Help against uberTAGG ratholers: 25nl

UB's FR 25nl tables have this cult of ratholers with 6/6/6 stats. They buy in for $5 (20bb) and 3bet everything in their range, using larger than average opening amounts so they're certain to get it all in the flop on every hand.

I play standard 100bb TAGG poker (16/14/4). Against 1 ratholer, no problems. Against 2, it's annoying and hard to have a decent win rate. But against 3 or more, you're just plain screwed. Or I am.

I've tried table selection, but it can be hard to avoid all 20 of them when they multitable on a small site. I've tried keeping them to my right, and it helps.

The worst part of it is that they scare off the big and medium stacks any time they get in a hand. You never seem to play a big hand. So even if I don't lose to any of them, it's hard to win against the table and the rake because of the dynamics they create.

Any ideas on how to fight back ? I guess I'll just play 6max where they don't hang out. But this rathole strategy can't be bullet proof, can it?

In theory the blinds should kill them if they play this way. Avoid giving them action but rape their blinds and be prepared to call lightly if they defend them.

Originally Posted by arkana

In theory the blinds should kill them if they play this way. Avoid giving them action but rape their blinds and be prepared to call lightly if they defend them.

They seem to defend (i.e. play more than 6% of their hands from the BB), but I was spectacularly unsuccessful catching them with less than premium hands when they did yesterday. I kept getting JJ in against QQ, and QQ in against KK.

i hate linking away from FTR, but this post is excellent.

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...umber=12157664

Originally Posted by XTR1000

i hate linking away from FTR, but this post is excellent.

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...umber=12157664

Wow. Awesome post. I'll have to reread that later when I have time to digest it all. Thanks.

I haven't noticed this phenomenon. I just searched in April and there are zero hands where I went all-in and got called by a $5 shorty. They're all big pot hands.

Wait a second, 6/6/6? How about just don't play with them. I can't imagine how someone that tight is disrupting your game. If there are 3 at a table leave for fucks sake. With 2 they affect 11% of your hands at most.

Originally Posted by swiggidy

I haven't noticed this phenomenon. I just searched in April and there are zero hands where I went all-in and got called by a $5 shorty. They're all big pot hands.

Seems to be a UB cult. They're all over the FR 25nl tables.

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Wait a second, 6/6/6? How about just don't play with them. I can't imagine how someone that tight is disrupting your game. If there are 3 at a table leave for fucks sake. With 2 they affect 11% of your hands at most.

I've pretty much given up FR at UB 'cuz it's damn near impossible to get a table without 2+ of these ratholers at it. They vary between 7/7 and 9/9, but seem to positionally aware. If you get 2 of them within 4 seats to your left, it sucks so hard it leaves bruises.

I used 6/6/6 'cuz they really are an unholy horde from Hell

Are they all from Germany?

The numbers of uber tag that buy in for 20BB on FTP is growing fast. Every time you mouse over one he's from Germany. I've started finding tables with no 20 BB stacks. Gonna go read XTR's link now.

Originally Posted by vegascoop

Are they all from Germany?

The numbers of uber tag that buy in for 20BB on FTP is growing fast. Every time you mouse over one he's from Germany. I've started finding tables with no 20 BB stacks. Gonna go read XTR's link now.

I've noticed this on stars too they all have the same gay avatar all from deustchland.

THANKFULLY THEY ALL SUCK

In 1.6k hands at 6max today, I'm up 1.5 BI's. In 400 hands at FR against the ubernit ratholers, I'm down 2 BI. I know it's a small sample size, but it's large enough that I would rather have my eyelids torn off than play that shit again.

can't wait until sites start to impose 40bb minimum buy-ins...

Originally Posted by vegascoop

Are they all from Germany?

Braindead shortstacking is very popular among germans, I have the same issues on iPoker. Most of these are following a short stacking strat that was spread by a fat dumb guy maybe a year ago. He posted his article here on FTR as well and it was quite funny. I´m in a hurry, gonna search the link later

Originally Posted by daven

can't wait until sites start to impose 40bb minimum buy-ins...

I like Absolute right for several reasons:

1. 200BB buy-ins means insta-deep stacking
2. New software w/ buttons for bet pot and bet half pot
3. Superuser accounts

After an hour 4 tabling 6max, you can easily have half the table with 300-400BB stacks. With the villain on your left 40/3/3.5. :P

Originally Posted by Robb

Originally Posted by daven

can't wait until sites start to impose 40bb minimum buy-ins...

