I cant calculate pot odds on the fly......

Passive table...thought more limpers would come in behind me.

With the OESD on the flop and those bets before me, I tried to determine what my odds were there if a call was worth it.....however I am not very good at trying to do this math on the fly...then I was running out of time so I just folded. Any suggestions?

Dealer: Hand #143278875
Dealer: cashgarage has 5 seconds left to act
Dealer: cashgarage posts the small blind of $0.05
Dealer: Buckeye1959 posts the big blind of $0.10
Dealer: You have been dealt [7h 8h]
Dealer: bunman100 folds
Dealer: berry03 calls $0.10
Dealer: funplay1 calls $0.10
Dealer: BobbySalami calls $0.10
Dealer: MyJewishLife folds
Dealer: Buttman_71 folds
Dealer: spidey23 folds
Dealer: cashgarage calls $0.05
Dealer: Buckeye1959 checks
Dealer: The flop is [9d 6h Kd]
Dealer: cashgarage bets $0.50
Dealer: Buckeye1959 folds
Dealer: berry03 calls $0.50
Dealer: funplay1 folds
Dealer: BobbySalami has 15 seconds left to act
Dealer: BobbySalami folds
Dealer: The turn is [8c]
Dealer: cashgarage bets $1.50
Dealer: berry03 calls $1.50
Dealer: The river is [Qs]
Dealer: cashgarage bets $4.50
Dealer: berry03 calls $4.50
Dealer: Buckeye1959 is sitting out
Dealer: cashgarage shows two pair, Nines and Sixes
Dealer: berry03 mucks
Dealer: cashgarage wins the pot ($12.85) with two pair, Nines and Sixes

What usually takes too long, figuring out your chance of hitting, or dividing bet by the amount that's in the pot? If it's the second, you should look for a table that gives approximate fraction-to-percentages and find the closest fraction to your situation...

I usually just knock the numbers about quickly until something falls into place. Take a $14 bet into a $63 pot. That's close to $15 into a $60 pot, which is 25%. Then I figure that my pot odds are slightly better than that, because in my calculations I increased the bet to me and decreased the pot size, making it something like 23%. (it's actually 22.222222...%). Although, this isn't the most accurate method...

Originally Posted by lowBoy

What usually takes too long, figuring out your chance of hitting, or dividing bet by the amount that's in the pot? If it's the second, you should look for a table that gives approximate fraction-to-percentages and find the closest fraction to your situation...

I usually just knock the numbers about quickly until something falls into place. Take a $14 bet into a $63 pot. That's close to $15 into a $60 pot, which is 25%. Then I figure that my pot odds are slightly better than that, because in my calculations I increased the bet to me and decreased the pot size, making it something like 23%. (it's actually 22.222222...%). Although, this isn't the most accurate method...

Yeah, its the math with the pot that takes me too long to decide......I have trouble calculating the percent of my bet into the pot and then thinking about the percent to hit my hand before my hand is folded from timing out......

I mean, i can do it now looking back at it, but it takes me too damned long to do it in the moment

You could use something like this.
http://www.texasholdem-poker.com/pot...calculator.php

Texas Calculatem calculates live odds for you, I think you have to buy it though.

http://www.calculatem.com/

I'm still trying to become quick at it also..

I do kind of what the first guy says, I get just a rough estimate. Considering your playing NL and implied odds are the arguably more important than pot odds, a rough estimate will usually work, considering a large chunk of your analysis is going to be on implied odds anyways.

I think if you were playing Limit an exact pot odds figure instantly would be more crucial than in no-limit.

Have you tried thinking of it in terms of fractions, thats generally easier, you are getting a bit worse than 3:1 there on your money there.

