Standard?

Good, bad or ugly?

This guy was overbetting alot of pots.. After raises and re raises. And then to top it .. Other homeboy called. We are good here right?

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $15.28
UTG+1: $32.84
UTG+2: $36.15
MP1: $47.74
MP2: $3.40
MP3: $2.89
CO: $31.09
Hero: $22.95
SB: $23.30
BB: $47.76

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is Button with A A
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $0.5, 4 folds, CO calls, Hero raises to $1.25, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: T 9 7 ($4.1, 3 players)
UTG+1 bets $5, CO calls, Hero raises all-in $21.7.

I HATE min raisers! For that reason I make this $3preflop.

Then gambooooooool?? :P

I hatem too, I was hoping my re raise even to 1.25 would keep one in and thats it.. And then that overbet told me something, I waited for other dude to call .. At the time.. These guys leave me no choice. I dunno.. I think by calling 5 bucks three way could have been ok and then pushed the turn given the guy who overbet first should the middle guy just call.

You only *wanted* one dude to call.. preflop?

Each of these dudes only has to call 0.75 to see the flop.
When the first dude calls, it makes it that much easier for the second dude to call.

Your "reraise" really is not a reraise to me (althought TECHNICALLY it is). This looks like a standard raise [assuming no one had minraised preflop]--> and that's why I make it $3 preflop.

Originally Posted by sunfunbunch

You only *wanted* one dude to call.. preflop?

Each of these dudes only has to call 0.75 to see the flop.
When the first dude calls, it makes it that much easier for the second dude to call.

I dont like min raises , sometimes they actually mean something though. Thats why I would have preferred one person in this hand. I mean Im not scared, I have A A ... However for extraction I think I prefer one in this hand given the PF action. 3 dollars = fold, fold.
To me-
2X the BB raise = Maybe a big hand.
A call of 2 X BB = I dont know .. sure lets see it
A re raise and then a call from the initial raiser= I still like my hand.
A call for the other dude = I will flop shit and take them for their chips.

Ok--lets forget the minraises right now. Let me ask you this way:

A)If TWO people limped this pot, what would you raise have been then?

B)If instead of minraising, villian raised MORE and and then one player called what's your move on the button?

The way you played it looks more like scenario A. Your raise looks like a 'standard raise' vs two limpers.

If you think villian raised with a good hand, then I think this hand needs to be treated like scenario B, where you'd put more of a healthy reraise.

"extracting chips" is not a tangible thing, what does that mean? think harder about why exactly are you minraising. its because they're more likely to call a minraise than a bigger raise, "more action". but why is someone willing to call a minraise but not a 3x or 4x raise? because it is cheaper for them to suckout! What benefits does it have for you? hmm, well you get less money into the pot than if they called a bigger raise, you let them get to the flop with a wider hand range, and make it cheaper for them to suckout? hmm....

anyway, raise to at least 2 maybe 3 preflop, flop push is fine.

Originally Posted by Greedo017

"extracting chips" is not a tangible thing, what does that mean? think harder about why exactly are you minraising. its because they're more likely to call a minraise than a bigger raise, "more action". but why is someone willing to call a minraise but not a 3x or 4x raise? because it is cheaper for them to suckout! What benefits does it have for you? hmm, well you get less money into the pot than if they called a bigger raise, you let them get to the flop with a wider hand range, and make it cheaper for them to suckout? hmm....

anyway, raise to at least 2 maybe 3 preflop, flop push is fine.

MAGNIFICO!!!

Originally Posted by sunfunbunch

B)If instead of minraising, villian raised MORE and and then one player called what's your move on the button?

Re raise 3-4 bucks.

Against 2 limpers. I raise 1.25 .

Originally Posted by Greedo017

"extracting chips" is not a tangible thing, what does that mean? think harder about why exactly are you minraising. its because they're more likely to call a minraise than a bigger raise, "more action". but why is someone willing to call a minraise but not a 3x or 4x raise? because it is cheaper for them to suckout! What benefits does it have for you? hmm, well you get less money into the pot than if they called a bigger raise, you let them get to the flop with a wider hand range, and make it cheaper for them to suckout? hmm....

anyway, raise to at least 2 maybe 3 preflop, flop push is fine.

Very well put and great advice. Im not mim raising either. To me extracting chips means to get the most out of your opponents with the best hand to their second best hand. In ring the only way you will get paid off is if your opponent has some sort of hand. Anything suited is going to attempt to suck me out. Here is where we can probably agree or disagree.

I dont think about amounts- I think about actions and the stories people are telling. A raise, a call , then a re raise (whatever amount it is). Thats tangible. A re raise tells me K K , A A , or another monster kinda hand. If you would like to suck me out with whatever UNPREMIUM hand your playing with because it cant be that great to raise a quarter, and the callers cant be that great for a quarter then I welcome all those who would like to get in the hand. I am concentrating on playing post flop and the turn and river. Thats where you get paid. Raise C bet , everyone folds doesnt bring home the bacon. Since I know there is only 2 opponents, well its not that bad. After the flop Iam still sitting at about 73%. Does my hand not reap of A A or K K should I raise it up to 3-4 bucks? What is a suck out anyways? Just because I give someone odds to get in the hand PF? Or is a suck out when I give them incorrect odds when I push that flop? I cant say I play this way everytime. If it had been a standard 4X the BB raise, it would have been 3 to go. If I didnt have the Ace of hearts I could easily let this go. I understand what you are saying in general.