I like Absolute right for several reasons:

1. 200BB buy-ins means insta-deep stacking
2. New software w/ buttons for bet pot and bet half pot
3. Superuser accounts

After an hour 4 tabling 6max, you can easily have half the table with 300-400BB stacks. With the villain on your left 40/3/3.5. :P

does AP still have those huge non-resizable tables?


edit: Here´s the link. Have fun

Originally Posted by XTR1000

does AP still have those huge non-resizable tables?

edit: Here´s the link. Have fun

No. Tables resize fine, and PA HUD supports it.

I still don't see the link, tho.

ctrl+c, ctrl+v....too many buttons to press

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...?highlight=sss

Originally Posted by XTR1000

i hate linking away from FTR, but this post is excellent.

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...umber=12157664

Thank you so much for this. I've been playing on iPoker as you know, and am finding the 50nl FR to be INFESTED with these 6/6 20bb shorties. I did have the vague idea that I was folding too much vs them in general, but this clarifies things greatly.

Originally Posted by eugmac

Originally Posted by XTR1000

i hate linking away from FTR, but this post is excellent.

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...umber=12157664

Thank you so much for this. I've been playing on iPoker as you know, and am finding the 50nl FR to be INFESTED with these 6/6 20bb shorties. I did have the vague idea that I was folding too much vs them in general, but this clarifies things greatly.

+1

http://intellipoker.com/ <-german short stacker website.

If I paid attention during my year of German I could read it alas I cannot and I cannot thank them for all sucking and contributing to my roll =(

Originally Posted by vegascoop

Are they all from Germany?

The numbers of uber tag that buy in for 20BB on FTP is growing fast. Every time you mouse over one he's from Germany. I've started finding tables with no 20 BB stacks. Gonna go read XTR's link now.

There's a reason for this. You should see the number of these guys increasing on Titan, Stars, Party, Mansion and FTP., b/c they're getting $50+$100 of starting capital from a certain shortstacking strategy website that shall remain nameless but you probably know if you've been paying attention recently. They're signing up noobs as an affiliate and getting a cut of the rake:

You are wondering why we are making a cost-free and noncommittal offer and giving away starting capital? Getting $50+$100 for free without any obligation is hard to believe.

We live on our members who play poker online at poker platforms. XXXXXXXXXX receives a commission for it from these poker platforms. This commission is financed by the revenues of the poker platform meaning that playing at these poker rooms is by no means more expensive than playing there without registering over XXXXXXXXXX.

First of all XXXXXXXXXX invests $50 starting capital in every member so that the member - you! - can learn poker riskfree without depositing your own money. You can release an additional $100 bonus for free while you are playing.

XXXXXXXXX only gets a commission if the members is playing poker. That means it is in XXXXXXXXXX's as well as your interest if you play well und increase your starting capital. If our members gamble away their starting capital XXXXXXXXX does not get any provision. Therefore typical gamblers are not our target group.

The better you play and the higher the stakes you are playing at, the higher the commission. XXXXXXXXX and you have the same goal: If you win, also XXXXXXXXXX wins! And the more you win, the more XXXXXXXX wins.

Thus it is an advantage for both sides. Because of this we are keen to offer high quality knowledge, coachings and interesting promotions to our members. The bigger part of the online poker players is just playing for fun and does not have the necessary strategic knowledge to play poker successfully. Therefore the members of XXXXXXXXX have a big advantage which will directly affect your winnings.

We can invest the $50+$100 starting capital in you with a clear conscience because we are positive about our offer. The experience and our big community show that we are first class when it is about making you an excellent poker player.

gg any future rakeback income for any noobs that sign up through these guys

Originally Posted by Bbickes

http://intellipoker.com/ <-german short stacker website.

^^^^ not these guys

Originally Posted by XTR1000

edit: Here´s the link. Have fun

Originally Posted by Robb

I like Absolute right for several reasons:
2. New software w/ buttons for bet pot and bet half pot

I absolutely hate sites with betpot buttons. It makes the pots larger and the donks overbet most turns with these buttons making drawing hands 200BB deep almost worthless. I'm sure when playing 100BB and having guys bet TPMK for full pot is nice, but there are no tells on whether it's a monster or a bluff. They bet the same, they always bet pot. It's frustrating and evil. Anything that makes the correct decisions easier for fish is never a good thing.

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

Originally Posted by Robb

I like Absolute right for several reasons:
2. New software w/ buttons for bet pot and bet half pot

I absolutely hate sites with betpot buttons. It makes the pots larger and the donks overbet most turns with these buttons making drawing hands 200BB deep almost worthless. I'm sure when playing 100BB and having guys bet TPMK for full pot is nice, but there are no tells on whether it's a monster or a bluff. They bet the same, they always bet pot. It's frustrating and evil. Anything that makes the correct decisions easier for fish is never a good thing.

Which is why the superuser account option is vital.