Possibility of Folding KK?

.25/.5 NL Full Ring. Early position and you get KK. You raise 3x - 4x the BB. Player in middle position reraises to $6. It folds around to the button who then reraises $24 more. Is this a snap push or is there a possibility of folding in any way. How about with QQ?

Keep in mind:
All players have $50 stacks
Players are playing tight aggressive.

You can fold QQ here, not sure about KK it depends what reads/stats you have.

i dont have the habit of laying down KK unless the button is an uber nit like 8/6,7/5 or 6/4 stats over a large sample size.

Don't fold here, I'm not one of the players that says never fold KK preflop, but button's raise is somewhat likely to be with a wider range than just AA because he's on the button and the raise is so huge. Player in MP could have AA too but there's no reason to think that his range isn't wider than that. You don't have to snap shove though, you can hollywood for a little bit since the only hand better than yours will call no matter what. QQ is a fold imo.

why would we fold when the flop is gonna come K high?

it depends.

I folded KK today PF. I still feel dirty

Raised UTG 3.5x

UTG+2 3b 10/6 with a 1% 3b

I cried alittle inside.

shove to fold out a chop

Originally Posted by Bbickes

I folded KK today PF. I still feel dirty

Raised UTG 3.5x

UTG+2 3b 10/6 with a 1% 3b

I cried alittle inside.

huh? Its not a big mistake IMO. I folded KK Vs uber nits in these situations a few times and still felt OK.

you do realize 1% is QQ+?

yeah but that includes lp battles obv his UTG+2 3b % is not going to be the same.

As Harrington would say, when you have KK, someone has AA only 1 in 24 times...very difficult to make reads this accurately when people bet a lot of funny ways. I side with Action Dan and maybe fold them 1/1000. Even Daniel Negreanu put a video on PokerVT recently where he said he had a perfect read on villain and made the huge lay down of KK pre-flop. He then laughed and said the guy showed him QQ. Now that was tournament and not cash but you have to be right so many times that I personally think it is more profitable not to fold them pre.

Originally Posted by Bbickes

I folded KK today PF. I still feel dirty

Raised UTG 3.5x

UTG+2 3b 10/6 with a 1% 3b

I cried alittle inside.

i wish villain flipped over seven doo-ey. you'd really've been crying then

in all seriousness, what sample size did you have to make such a read-dependent laydown? i'd assume at least like 500 hands or something?

Originally Posted by FriskyPirate

you have to be right so many times that I personally think it is more profitable not to fold them pre.

"you have to be right" is closer to 50% of the time.
I've folded KK 7 times preflop. 3 times I did not see villains hand, the other 4 times villain ultimately showed hand, each time holding AA. So I never feel dirty letting them go because I can soul read.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

why would we fold when the flop is gonna come K high?

this.

I've folded KK preflop a few times this year, and have been satisfied with the decision each time.

Folding sets on the flop is a much less explored activity.

I have never folded KK preflop and all the times where I thought it would be right, I was correct about 50% so I will still never do it

Never fold KK preflop unless the opponent shows you aces or runs around screaming i got aa like phil hellmuth and annie duke did in a live tourney