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 74.4845 % 74.01% 00.47% { AhAs }
Hand 2: 09.4447 % 08.70% 00.74% { random }
Hand 3: 16.0708 % 15.31% 00.76% { random }

Just so we all know -


#Game No : 4188274842
***** Hand History for Game 4188274842 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, May 05, 00:03:08 ET 2006
Table Just Hafta (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: sdmarco ( $46.50 )
Seat 3: oneloudogg ( $20.90 )
Seat 8: B_Walk_8 ( $13.05 )
Seat 9: fasin8ing1 ( $27 )
Seat 1: MAKE_U_FOLD_ ( $16.50 )
Seat 7: eezzmark ( $19.08 )
Seat 4: jeffarra ( $17.44 )
Seat 5: onlyplayAA ( $10.95 )
Seat 10: highcard_420 ( $8.52 )
Seat 6: SnoopFrogg3 ( $27.20 )
B_Walk_8 posts small blind [$0.10].
fasin8ing1 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to fasin8ing1 [ Ac Ah ]
highcard_420 folds.
MAKE_U_FOLD_ folds.
sdmarco calls [$0.25].
jeffarra folds.
onlyplayAA raises [$1].
SnoopFrogg3 folds.
eezzmark folds.
B_Walk_8 folds.
fasin8ing1 raises [$4].
sdmarco folds.
onlyplayAA calls [$3].

And then there are times when you should maybe just try extracting chips and not worry about PF. Like this time. Why raise with one person with 5 bucks left in the hand. I know if he pairs a hole card he will go ape shit. I dont recommend this against more than one opponent that has more than 5 bucks and just took a bad beat.

#Game No : 4188367979
***** Hand History for Game 4188367979 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, May 05, 00:12:43 ET 2006
Table Just Hafta (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 2: sdmarco ( $43.85 )
Seat 3: oneloudogg ( $25.15 )
Seat 8: B_Walk_8 ( $11.45 )
Seat 9: fasin8ing1 ( $31.63 )
Seat 1: MAKE_U_FOLD_ ( $5.67 )
Seat 4: jeffarra ( $15.59 )
Seat 5: onlyplayAA ( $20.10 )
Seat 6: SnoopFrogg3 ( $21.18 )
fasin8ing1 posts small blind [$0.10].
MAKE_U_FOLD_ posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to fasin8ing1 [ Ah Ac ]
jeffarra folds.
onlyplayAA folds.
SnoopFrogg3 folds.
B_Walk_8 folds.
fasin8ing1 calls [$0.15].
MAKE_U_FOLD_ checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2c, 5c, 4s ]
fasin8ing1 checks.
jp1a1 has joined the table.
MAKE_U_FOLD_ bets [$1].
fasin8ing1 raises [$3].
MAKE_U_FOLD_ raises [$4].
fasin8ing1 raises [$4].
MAKE_U_FOLD_ is all-In [$0.42]

Originally Posted by fasin8ing

Originally Posted by sunfunbunch

B)If instead of minraising, villian raised MORE and and then one player called what's your move on the button?

Re raise 3-4 bucks.

Against 2 limpers. I raise 1.25 .

Yeppers!!! But you see.. there were NOT two limpers in this hand.


This is why my original advice was to raise to 3.
Greedo stated it very nicely.

Originally Posted by sunfunbunch

Yeppers!!! But you see.. there were NOT two limpers in this hand.


This is why my original advice was to raise to 3.
Greedo stated it very nicely.

So are you saying a raise of 50 cents is supposed to be some sort of aggression? I see both your points - When it was all showed down the min raise from UTG +1 had A 9 . Co went for a ride to with J Q. These mine aswell been limps. I dont disagree with you guys... I dont think I have ever been min raised when holding Aces... Different scenario than Iam used to seeing. Of course I wouldnt mind getting all my chips in PF , but thats not going to happen with a guy who raised a quarter and a guy who called a quarter.

Originally Posted by fasin8ing

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 74.4845 % 74.01% 00.47% { AhAs }
Hand 2: 09.4447 % 08.70% 00.74% { random }
Hand 3: 16.0708 % 15.31% 00.76% { random }]

You need to give your opponents some sort of a range... going against random hands like this really isn't showing much.

Originally Posted by fasin8ing

Originally Posted by sunfunbunch

B)If instead of minraising, villian raised MORE and and then one player called what's your move on the button?

Re raise 3-4 bucks.

Against 2 limpers. I raise 1.25 .

Ok,- I just wanted to add something else.
It's not whether the minraise was "aggression" but nonetheless there is MORE money in the pot now.

You said you'd raise to 1.25 with two limper.
Two limpers = 0.5pot ==> 1.25raise = A preflop raise that's 2.5X the pot.

One min raiser + callers = 1.0pot==>1.25raise = A raise of 1.25X the pot. I'd gladly try to suck out with these odds.
To make it "equal" to your standard : 1.0 x 2.5 = 2.5 preflop.

Thanks for letting me chime in.