KK Unmaximized

Can you be confident with KK in a re-re raised pot and A on the Flop?

***** Hand History for Game 2365995197 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, July 15, 01:17:55 EDT 2005
Table Table 36664 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: Shauna1981 ( $47.60 )
Seat 4: tusker88 ( $13.27 )
Seat 5: Bandit14 ( $15.75 )
Seat 8: PorkChopMone ( $75.01 )
Seat 9: DrBluff123 ( $19.95 )
Seat 6: greif ( $18.70 )
Seat 3: Hufnagle ( $22.25 )
Seat 1: Solklar ( $23.40 )
Seat 10: hazazil ( $24.65 )
Seat 7: zanevino ( $25 )
DrBluff123 posts small blind [$0.10].
hazazil posts big blind [$0.25].
zanevino posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to PorkChopMone [ Kc Kd ]
Solklar folds.
Shauna1981 raises [$1.25].
Hufnagle folds.
tusker88 folds.
Bandit14 folds.
greif folds.
zanevino folds.
PorkChopMone raises [$2.25].
DrBluff123 folds.
hazazil folds.
Shauna1981 raises [$2].
PorkChopMone raises [$3.75].
Shauna1981 calls [$2.75].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4h, As, 6d ]
Shauna1981 checks.
PorkChopMone: hmmmmmmmmmm
zzzzzzzzzzzzz
PorkChopMone checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2h ]
Shauna1981 bets [$5].
PorkChopMone calls [$5].
** Dealing River ** [ 3s ]
Shauna1981 checks.
PorkChopMone checks.
Shauna1981 shows [ Qh, Qd ] a pair of queens.
PorkChopMone shows [ Kc, Kd ] a pair of kings.
PorkChopMone wins $21.50 from the main pot with a pair of kings.

1. When you raise the last time on the flop, raise more. At least $2 more than you did. Don't have to push all in, but make sure you're emphatic - this is not just a pissing match.
2. The flat call on the end pre-flop says that your opponent probably doesn't have pocket aces. Pocket aces seldom stop raising once they start up, and with good reason.
3. Your opponent checked on the flop. They probably don't have aces. Bet half the pot and see what happens.
4. If you did #3 and got called, the rest of the hand probably goes down like this: Shauna checks, you bet 1/2 the pot again, Shauna folds or calls. On the river Shauna checks, you check behind, and take down a pretty nice pot. Or if you're feeling saucy, even one last value bet on the kings... most players wouldn't, I probably wouldn't, but it's a good long-run play if you trust your read.
5. I do think with the opening action there's very little chance of aces, but maybe a moderate chance of AK. However, AK probably bets out on that flop. 95% of the time you're winning this hand. You can be pretty confident betting the flop, and then slow down as the hand goes along just in case you're wrong. If Shauna ever fires a huge re-raise at you though, you can fold and assume she was just playing aces a bit strangely.

Don't min-reraise that's terrible play.

He bets, you should have raised to at least 3$. When he comes back over the top he would have committed MUCH more of his chips and you can just move in. He is a newb and you would have probably gotten his whole stack

Originally Posted by doggz

He is a newb and you would have probably gotten his whole stack

I don't agree, the opponent played this smart:
- raised with pocket queens
- re-raised once for information
- flat-called a second re-raise, obviously thinking it meant trouble (but the price was right, so why not call and hope for a queen to flop?)
- checked the dangerous flop
- noticed the check behind from our hero, which means that A. the queens might be good; and/or B. the pot can be stolen
- bet out a decent amount on the turn trying to steal the pot, or value bet the queens, or both
- checked again on the river after a scary call from our hero on the turn

There's absolutely nothing in this hand that I would do differently with pocket queens. There's several things I would have done differently with the kings, though.

Pre-flop, I of course was scared of AA when my re-raise got raised again, and so re-raised modestly to see if I got raised again. I can see now that this was not the best move, so thanks. I have no problem loing a buy-in with the KK all in pre-flop, but it was going to cost me two buyins if she had AA. So I flinched. I know AA is NOT going to stop betting, so I was happy that my last bet was just called. I agree that I should have bet the flop, and then the turn if I still had an opponent.
Thanks for your comments.

I really need to work on this game! If I can't play KK right, how do you suppose I'm playing all the other hands!!!!!

Here's to learning!

Originally Posted by dalecooper

Originally Posted by doggz

He is a newb and you would have probably gotten his whole stack

I don't agree, the opponent played this smart:
- raised with pocket queens
- re-raised once for information
- flat-called a second re-raise, obviously thinking it meant trouble (but the price was right, so why not call and hope for a queen to flop?)
- checked the dangerous flop
- noticed the check behind from our hero, which means that A. the queens might be good; and/or B. the pot can be stolen
- bet out a decent amount on the turn trying to steal the pot, or value bet the queens, or both
- checked again on the river after a scary call from our hero on the turn

There's absolutely nothing in this hand that I would do differently with pocket queens. There's several things I would have done differently with the kings, though.

You obviously don't play 25nl ever. QQ = the nuts.