This is how you don't play kings.

PokerStars Game #2513898170: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2005/09/06 - 17:59:37 (ET)
Table 'Astyanax' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: dsaxton ($109.55 in chips)
Seat 2: WizTrust ($49.65 in chips)
Seat 3: caliméro ($318.30 in chips)
Seat 4: HoldupCowboy ($49.55 in chips)
Seat 6: DC888888 ($101.10 in chips)
Seat 7: stuart9 ($64.95 in chips)
Seat 8: mervhage ($58.35 in chips)
Seat 9: mywall ($49.40 in chips)
caliméro: posts small blind $0.50
HoldupCowboy: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dsaxton [9d 8s]
DC888888: folds
stuart9: folds
mervhage: folds
mywall: folds
dsaxton: raises $3 to $4
WizTrust: folds
caliméro: raises $6 to $10
HoldupCowboy: folds
dsaxton: calls $6
*** FLOP *** [Jh Jc Tc]
caliméro: bets $10
dsaxton: raises $10 to $20
caliméro: calls $10
*** TURN *** [Jh Jc Tc] [7s]
caliméro: bets $38
dsaxton: calls $38
*** RIVER *** [Jh Jc Tc 7s] [3h]
caliméro: bets $45
dsaxton: calls $41.55 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
caliméro: shows [Kd Kc] (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
dsaxton: shows [9d 8s] (a straight, Seven to Jack)
dsaxton collected $217.10 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $220.10 | Rake $3
Board [Jh Jc Tc 7s 3h]
Seat 1: dsaxton showed [9d 8s] and won ($217.10) with a straight, Seven to Jack
Seat 2: WizTrust (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: caliméro (small blind) showed [Kd Kc] and lost with two pair, Kings and Jacks
Seat 4: HoldupCowboy (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: DC888888 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: stuart9 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: mervhage folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: mywall folded before Flop (didn't bet)

*** FLOP *** [Jh Jc Tc]
caliméro: bets $10
dsaxton: raises $10 to $20
caliméro: Is all in
dsaxton: doh

What's your thought process on the pre-flop call and flop play?

Originally Posted by Fnord

What's your thought process on the pre-flop call and flop play?

He's representing a big pair, and he doesn't know what I have. I can either bluff him off his hand (which apparently isn't possible against this guy), or catch a good flop and win his stack.

I thought the flop was perfect for semi-bluffing, so I raised representing 3 jacks. Many players may fold outright to a minimum raise, and even if they do call, most wouldn't be able to call a substantial bluff on the turn with a board like this when all they're holding is a pair of kings or aces.

Edit: I couldn't win his stack. I should've said double up.

Out of curiousity, if he had played it as Poker Pat had suggested, would you have called an allin on the flop? I'm assuming not.

Originally Posted by dsaxton

Originally Posted by Fnord

What's your thought process on the pre-flop call and flop play?

He's representing a big pair, and he doesn't know what I have. I can either bluff him off his hand (which apparently isn't possible against this guy), or catch a good flop and win his stack.

I thought the flop was perfect for semi-bluffing, so I raised representing 3 jacks. Many players may fold outright to a minimum raise, and even if they do call, most wouldn't be able to call a substantial bluff on the turn with a board like this when all they're holding is a pair of kings or aces.

It seems to me that this is not a good play after the flop. You are almost a 75% loser and its HU, so with no ability to bluff him, why is this a good move?

pokenum -h kd kc - 9d 8s -- jh jc tc
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing Jc Tc Jh
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Kc Kd 735 74.24 255 25.76 0 0.00 0.742
8s 9d 255 25.76 735 74.24 0 0.00 0.258

Originally Posted by Maharajah

Originally Posted by dsaxton

Originally Posted by Fnord

What's your thought process on the pre-flop call and flop play?

He's representing a big pair, and he doesn't know what I have. I can either bluff him off his hand (which apparently isn't possible against this guy), or catch a good flop and win his stack.

I thought the flop was perfect for semi-bluffing, so I raised representing 3 jacks. Many players may fold outright to a minimum raise, and even if they do call, most wouldn't be able to call a substantial bluff on the turn with a board like this when all they're holding is a pair of kings or aces.

It seems to me that this is not a good play after the flop. You are almost a 75% loser and its HU, so with no ability to bluff him, why is this a good move?

pokenum -h kd kc - 9d 8s -- jh jc tc
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing Jc Tc Jh
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Kc Kd 735 74.24 255 25.76 0 0.00 0.742
8s 9d 255 25.76 735 74.24 0 0.00 0.258

Obviously I didn't realize he was unbluffable until after the hand. I was assuming he had at least half a brain.

Originally Posted by DaHorror

Out of curiousity, if he had played it as Poker Pat had suggested, would you have called an allin on the flop? I'm assuming not.

No, that also would've been complete suicide with a big pair.