I just put it into units of the size of the bet. so say a pot is 50 dollars and someone bets 20 dollars, that makes the pot 70 dollars and i have to call 20. There are 3.5 20 dollar units in the pot so i'm getting 3.5 to 1 on my money. Also i would always call there because of implied odds. It makes it easier this way, because you can generally just count the number of callers, divide the pot up into the same units and then figure it out pretty quick.

multiply the number of outs you have after the flop by 4, that gives you a rough estimate of your chance of hitting with 2 cards to come. for 1 card to come multiply it by 2.

flush draw = 9 outs = 9x4 = 36%
OESD = 8 outs = 8x4 = 32%

sometimes percentages are easier to work with than odds

so pretty much you know ur percent to hit within 1 second of thinking, then you have the rest of the time to calculate the pot odds, which shouldnt be that hard, round to an easy number, and make it into an easy simplifiable fraction

Originally Posted by bair

multiply the number of outs you have after the flop by 4, that gives you a rough estimate of your chance of hitting with 2 cards to come. for 1 card to come multiply it by 2.

flush draw = 9 outs = 9x4 = 36%
OESD = 8 outs = 8x4 = 32%

sometimes percentages are easier to work with than odds

so pretty much you know ur percent to hit within 1 second of thinking, then you have the rest of the time to calculate the pot odds, which shouldnt be that hard, round to an easy number, and make it into an easy simplifiable fraction

Okay, I cand do that part pretty quickly which has been what I've been doing prior, however I like how BMXicle put it, that would seem easy to do.

But since im not great at math, how do I convert my Percentage to hit my hand to the pot odds I am getting.....Like if I am 32% in this case, and my odds are 3:1...how do I look at these the same?

Thanks

Just divide it up into units just the same. 100%/32 is approximately equal to three. That means 1 of those units you will hit (33%) and two of those units you wont, so you have a 2:1 chance of hitting your hand. Alot of the odds of hitting hands you will memorize over time, like i don't do much math when it comes to figuring out how often my hand will hit because i already know most of it.

Great!...thanks a lot! This will help with my math...I will probably write out a chart I can reference for certain draws until I memorize them.

Thanks again!

EDIT: so just to clarify, a call on the flop there is g00t?

yes its good, but just barely, if the other guy wouldnt have called it wouldn't have been good.

Originally Posted by bair

yes its good, but just barely, if the other guy wouldnt have called it wouldn't have been good.

Sorry, geting confused again. Say that other guy didnt call, For OESD your odds are 2:1, with 1 dollar in the pot if the other guy DOESN'T call, a 0.50 call would be 2:1 wouldn't it?

Sorry if I suck at math.....

Originally Posted by bair

multiply the number of outs you have after the flop by 4, that gives you a rough estimate of your chance of hitting with 2 cards to come.

I've read that this can be a misleading way to think about it though because there's another round of betting in between the turn and river. Maybe it's not as bad as what I remember reading proposed, but I generally only count my outs down to the river if I'm going AI.

Now that I think about it, am I losing EV this way? Is it worth it to count odds in terms of the next two cards if you're not planning on pushing?

Originally Posted by BobbySalami

For OESD your odds are 2:1, with 1 dollar in the pot if the other guy DOESN'T call, a 0.50 call would be 2:1 wouldn't it?

Yup, that's right. Also, I tried to explain what bmxicle is talking about, but it didn't come out right... I do that as well a lot of the time, think about the number of bets and the pot size.

just memorize chances of hitting draw

OESD is slightly better then 5:1 with 1 card to come (17%)and slightly worse then 2:1 with 2 cards (32%)

remember that 2:1 = 33% 3:1 = 25% 4:1 = 20% 5:1 = 16%

now look at pot size and bet size which is .50 to 1.50 = 3:1. chances of hitting are 5:1

now look at stack sizes in relation to urs if there big call if not fold (implied odds almost always mean a call is correct)

Originally Posted by BobbySalami

Originally Posted by bair

yes its good, but just barely, if the other guy wouldnt have called it wouldn't have been good.

Sorry, geting confused again. Say that other guy didnt call, For OESD your odds are 2:1, with 1 dollar in the pot if the other guy DOESN'T call, a 0.50 call would be 2:1 wouldn't it?

Sorry if I suck at math.....

