($34.25)
    Seat 4: vxzvxz (big blind) folded on the Flop
    Seat 5: KoalaSlim folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: Big Nick 69 folded on the Turn
    Seat 7: DimitriT folded on the Turn
    Seat 8: reddevilr1 folded on the Flop
    Seat 9: jth1010 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
  2. #2
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    himself fucker.
    Raise to 4 preflop as a minimum.

    There is a really easy way to find out if he has a set on the flop. Raise it to 18 ish bucks. Expensive and ballsy, yes. But it'll clear a lot of doubt.

    I don't really like the fold unless he's a straight forward player. I could see an opp getting aggro with a middle pocket pair. I'd really need to know more about the op and how he bets big/small hands.

    -'rilla
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png target=_blank>http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png</a>
  3. #3
    Yes, I need to raise to 4 or 5. That's my usual approach but in this case I thought I had a read on a tight table and wanted to get value. I didn't expect 4 hands to call but I did expect 2.

    The call on the flop was a dumb mistake. I should have folded right
    there based on my read. I was definitely dating my hand at that point.
  4. #4
    It doesn't really look to me like he has a set. Few players bet right out like that with a set. I would guess he has something like pocket tens.
  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    couldn't any over pair like 99-kk play this the exact same way?

    Would be hard for me to lay down AA on this hand. Seems like he is just value betting his over pair, mabey just over cards even?

    When that 2nd 6 hit was a little scarry, sure he might have made his set, but the $7 on the flop doesn't say 6 with an over card... Mabey he hit a dif set on the flop though 3's or 8's then the 6 just filled him up...

    Either way could have avoided the confusion with a bigger raise PF, then raise on the flop. If he comes back hard on the flop he probably has a set already, then on the turn u know he just hit his boat/4kind.

    Heck he might have just had over cards and wanted to take a stab at bluffing ppl off the pot due to all the low cards.

    But My guess is either Over pair most likely lower than QQ or KK(no PF re-raise) or mabey depending how loose a player 8 with an Ace, or just 2 overs like AKs and is chasing the nut flush draw.

    Based on the way you played this hand he likely put you on 2 over cards. Making it that much easier for him to make that play and I bet after you folded he patted himself on the back for making a great read...
  6. #6
    Raise the flop. Find out how strong he is. Chris was right. When you called $7 he put you on KQ or AK. He might have had K8 or A8 for all you know.

    You didn't have enough information to determine the presence of a set. People don't give you credit for high pocket pair unless you let them know about it on the flop. You played this hand wrong.

    The guy bet 7 because he was protecting a vulnerable TP or overpair.

    All things considered it wasn't a terrible laydown since you screwed yourself out of information. I might have payed this off myself.
    It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
    Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
  7. #7
    Yep, I think a sizeable flop raise gets you the information you were looking for.
    I'll be a rootin' tootin' shootin' damn fool, protectin' my chips.
  8. #8
    Guys thanks for the tips! AA is still a hand I can't help but get worked up over. It's a hand I'm afraid of getting beat on more so than any other. I think there's a humiliation factor in there or something. I will gladly go AI with AA in a tourney but somehow get timid when playing a flop.
  9. #9
    Playing AA scared is horrible. Unless the flop is yelling at you, you probably have the best hand.
    Quote Originally Posted by lambchopdc
    Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.

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