low set, destacking AA

POKERSTARS GAME #2410923796: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.25/$0.50) - 2005/08/24 - 05:31:54 (ET)
Table 'Virtus III' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Scott Owen ($45.95 in chips)
Seat 4: MoTheMaster ($53.55 in chips)
Seat 5: FeverToTell ($73.65 in chips)
Seat 7: johnniewalk ($55.90 in chips)
Seat 9: rty7aho ($38.20 in chips)
FeverToTell: posts small blind $0.25
johnniewalk: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Scott Owen [2h 2c]
rty7aho: folds
Scott Owen: calls $0.50
MoTheMaster: raises $1.50 to $2
FeverToTell: calls $1.75
johnniewalk: folds
Big Dave 478 joins the table at seat #3
Scott Owen: calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** [2d 4d Th]
FeverToTell: checks
Scott Owen: bets $5.50
MoTheMaster: raises $46.05 to $51.55 and is all-in
FeverToTell: folds
Scott Owen: calls $38.45 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [2d 4d Th] [8s]
*** RIVER *** [2d 4d Th 8s] [Jc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Scott Owen: shows [2h 2c] (three of a kind, Deuces)
MoTheMaster: mucks hand
Scott Owen collected $92.40 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $94.40 | Rake $2
Board [2d 4d Th 8s Jc]
Seat 1: Scott Owen showed [2h 2c] and won ($92.40) with three of a kind, Deuces
Seat 4: MoTheMaster (button) mucked [As Ac]
Seat 5: FeverToTell (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: johnniewalk (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: rty7aho folded before Flop (didn't bet)

my thoughts were that the flop push by him was really a shocking play.. so i'm kind of posting this as a "is this a way not to play AA?"

but also, with preflop.. i limp/call, do you think this is wise.. i need to win atleast $16 if i hit a set right? so would i want more people in the pot to make that call, or do you call on implied odds that one of them will pay something on the flop.. the $2 raise is consistent with a standard raise, so could be high cards which will pay nothing to my flop bet. Or it could even be a rag steal attempt considering he's on the button.

also, do think i would more often see that his AI on the flop is a bigger set?

I'm not sure I would come out with that bet on the flop. I would probably do a weaker $2.50ish bet and hope to get callers/raisers, but I'm not sure that's the better play. If you read him as being aggressive and you were able to put him on an overpair, then that's a fine play.

Originally Posted by DimitriT

I'm not sure I would come out with that bet on the flop. I would probably do a weaker $2.50ish bet and hope to get callers/raisers, but I'm not sure that's the better play. If you read him as being aggressive and you were able to put him on an overpair, then that's a fine play.

normally i would do as you say, more of a value bet with a set.. i went the full pot for the flush draw

Looks good to me. No i don't think you're going to be facing a higher set most of the time, you'll be facing bluffs and QQ/KK/AA usually. As the pre flop raiser i doubt he has 44, and if he has TT he's holding the best hand i think he'd put in a more callable raise.

I like the 5$ on the flop if you have a read that opp's are even a little aggressive. Looks like a steal with a mediocre hand since the pre flop raiser probably missed the flop when it falls all low cards. Nh

Played optimally. I usually bet smaller on the flop but your big bet elicited an AI so it was perfect against this opponent. His AI is not surprising, he just did it against a set but it’s not easy to put you on a set. I do not fear a higher set here, I’d call easily. With the flush draw on the board I guess betting the pot was a good idea given that he could hold AKs, AQs and such. He might also push AI with those given that he has two over cards plus a flush draw.

This kind of brings up a thought I've never really been too sure on. Say a flop comes down 279 (not many other details are important) The villian bets the pot and you're holding an over-pair. You re-raise him big and he responds with either a call or a push all-in. At 25nl tables I find a lot of the time they're just pushing something like A9. But once in a while you'll run up against a set. Do you think it's generally safe to take the hand to the end or if it safer to fold it here if they show more agression?

I probably don't bet this on the flop... but then again I don't play AA that shitty.

all PPers are definately worth 4xbb preflop

Nice play and Nice hand. Depends on the table and how aggressive the play is.

i had been thinking that i couldve been put on a set.. but that may be just because i nearly always play low pocket pairs the same way, i guess players at these stakes dont notice.. so whats the deal with him? he should have raised me smaller? allowing me to reraise and he know that he's beat? I thought he was a good player until this hand

Originally Posted by BIGandRICH

i had been thinking that i couldve been put on a set.. but that may be just because i nearly always play low pocket pairs the same way, i guess players at these stakes dont notice.. so whats the deal with him? he should have raised me smaller? allowing me to reraise and he know that he's beat? I thought he was a good player until this hand

That's the idea... although people with low sets facing a PF raiser usually don't bet the pot like that. Usually it's "Oh my god, I hit my set, gotta play it cool, play it cool!".

I wouldn't be surprised if he put you on JJ/QQ/KK or maybe even AT and thought his AA was good.

I think you played it about as well as the hand could've been played. That's an instant call.

I've had very similar hands with flopped sets. Poor players who are holding an overpair to the flop in EP, sometimes check. If the flop is checked to me and I've flopped a set in heads up play, I very rarely slowplay it. I recently had an EP player check raise me all in with 10 10 when the flop was 9 high and I had put in a pot sized bet. Holding top set 999, it was an easy call and a $200.00 pot.

Originally Posted by lowBoy

Originally Posted by BIGandRICH

i had been thinking that i couldve been put on a set.. but that may be just because i nearly always play low pocket pairs the same way, i guess players at these stakes dont notice.. so whats the deal with him? he should have raised me smaller? allowing me to reraise and he know that he's beat? I thought he was a good player until this hand

That's the idea... although people with low sets facing a PF raiser usually don't bet the pot like that. Usually it's "Oh my god, I hit my set, gotta play it cool, play it cool!".

I wouldn't be surprised if he put you on JJ/QQ/KK or maybe even AT and thought his AA was good.

Yeah, with that flop i'm sure he probally put you on KK, QQ,JJ, AT, or even Axd

Most people slowplay sets... so I can understand his all in...

ps: and people do sometimes make a stupid move... yesterday I missread someone and called his all in with a overpair... thank goodness I hit my FH... he had flopped a FH with his 63 ... :/