OESD odds are not 2:1 becuase u expect there to be action on the turn making ur pot odds calculations go poof so always calculate odds for only 1 card to come unless ur going all in. so ur odds for OESD are 5:1 not 2:1 making a call with pot odds at 2:1 very bad unless u expect the pot to be more then $3 if u showdown (implied odds)

until i knew the odds properly i had a little chart stuck on my monitor.. it looked like this

odds to hit on the next card

trips - hits 1/25
gutshot - hits 1/12
pair with 2 overs - hits 1/8
OESD - hits 1/6
flush - hits 1/5
flush+gutshot - hits 1/4
flush+OESD - hits 1/3

to work out if i have good odds i round there bet to an easy figure to work with and muliply it by the applicable number from the chart, call if the result is less than or =to the pot.

texascalculatem works well if your not quick enough with the maths, it gives you odds of not only your hand but odds of what the others might have, and gives you advice. but it does cost money.

gl learning it all

Originally Posted by Fleece

Originally Posted by BobbySalami

Originally Posted by bair

yes its good, but just barely, if the other guy wouldnt have called it wouldn't have been good.

Sorry, geting confused again. Say that other guy didnt call, For OESD your odds are 2:1, with 1 dollar in the pot if the other guy DOESN'T call, a 0.50 call would be 2:1 wouldn't it?

Sorry if I suck at math.....

OESD odds are not 2:1 becuase u expect there to be action on the turn making ur pot odds calculations go poof so always calculate odds for only 1 card to come unless ur going all in. so ur odds for OESD are 5:1 not 2:1 making a call with pot odds at 2:1 very bad unless u expect the pot to be more then $3 if u showdown (implied odds)

AHAH!.....This is were I was getting confused!

Now lemme think out loud to make sure I have a firm grasp of this.....Say the first guy bet the $0.50 but was All-In, second guy folded....then this would be a correct call since i get the next two cards for $0.50 correct?

Also if they both had called, but they had huge stacks a call is good here due to good implied odds.....

Everything else fold......

Yay, do I got it now?

Thanks for helping a n00b out everyone!

Originally Posted by BobbySalami

Originally Posted by Fleece

Originally Posted by BobbySalami

Originally Posted by bair

yes its good, but just barely, if the other guy wouldnt have called it wouldn't have been good.

Sorry, geting confused again. Say that other guy didnt call, For OESD your odds are 2:1, with 1 dollar in the pot if the other guy DOESN'T call, a 0.50 call would be 2:1 wouldn't it?

Sorry if I suck at math.....

OESD odds are not 2:1 becuase u expect there to be action on the turn making ur pot odds calculations go poof so always calculate odds for only 1 card to come unless ur going all in. so ur odds for OESD are 5:1 not 2:1 making a call with pot odds at 2:1 very bad unless u expect the pot to be more then $3 if u showdown (implied odds)

AHAH!.....This is were I was getting confused!

Now lemme think out loud to make sure I have a firm grasp of this.....Say the first guy bet the $0.50 but was All-In, second guy folded....then this would be a correct call since i get the next two cards for $0.50 correct?

Also if they both had called, but they had huge stacks a call is good here due to good implied odds.....

Everything else fold......

Yay, do I got it now?

Thanks for helping a n00b out everyone!

yea that pretty much sums it up

There are really only four different set out outs to realize, everything is added up for argument sake.

You have:

The flush draw
The OESD draw

In LHE, you aren't folding any of these for any bets on the flop. IN NL, you need to make sure you are getting 3/1 to call.

The Gutshot draw

You need roughly 8-1 calling a gutshot draw on the flop with implied odds figured in. In NL, you can probably go as low as 6-1 because you can go all-in.

The Middle pair draw. A little better than the gutshot and a lot worse than a flush draw. Again, I would say 6-1 to call.

All the other draws you really dont need the odds for as its fairly simple to tell if you are ahead or behind. Some experience will help this out.

You're leaving out common combination draws. Quite often if you look hard enough you can find extra outs...