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  1. #1

    Default KQ OOP

    Standard?

    Villain is 26/17.


    PokerStars Game #25322930670: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2009/02/24 21:50:46 ET
    Table 'Tatjana III' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
    Seat 2: BadAtMath123 ($28.85 in chips)
    Seat 3: BUGSY213 ($30 in chips)
    Seat 4: toad9 ($18.85 in chips)
    Seat 5: MrsButton ($40.85 in chips)
    Seat 6: Guitardude19 ($15.65 in chips)
    Seat 7: Brat_at_UofC ($35 in chips)
    Seat 8: hgbnice ($17.30 in chips)
    toad9: posts small blind $0.10
    MrsButton: posts big blind $0.25
    SaarZocker76: sits out
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Brat_at_UofC [Kh Qh]
    Guitardude19: folds
    Brat_at_UofC: raises $0.75 to $1
    hgbnice: folds
    BadAtMath123: calls $1
    BUGSY213: folds
    toad9: calls $0.90
    MrsButton: folds
    *** FLOP *** [8d 3d Kc]
    toad9: checks
    Brat_at_UofC: bets $2.20
    BadAtMath123: calls $2.20
    toad9: folds
    *** TURN *** [8d 3d Kc] [5s]
    Brat_at_UofC: checks
    BadAtMath123: bets $5
    B00NDOKSAINT joins the table at seat #9
    Brat_at_UofC: calls $5
    *** RIVER *** [8d 3d Kc 5s] [Jc]
    Brat_at_UofC: checks
    BadAtMath123: bets $20.65 and is all-in
    Brat_at_UofC said, "set?"
    Brat_at_UofC said, "AK"
    Brat_at_UofC: folds
    Uncalled bet ($20.65) returned to BadAtMath123
    BadAtMath123 collected $16.80 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot $17.65 | Rake $0.85
    Board [8d 3d Kc 5s Jc]
    Seat 2: BadAtMath123 collected ($16.80)
    Seat 3: BUGSY213 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: toad9 (small blind) folded on the Flop
    Seat 5: MrsButton (big blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 6: Guitardude19 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: Brat_at_UofC folded on the River
    Seat 8: hgbnice folded before Flop (didn't bet)
  2. #2
    bet turn shove river, check calling the turn then check folding the river is really bad.
    "This sure beats Super Mario Bros.!" is my ejaculation catch phrase.
  3. #3
    sorry, didn't know that I didn't convert this hand...


    oh wow. Really? What am I expecting to call me on turn and river? Doesn't AK and sets make up a big portion of his turn calling range? Am I really ahead here enough?


    "Gotta run well eventually."
  4. #4
    What's your V$IP/PFR?

    You're getting floated here a shit load of times if you c-bet top pair on flops like this and then proceed c/c or c/f brick turns oop (add that to all the flops you air and c-bet + proceed to check call, you're doing that with way too many hands probably. This will be so obvious to an observant opponent that they can flat your raise all day in position and it doesn't matter what they have because they know you're going to shut down more often than you should come later streets).

    Like ATO' said, keep betting. If you have a tight image you'll get credit for continuing to bet and I don't imagine you'll be bluff-raised on the turn/river very often on a board of this texture unless villain has certain reads on you.

    However, I don't think the way you played this hand is as bad as the chat you carried on with....

    Your chat gives away alot about your style/thinking IMO. I'll leave you to figure that one out since I don't want to tell you the answer right away, if you can't I'll tell you, but try and think about what those words reveal about your game. It may not hurt youas much at lower stakes, but I imagine if you move on to play bigger games your opponets will be able to use things like this against you, and the unfortunate part is you may not even notice.
  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Im_new
    sorry, didn't know that I didn't convert this hand...


    oh wow. Really? What am I expecting to call me on turn and river? Doesn't AK and sets make up a big portion of his turn calling range? Am I really ahead here enough?
    Postlfop stats would be good for this question. He could be a station or a nit postflop. If he's 27/17 he's probably taking some flops facing a raise in position with big suited broadway + suited connector type hands (and small pairs), so he probably has a mix of top pair/weaker kicker, flush draw, and sets. KQ, KJ will show up here alot I believe. If your turn bet get's raised it's probably time to dump it. If we don't have reads though, we can't put him on an accurate continuing range for the turn, so I can't see how we aren't continuing the betting here. If villain is floating you'll find yourself picking up the pot on the turn often.
  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
    What's your V$IP/PFR?

    You're getting floated here a shit load of times if you c-bet top pair on flops like this and then proceed c/c or c/f brick turns oop (add that to all the flops you air and c-bet + proceed to check call, you're doing that with way too many hands probably. This will be so obvious to an observant opponent that they can flat your raise all day in position and it doesn't matter what they have because they know you're going to shut down more often than you should come later streets).

    Like ATO' said, keep betting. If you have a tight image you'll get credit for continuing to bet and I don't imagine you'll be bluff-raised on the turn/river very often on a board of this texture unless villain has certain reads on you.

    However, I don't think the way you played this hand is as bad as the chat you carried on with....

    Your chat gives away alot about your style/thinking IMO. I'll leave you to figure that one out since I don't want to tell you the answer right away, if you can't I'll tell you, but try and think about what those words reveal about your game. It may not hurt youas much at lower stakes, but I imagine if you move on to play bigger games your opponets will be able to use things like this against you, and the unfortunate part is you may not even notice.
    I run about 15/10 right now, so yeah, I nitty it up too often. i have extra trouble figuring out which hands to second barrel with on which boards against which villian. Its always been a leak.

    I don't have enough hands to conclude anything too accurate about his post flop play (less than 100).

    And I know what my chat says about me. It says that I give credit credit easily and too often. This will lead them to take this float-bet turn line against me more often, thus attack a weak portion in my game. But like you said, it hardly means anything to most 25nl players. (Though If they think this about me, doesn't some second level thinking come into play for me? If I start check/raising the turn as a counter to my "leak," it becomes a +EV.)

    All-in-all, I need to be getting three streets of value because of the flop's dryness. I shouldn't worry too often about the slowly played sets and such until I get raised on the turn, unless of course I'm betting into a nit who likes his hand.
  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Im_new
    sorry, didn't know that I didn't convert this hand...


    oh wow. Really? What am I expecting to call me on turn and river? Doesn't AK and sets make up a big portion of his turn calling range? Am I really ahead here enough?
    This guy isn't exactly tight for fullring standards, a ton of his range calls a 2nd barrel, if he raises you can be fairly confident your beat and fold, when you check call the turn you have no idea where you are half the time so just bet. If he just calls your turn bet you can be preety sure you have him beat and his range is made up mostly of worse kx's and flush draws, even 8x's if hes a bit of a cs, you can then value bet certain rivers accordingly. Betting just makes your life a ton easier as it really helps to narrow his range.
  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101
    Quote Originally Posted by Im_new
    sorry, didn't know that I didn't convert this hand...


    oh wow. Really? What am I expecting to call me on turn and river? Doesn't AK and sets make up a big portion of his turn calling range? Am I really ahead here enough?
    This guy isn't exactly tight for fullring standards, a ton of his range calls a 2nd barrel, if he raises you can be fairly confident your beat and fold, when you check call the turn you have no idea where you are half the time so just bet. If he just calls your turn bet you can be preety sure you have him beat and his range is made up mostly of worse kx's and flush draws, even 8x's if hes a bit of a cs, you can then value bet certain rivers accordingly. Betting just makes your life a ton easier as it really helps to narrow his range.

    hmm.. you're def right. thanks.

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