should I of called?

I was soo tempted to call it, but i figured it was too early in the tournament to risk it.


*********** # 1 **************
PokerStars Game #687313090: Tournament #2653700, Hold'em No Limit - Level II
(15/30) - 2004/09/12 - 21:59:40 (ET)
Table '2653700 1' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Qontheriver (1640 in chips)
Seat 2: noshot91 (1850 in chips)
Seat 3: PokeyPuppy (1370 in chips)
Seat 4: Bamaboy78 (1180 in chips)
Seat 5: tenandtwo (1460 in chips)
Seat 6: ekoury (380 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 7: mushrateer (1900 in chips)
Seat 8: shotz69 (1810 in chips)
Seat 9: LilMermaid1 (1910 in chips)
PokeyPuppy: posts small blind 15
Bamaboy78: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shotz69 [Qc Kc]
tenandtwo: calls 30
ekoury: folds
mushrateer: folds
shotz69: raises 90 to 120
LilMermaid1: calls 120
Qontheriver: folds
noshot91: folds
PokeyPuppy: folds
Bamaboy78: calls 90
tenandtwo: raises 1340 to 1460 and is all-in
shotz69: folds
LilMermaid1: calls 1340
Bamaboy78: folds
*** FLOP *** [8c Qd 9c]
*** TURN *** [8c Qd 9c] [Ts]
*** RIVER *** [8c Qd 9c Ts] [Jh]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
tenandtwo: shows [Qh Jd] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
LilMermaid1: shows [7c 7d] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
tenandtwo collected 1588 from pot
LilMermaid1 collected 1587 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3175 | Rake 0
Board [8c Qd 9c Ts Jh]
Seat 1: Qontheriver folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: noshot91 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: PokeyPuppy (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Bamaboy78 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: tenandtwo showed [Qh Jd] and won (1588) with a straight, Eight to Queen
Seat 6: ekoury folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: mushrateer folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: shotz69 folded before Flop
Seat 9: LilMermaid1 showed [7c 7d] and won (1587) with a straight, Eight to
Queen

Good fold. I hope you took notes when you saw the play he made...

yeah I figured folding was the right move. What sux is I couldnt even take advantage of him he was out 2 hands later O well still playing down to 6 people and I am 2nd in chips.

...which is why I like cash games...

Why did you raise preflop with KQc? I wouldn't have raised because it's almost a drawing hand and I would have to fold to a reraise fearing domination. By not raising you can still call a raise and hope to hit two pair/str8/flush on flop or outplay them postflop. But raising preflop with a hand that you wouldn't be comfortable going all in with is a questionable move, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Iconoclastic

Why did you raise preflop with KQc? I wouldn't have raised because it's almost a drawing hand and I would have to fold to a reraise fearing domination.

I feel that you are completely wrong, in my opinion. You need to raise with KQ to get a feel for what others have, be it a re-raise, a call, or a fold. By not betting you have no idea what your up against. Your argument also states that I should not raise AKs because it is a drawing hand? One point I do agree with is that you should fold to a big re-raise most certainly with KQo. A possible call would be logical for KQs.

Originally Posted by Iconoclastic

By not raising you can still call a raise and hope to hit two pair/str8/flush on flop or outplay them postflop.

Why call a raise, when you can be the raiser and make them be the caller? If they raise you big you know where they stand in hand ranking. Being the raiser is usually a good thing. (Also, with KQo, I certainly hope you don't hope to catch a flush...)

Originally Posted by Iconoclastic

But raising preflop with a hand that you wouldn't be comfortable going all in with is a questionable move, in my opinion.

This statement is wise for LATE tourney play. (3 people or less) Otherwise this logic is simply flawed. You're also saying that I shouldn't raise QQ-99. I feel you have to raise these, but I certainly wouldn't want to go all in with these preflop. Your logic only works for 2 hands in this game. AA and KK. If anyone played that tight they wouldn't be a good poker player!!

That's my 2 chips. Err, cents.

allLiving It was KQs not off

Iconoclastic as you say KQs is pretty much a drawing hand, so all the more reason to raise. You need to get out limpers, and a bet of 4x BB gets rid of most of them even ones that may be equal or better than mine. Say you were one of the blinds and you had an A and a rag what would you do if everyone limped in, you most likely would limp in also and see the flop. Where me betting 4x BB you most likely would fold. If the flop comes Axx and I allowed you to limp in I would now be a dog to someone that should of been folded. Also betting 4x BB in early position will most likely chase out low pairs as well.

Also as allLiving said "Why call a raise, when you can be the raiser and make them be the caller?"

It was the all in that made me fold, if it was just a re raise I would of called it and seen the flop.

I can not even count the amount of times I bet preflop only to miss the flop but still followed it up with a bet anyway and had the table fold to me. Of course that works best on rag flops so everyone puts you on trips