playing draws fast

stacks: $130, NL100 full ring

solid, kinda taggy, somewhat predictable player opens MP. Forget the exact stats, but he was 20-25/5ish.. Ace with a face card and mid-high PP's are likely. I call SB with 8d9d. Flop ($8) Kd Td 6c. I lead for $6. He raises to $15. I make it $40 straight. Villain calls. Turn blanks. I push. I can easily play a set this way, but it's unlikely villain knows this.

Thoughts?

I like your play here, I might consider pushing on the flop instead of the raise to $40. Do you think that would've given away your play?

with 12 outs on the flop you're not a very big underdog to many hands, for example AK:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1575968
pokenum -h 9d 8d - ac kh -- kd td 6c
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 6c Kd Td
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
9d 8d 469 47.37 521 52.63 0 0.00 0.474
Ac Kh 521 52.63 469 47.37 0 0.00 0.526

If you play it passively you'll pay to draw, he'll fold if you hit your flush and bet big, and your folding equity is 0, and it dosn't do much for your table image. You also may not have the pot odds to call the turn after getting such a great flop.

Playing the hand aggressively guarantees that you'll double up or stack your opponent when you win (if they call) . You have alot of folding equity playing aggressively, it's also good for your table image.

i like it, but i dont feel like its the best line. given flop action, turn push is a must.

I made a similar post last week:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=29665

Snapping off the 2nd nuts with a big draw:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

saw flop|saw showdown

MP1 ($6.55)
MP2 ($8.55)
Hero ($43.51)
CO ($5.95)
Button ($9.85)
SB ($9.40)
BB ($9.60)
UTG ($9.90)
UTG+1 ($9.47)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 6, 8. SB posts a blind of $0.05.
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.10, MP2 calls $0.10, Hero calls $0.10, 2 folds, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.50) 6, 5, 4 (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.5, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 folds, Hero raises to $2, SB folds, BB raises to $5.5, MP1 folds, Hero calls $3.50.

Turn: ($12) 7 (2 players)
BB calls $4 (All-In), Hero calls $4.

River: ($20) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $20

Results in white below:
BB has 7h 3h (straight, seven high).
Hero has 6s 8s (straight flush, eight high).
Outcome: Hero wins $20.
How much action would I get on the turn if I had just called the flop? The turn card was a sick card for his hand but he was already pot commited because of my flop raise.

If you think giving the 2nd nuts this much action on the flop is reckless check out these stats:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1581790
pokenum -h 7h 3h - 6s 8s -- 6d 5s 4s
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 5s 4s 6d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
7h 3h 533 53.84 451 45.56 6 0.61 0.541
8s 6s 451 45.56 533 53.84 6 0.61 0.459

Originally Posted by Lukie

solid, kinda taggy, somewhat predictable player opens MP. Ace with a face card and mid-high PP's are likely.

Lukie, if that is the hand range you assign to this guy, I don't see how you can justify the preflop call. Your position sucks, and the stacks aren't deep enough to call this. Anyway, about the hand, I don't like trying to push players off TPTK or an overpair without either a monster draw (OESFD) or a very good read. I think the turn push is standard once you 3-bet the flop like you did. Do you think you will get paid off if you c/c the flop and hit your flush? What is your range for c/c'ing a c-bet?

Also, just IMO, your FE is significanly lower on this type of board than say a Ts6d3d board for example, and that should be factored in when you make your decision on how fast/slow you want to play your draw.

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

Originally Posted by Lukie

solid, kinda taggy, somewhat predictable player opens MP. Ace with a face card and mid-high PP's are likely.

Lukie, if that is the hand range you assign to this guy, I don't see how you can justify the preflop call. Your position sucks, and the stacks aren't deep enough to call this. Anyway, about the hand, I don't like trying to push players off TPTK or an overpair without either a monster draw (OESFD) or a very good read. I think the turn push is standard once you 3-bet the flop like you did. Do you think you will get paid off if you c/c the flop and hit your flush? What is your range for c/c'ing a c-bet?

Also, just IMO, your FE is significanly lower on this type of board than say a Ts6d3d board for example, and that should be factored in when you make your decision on how fast/slow you want to play your draw.

Lukie, if that is the hand range you assign to this guy, I don't see how you can justify the preflop call. Your position sucks, and the stacks aren't deep enough to call this.

agreed, OTB this may change though.

Do you think you will get paid off if you c/c the flop and hit your flush?

I probably won't be given anywhere near proper odds to draw to it, and if I do hit, being OOP, probably not. Villain doesn't seem to get too tangled up in big pots to my recollection.

What is your range for c/c'ing a c-bet?

not big, I generally prefer to c/r or lead as opposed to c/c. check/call + check earns/saves me a LOT of money when I'm in position, so when I'm out of position, I try to avoid that line as much as possible.

Based on preflop and flop action, I thought AK was a good possibility, and certainly the most likely. AA, KKK, TTT also possibilties. I'd think he folds worse then TPTK and pushes a monster RF draw. Anyway, I raised to $40 on the flop so I had one powerful PSB that I felt could get rid of most, if not all 1-pair type hands. I didn't think this villain was stacking off with TPTK, although I've seen much crazier things when I thought I had similar reads. I push a blank, off-suit 2, he goes into the tank and folds with about 2 seconds left, saying he had AK.

NH sir. Metagame rules! Did you show?