never lay down a set right?

PokerStars Game #4170271540: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/03/04 - 06:47:01 (ET)
Table 'Unukalhai' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: SXICHIN ($23.50 in chips)
Seat 2: mightyducky ($98.45 in chips)
Seat 3: 777XXX777 ($89.70 in chips)
Seat 4: khb99 ($186.50 in chips)
Seat 5: kevstarr ($133.85 in chips)
Seat 6: journey075 ($106 in chips)
Seat 7: Outsmarted ($86.80 in chips)
Seat 8: redargoe ($460.40 in chips)
Seat 9: locomotives ($113.15 in chips)
locomotives: posts small blind $0.50
SXICHIN: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to journey075 [2h 2d]
mightyducky: folds
777XXX777: calls $1
khb99: folds
kevstarr: calls $1
journey075: calls $1
Outsmarted: folds
redargoe: raises $4 to $5
locomotives: calls $4.50
SXICHIN: folds
777XXX777: calls $4
kevstarr: calls $4
journey075: calls $4
*** FLOP *** [5c 3h 2s]
locomotives: bets $28
777XXX777: folds
kevstarr: raises $100.85 to $128.85 and is all-in
journey075: calls $101 and is all-in

I might lay it down there if he likes playing Ax (or Axs). Could still be a semibluff though.

since its a raised pot, its virtually impossible someone flopped the straight.

You're up against overpairs. This is an easy call.

Originally Posted by Renton

since its a raised pot, its virtually impossible someone flopped the straight.

You're up against overpairs. This is an easy call.

A4 would be a bitch but, yeah, call.

Edit: rethink...this screams set, probably 5s.

I'd be more worried about 55 or 33 here, especially since the guy going AI limped and called. He doesn't have a straight.

Since I'm not invested after the flop yet and its bet, raise all-in and with action left behind, I would fold here. I'm not saying that's the right play just probably what I do. Then I probably kick myself for folding the best hand after I see them being stupid.

Would be a nice fold. It's 33/55/54 if he's a decent player (big assumption).

I call, I don't think it's an overset.

Could be, but why's he pushing? He can't be that scared of a four...

Locomotives might have one, but most people don't like to lead them either.

Both lines are odd considering preflop plays.

What'cha know about the other 2 guys?

I can see laying this down.

Originally Posted by Fnord

I can see laying this down.

I can see it also...I did the other day, and two opponents both showed oversets. I had feared a straight though. Pot wasn't raised, however...

set over set is an unfortunate catastrophe that you have to really know your player to anticipate.

Even the high-stakes superstars with the deepest 500bb stacks, typically go broke with undersets.

Originally Posted by Renton

Even the high-stakes superstars with the deepest 500bb stacks, typically go broke with undersets.

Super System 2, page 595

Doyle talks about folding bottom set in an unraised pot.

Also, consider that the PS100 is quite often a rather weak/passive game.

resultttttttttttssssssssssssss:

journey075: calls $101 and is all-in
redargoe said, "well this is simple"
redargoe: folds
locomotives: calls $80.15 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [5c 3h 2s] [Qd]
*** RIVER *** [5c 3h 2s Qd] [Qs]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
locomotives: shows [3c 3d] (a full house, Threes full of Queens)
kevstarr: shows [Ah 4h] (a straight, Ace to Five)
locomotives collected $14.30 from side pot
journey075: mucks hand
locomotives collected $326 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $343.30 Main pot $326. Side pot $14.30. | Rake $3
Board [5c 3h 2s Qd Qs]
Seat 1: SXICHIN (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: mightyducky folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: 777XXX777 folded on the Flop
Seat 4: khb99 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: kevstarr showed [Ah 4h] and lost with a straight, Ace to Five
Seat 6: journey075 mucked [2h 2d]
Seat 7: Outsmarted folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: redargoe (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: locomotives (small blind) showed [3c 3d] and won ($340.30) with a full house, Threes full of Queens

Originally Posted by Fnord

Originally Posted by Renton

Even the high-stakes superstars with the deepest 500bb stacks, typically go broke with undersets.

Super System 2, page 595

Doyle talks about folding bottom set in an unraised pot.

Also, consider that the PS100 is quite often a rather weak/passive game.

on High Stakes poker, there was a set under set situation, and someone got stacked. It was that really douch-ey looking dude and I can't think of his name (white guy with brown hair, bad haircut, looks like some company executive).

In this case there was also a wheel on the board, and he still called the all-in.

Ted Forrest got stacked with 222 vs 555. The guy in question was the gynacologist (sp?).

set over set is an unfortunate catastrophe that you have to really know your player to anticipate.

Even the high-stakes superstars with the deepest 500bb stacks, typically go broke with undersets.

got any HH's?

Admittingly, I have very little experience playing with effective stacks at 500bb. Playing ducks this deep though is a terrible reverse implied odds situation. Lets just say if you have 22 and your hand is less then quads when 1000bb goes into the middle, you are beat.

Journey,

got any reads on the two players showing tremendous strength in front of you? Against the right villain(s), I can find a fold here. With a 25bb pot on the flop and stacks the way they are though, default should be call. A4 isn't a big concern in a raised pot, and you are only about a 2:1 dog to boot, and without doing any math or rereading, you are probably getting close to 2:1 anyway. Maybe 3:2ish. 33 and 55 are big concerns, but also realize that 44 has as many possible card combos as 33 and 55, and it's very likely a 44 would be played like this. Yeah, I think villain needs to be the right kind of timid, passive player to lay this down. No reads were given though.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Doyle talks about folding bottom set in an unraised pot

Good point, family pots are tricky.