Routine?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP2 ($26.15)
MP3 ($33.66)
CO ($30.87)
Button ($29.15)
SB ($16.66)
BB ($24.50)
UTG ($5.84)
UTG+1 ($26.25)
UTG+2 ($5.88)
Hero ($24.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J, J. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
3 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, MP2 calls $1.25, 2 folds, Button calls $1.25, SB (poster) raises to $2.15, 1 fold, Hero calls $1, MP2 calls $1, Button calls $1.

Flop: ($9.25) 9, T, 3 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5, MP2 folds, Button folds, SB calls $5.

Turn: ($19.25) 6 (2 players)SB bets all-in,Hero folds.

Final Pot: $19.25


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG ($23.90)
UTG+1 ($32.40)
UTG+2 ($29.87)
MP1 ($15.65)
MP2 ($28.76)
MP3 ($24.15)
CO ($3.24)
Button ($25.90)
SB ($19.74)
Hero ($25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, T. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.25, 1 fold, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold, SB (poster) completes, Hero raises to $1.75, UTG+1 calls $1.75, MP2 folds, CO folds, SB calls $1.75.

Flop: ($6.50) 2, 8, 5 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5, UTG+1 folds, SB folds.

Final Pot: $11.50

hand 1 I play the same way in most situations

Hand 2 I dont like putting myself in a situation where I'm going to have to put extra chips in OOP with a hand as weak as ATo...You're to likely to get action if you flop a pair which isnt going to be strong enough OOP...AND you arent going to be able to rep the flop and take it down enough. I can only see doing this MAYBE on a super fold prone table. Otherwise it's going to cost you money in the long run.

PK

Hand 1 is fine. Hand 2 is terrible. Stick to ABC poker at 25NL.

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

Hand 1 is fine. Hand 2 is terrible. Stick to ABC poker at 25NL.

What was so tricky about hand 2?

I sensed obvious weakness at the table. Presumably I was ahead, or coinflipping with small pairs.

Flop was relatively harmless. I figure A high is ahead, and take my chances that I am not up against a spiked set. If I get played back at or called, I assume I am against a set, and I fold whether and A or a T comes on Fourth Street or not.

I think in this particular case, my steal would have werked more than not.

Originally Posted by Renton

What was so tricky about hand 2?

Easy to trap yourself second best there and pay-off the max.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Originally Posted by Renton

What was so tricky about hand 2?

Easy to trap yourself second best there and pay-off the max.

Are you implying that someone may have limped AJ+?

Originally Posted by Renton

Are you implying that someone may have limped AJ+?

Nope. Stop thinking like a limit player.

On the flop who has the best hand really doesn't matter. It's more a matter of who's willing to continue against your aggression.

Hand 1 is good.

Hand 2 I don't like raising AT or AJ in the BB. I feel that I'm better off to raise 72o on the button. When I feel like that, I don't raise OOP.

What Fnord said. Also, AJ/AQ is certainly possible, but it is not really the main problem with raising a hand like ATo out of the BB. Fishes will call you with all sorts of crap, and when they see a flop like that they refuse to believe you have a high PP and call you down with any pair since "it beats AK." That's why the way to beat these fishes is to value bet the piss out of them with made hands and punish them for calling down with crap, not to muscle them out of pots with nothing.

But regardless, playing ATo the way you did against multiple limpers is a bad play, doesn't matter if you're playing 25NL or 2kNL. You are creating a big pot OOP with a very weak and easily dominated hand.

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

That's why the way to beat these fishes is to value bet the piss out of them with made hands and punish them for calling down with crap, not to muscle them out of pots with nothing.

I value bet the shit out of them AND muscle them out of pots when we both have nothing. Me play bad...

Originally Posted by Fnord

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

That's why the way to beat these fishes is to value bet the piss out of them with made hands and punish them for calling down with crap, not to muscle them out of pots with nothing.

I value bet the shit out of them AND muscle them ouf of pots when we both have nothing. Me play bad...

Hand #2 is standard play for me as well. Take down small to medium sized pots with it all the time. Lose a pot every now and then. Leads to the swings I mentioned in another post, but you'd be surprised how many guys at this limit can't take the second barrel you fire as long as both barrels are painful to them. Problem then becomes the ones that are bulletproof...

But I would say I take down more pots this way than I lose, and against mulitple callers, I play with more caution....FWIW....

Questions on hand one for Renton and the experts here.

Have you seen villian make moves like this? Any reads?

He is putting $9 into a $19 pot. at 3:1 on you money and betting closed, can you put him on AK often enough to make it a +EV call?

I think you should elaborate on the situation. Is villain c-betting on a checked flop heads=up?

I play bad...

