My stats at 10NL. I don't look too TAG...

I'm like 25/13 or so.

...is this normal?

I find with all the limping at 10NL (and I often join FR tables with 40%+ seeing the flop) I'm all too happy to limp along with low SC, stuff like Q8o, basically any group8, but I won't limp with non-sklansky starting hands ... Is this spew or what? I generally play mediocre hands like that pretty cautiously post-flop to avoid (or mitigate) the spew.

I also don't do any 'table image building' moves like raising low SC with limpers behind cause I figure your average 10NL player isn't really paying attention, and there's too many loose passives out there for moves like that to work. Good or no?

I just got pokertracker fairly recently. What personal stats should I really be paying attention to in an effort to track down spew?

I recently moved down from 25NL in an effort to have slightly more responsible bankroll management, are there any serious adjustments to make, or should I just expect a slight boost in maniacs? (god bless their crazy souls)

limping with SCs at a passive table isn't bad as long as you are only doing it in good position. Hands like Q8o (and A6o if you limp that too) you just need to fold. Suited Connectors can hit huge hands and if you play ok post flop you can make money from them, but crap like Q8o doesnt play well at all.

You are right, table image building moves are useless at 10nl, and raising low scs is certainly asking for trouble unless you are great at post flop play.

Spew is a term usually associated with making bad bluffs and a very high AF (aggression factor) can help identify if you are betting too often on the flop, turn, etc.. 'Leaks' are other mistakes you might be making (like limping Q8o) and PT can you help you identify a bunch of those. At 10nl i think you VPIP needs to be a lot lower as the best way to make money at those stakes is to just play good cards and value bet them.

The play shouldn't be too different at 25nl (BR management is VERY important so good job in realizing you need to move down). Yes there will be more absolute maniacs but the general strategy should be about the same as 25nl. Hope that helps.

Thanks Papal.

I only limp behind other limpers, and usually only in decent position. I try to avoid open limping, though I am known to do that with low PPs in early position...

I often find myself in the position of having a mediocre hand, late position, 2+ limpers, then the BU/SB/BB raises, and gets 2-3 callers, and I'm last or second last to act. Are the pot/implied odds good enough to call with low SC/J8s,... I'll always call with PPs, but what about other hands?

Also, what about hands like KT, A9, ... I hate being in the situation above with hands like that cause a part of me wants to call for pot odds, but another wants to fold cause I've got no idea where I am, and could easily be up against AJ, KJ, etc... Correct to fold these even with a raiser and 3 callers?

Are you winning? Youll find that the optimum style for very loose passive games is very different from the style that will beat a tightish-aggressive game. You don't look too far from the stats I play at in micro full ring. Perhaps a tad too loose with your limping. I always used to be around 20/13. You will have to tighten up considerably as you move up though.

Originally Posted by Pelion

Are you winning? Youll find that the optimum style for very loose passive games is very different from the style that will beat a tightish-aggressive game. You don't look too far from the stats I play at in micro full ring. Perhaps a tad too loose with your limping. I always used to be around 20/13. You will have to tighten up considerably as you move up though.

I am winning generally, and when I lose big it's almost always a bad beat of some kind or some unfoldable situation like set over set flopped or KK vs A9 PF vs shortie and he hits.

I still have trouble folding when a drawer hits on the river, calling me down well against pot odds. That's probably my biggest leak in these microstakes. Assuming that people think about pot odds...


My PT stats only have 2k hands so far, and I'm at 22BBs/100. I assume that'll drop a bunch as I see more hands...

when you read/think about suited connectors, think about cards that lie next to each other (e.g. 89) rather than cards that can form either end of a straight (e.g. Q8).
So you then have:
Suited connectors - play these in the right situation
1-gappers - again, play these (46s)
2-gappers - drop these (47)
3-gappers - drop these (48)

Try and bring it down to like 19-13 and see what happens. Limping Q8s is a good way to get stacked by an over flush, cos if everyone's limping then nobody is folding Axs

Originally Posted by Pelion

Are you winning? Youll find that the optimum style for very loose passive games is very different from the style that will beat a tightish-aggressive game. You don't look too far from the stats I play at in micro full ring. Perhaps a tad too loose with your limping. I always used to be around 20/13. You will have to tighten up considerably as you move up though.

I just tackled full ring NL10 for the first time seriously today. Played 650 hands at 19/10. Small sample, but I was 12 BB/100. I agree with much of the earlier posts - the only point at this level is to play for stacks. Either take a top hand and value bet, or take a late position shot into 5 limpers with something 76s.

I'm throwing away tons of Aces - I don't play anything worse than AJ or ATs unless I'm OTB. And I'm not touching bad Kings or bad Queens. But I'm loving middle sc's in multiway pots.

I loved all the fish here, too. I plan to camp out here a while, see if I can continue my initial success. Good luck to you, too.