POKERSTARS GAME #4069216386: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/02/23 - 03:40:43 (ET)
Table 'Virgo V' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: hung_420 ($41.40 in chips)
Seat 2: Fnord ($99 in chips)
Seat 3: princebalf ($74.70 in chips)
Seat 4: Tenkay ($64.95 in chips)
Seat 5: 19ford79 ($12.85 in chips)
Seat 6: MoneyG2000 ($99 in chips)
Seat 7: Lukie ($99 in chips)
Seat 8: CordeleRele ($143.70 in chips)
Seat 9: jacob_BU ($20 in chips)
hung_420: posts small blind $0.50
Lukie said, "$300"
Fnord: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Fnord [Ah Qh]
Lukie said, "2 weeks"
princebalf: calls $1
Lukie said, "i got a few buyins"
Tenkay: folds
19ford79: calls $1
MoneyG2000: folds
Lukie: folds
CordeleRele: calls $1
jacob_BU: folds
hung_420: calls $0.50
Fnord: raises $7 to $8
princebalf: calls $7
19ford79: folds
CordeleRele: folds
hung_420: folds
*** FLOP *** [9d 4c 4h]
Fnord: bets $12
princebalf said, "i have pockets, do you also?"
princebalf said, "or is this an ak-"
princebalf: folds
Fnord collected $18.05 from pot
Fnord: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $19 | Rake $0.95
Board [9d 4c 4h]
Seat 1: hung_420 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Fnord (big blind) collected ($18.05)
Seat 3: princebalf folded on the Flop
Seat 4: Tenkay folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: 19ford79 folded before Flop
Seat 6: MoneyG2000 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Lukie folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: CordeleRele folded before Flop
Seat 9: jacob_BU (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Lukie said, "show that bluff fnord!!"
princebalf said, "bluff or not ace was coming on river"
Lukie said, "yeah especially on riverstars"
Fnord said, "Medium pair Prince?"
princebalf said, "ya"
Fnord said, "Good laydown"

POKERSTARS GAME #4069307970: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/02/23 - 04:04:28 (ET)
Table 'Virgo V' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: hung_420 ($29.60 in chips)
Seat 2: Fnord ($108.40 in chips)
Seat 3: princebalf ($28.25 in chips)
Seat 4: rhey73 ($10.45 in chips)
Seat 5: supersta22 ($100.90 in chips)
Seat 6: MoneyG2000 ($100 in chips)
Seat 7: Lukie ($188.30 in chips)
Seat 8: CordeleRele ($129.65 in chips)
Seat 9: jacob_BU ($20.50 in chips)
hung_420: posts small blind $0.50
Fnord: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Fnord [4c 3c]
princebalf said, "see didnt i draise preflop?"
princebalf: calls $1
rhey73: folds
supersta22: calls $1
MoneyG2000: calls $1
Lukie: calls $1
CordeleRele: folds
jacob_BU: folds
hung_420: calls $0.50
Fnord: checks
*** FLOP *** [Jd 4h 4d]
hung_420: checks
Fnord: bets $4
princebalf said, "and got called not by 1 but 2 bad hands"
princebalf: calls $4
supersta22: folds
MoneyG2000: folds
Lukie: calls $4
hung_420: folds
*** TURN *** [Jd 4h 4d] [6s]
Fnord: bets $12
princebalf: calls $12
Lukie: folds
*** RIVER *** [Jd 4h 4d 6s] [8s]
Fnord: bets $12
princebalf: calls $11.25 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Fnord: shows [4c 3c] (three of a kind, Fours)
princebalf: mucks hand
Fnord collected $61.50 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $64.50 | Rake $3
Board [Jd 4h 4d 6s 8s]
Seat 1: hung_420 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: Fnord (big blind) showed [4c 3c] and won ($61.50) with three of a kind, Fours
Seat 3: princebalf mucked [Ad 2d]
Seat 4: rhey73 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: supersta22 folded on the Flop
Seat 6: MoneyG2000 folded on the Flop
Seat 7: Lukie folded on the Turn
Seat 8: CordeleRele folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: jacob_BU (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

POKERSTARS GAME #4069391132: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/02/23 - 04:29:17 (ET)
Table 'Virgo V' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 2: Fnord ($133.90 in chips)
Seat 3: princebalf ($33.45 in chips)
Seat 5: supersta22 ($88.55 in chips)
Seat 6: MoneyG2000 ($70.80 in chips)
Seat 7: Lukie ($225.45 in chips)
Seat 8: king_jordan6 ($45.15 in chips)
Seat 9: jacob_BU ($25.65 in chips)
lojick will be allowed to play after the button
Fnord: posts small blind $0.50
princebalf: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Fnord [Jd Qd]
supersta22: folds
MoneyG2000: folds
Lukie: folds
king_jordan6: folds
jacob_BU: folds
Fnord: raises $2 to $3
princebalf: calls $2
*** FLOP *** [4d 6c 5d]
Fnord: bets $4
princebalf: calls $4
*** TURN *** [4d 6c 5d] [Kh]
Fnord: checks
princebalf: checks
*** RIVER *** [4d 6c 5d Kh] [9d]
Fnord: bets $27
princebalf: calls $26.45 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Fnord: shows [Jd Qd] (a flush, Queen high)
princebalf: mucks hand
Fnord collected $63.90 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $66.90 | Rake $3
Board [4d 6c 5d Kh 9d]
Seat 2: Fnord (small blind) showed [Jd Qd] and won ($63.90) with a flush, Queen high
Seat 3: princebalf (big blind) mucked [7c 9h]
Seat 5: supersta22 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: MoneyG2000 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Lukie folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: king_jordan6 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: jacob_BU (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Might I ask, Fnord, what pertinence these hands have to the topic (other than to placate your mastodonic ego )

Originally Posted by Renton

Might I ask, Fnord, what pertinence these hands have to the topic (other than to placate your mastodonic ego )

Raising out of position setting up some nasty value bets.

Oh.


Touche.