Standard flopped str8?

Villain is 20/6.

***** Hand History for Game 4435430610 *****
$200 NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, June 03, 23:19:34 ET 2006
Table Table 107172 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: KeelansDad ( $303.94 )
Seat 3: Dear_Apollo ( $133 )
Seat 5: bspdoc ( $328.89 )
Seat 4: Beelzeboz0 ( $223.50 )
Seat 10: sweeta111 ( $354.80 )
Seat 9: ScottyC4U ( $131.05 )
Seat 7: Mbomike ( $110.45 )
Seat 6: TrickDaddymcc ( $94.23 )
Seat 2: Leonbel ( $84.75 )
Seat 8: mojo11000 ( $200 )
Dear_Apollo posts small blind [$1].
Beelzeboz0 posts big blind [$2].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Beelzeboz0 [ 5c 6h ]

bspdoc folds.
TrickDaddymcc folds.
Mbomike folds.
ScottyC4U folds.
sweeta111 folds.
KeelansDad raises [$7].
Leonbel calls [$7].
Dear_Apollo folds.
Beelzeboz0 calls [$5].

** Dealing Flop ** [ 2c, 4c, 3s ]

Beelzeboz0 bets [$15].
KeelansDad calls [$15].
Leonbel folds.

** Dealing Turn ** [ Tc ]

Beelzeboz0 bets [$32].
KeelansDad calls [$32].

** Dealing River ** [ 9d ]

Beelzeboz0 checks.
KeelansDad bets [$65.98].
Beelzeboz0 calls [$65.98].

check/call turn, blocking bet on river

preflop is gross

Is it really bad to make 3.5:1 calls with drawing hands oop like this?

I have been trying to open up my game a little, so I have been experimenting with hands like this.

Originally Posted by Renton

Is it really bad to make 3.5:1 calls with drawing hands oop like this?

I have been trying to open up my game a little, so I have been experimenting with hands like this.

they arent sooted!

Originally Posted by Renton

Is it really bad to make 3.5:1 calls with rags when i'm going to be the first to act on all streets

I have been trying to open up my game a little, so I have been experimenting with hands like this.

fyp, and yes.

effective stacks would have to be deep and villain really bad to justify the call for the most part, in my opinion.

as far as the actual hand, as played, I think the river is a check/fold. You only beat a bluff at this point, and I think it's really unlikely the way this hand was played. He likely checks behind most hands you beat.

Originally Posted by Lukie

as far as the actual hand, as played, I think the river is a check/fold. You only beat a bluff at this point, and I think it's really unlikely the way this hand was played. He likely checks behind most hands you beat.

I know it would seem pretty unusual, but do you rule out a set completely here? He might have called hoping to raise a nonscary turn, then when the turn fell he wanted to fill. When Hero checked the river, he might have sensed weakness/value bet his set? Do you always check/fold this river? Folding big hands is something that is still over my head.

I think I like Gabe's line the most in this situation.

The Charge: You're playing this way too weak.

Exhibit A:

Originally Posted by Renton

Villain is 20/6.

Exhibit B:

Originally Posted by Renton

Seat 1: KeelansDad ( $303.94 )
Seat 4: Beelzeboz0 ( $223.50 )
Beelzeboz0 posts big blind [$2].

Exhibit C:

Originally Posted by Renton

Total number of players : 10
KeelansDad raises [$7]. (from the CO)

Exhibit D:

Originally Posted by Renton

KeelansDad calls [$15].
KeelansDad calls [$32].

Verdict: Our hand effectivly is the nuts here, at 110bb deep I let the flush stack me. He's got an over-pair or set more often than not. I make him pay 3 bets show it down.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Verdict: Our hand effectivly is the nuts here, at 110bb deep I let the flush stack me. He's got an over-pair or set more often than not. I make him pay 3 bets show it down.

This was exactly what I was thinking... but the rest of the people besides Fnord think different...? =/

I just can't see any value in betting this river unless its a block bet.

I figured checking the river would induce a bet from a lot of lesser hands, like overpairs and 99/TT. And the nuts are going to be compelled to make a small value bet instead of trying to stack me (since I shut down so much on the river).

AJs+ is in the top 6 percent.

Originally Posted by Renton

AJs+ is in the top 6 percent.

..and it must match the board. Sorry, this sounds like the weak crap I see at the B&M when I see sets check behind flushing rivers.

Range of hands I put him on:
Over-pair: Wants to look you up, particulary if it has a big club.
Set & Over-pair turned/rivered set: Ditto. I doubt a set folds to a PSB.
Ax with a club: How often does he bet when checked to vs thinking he needs to take the pot from a pair? Does he even think about stealing pots?
2 Clubs (probably big ones): Good for you sir. We'll talk about this after he raises the river.

you're probably right

I am in the worst downswing i have ever been in, so in my tortured mind he had the nuts a large percentage of the time when he called that turn.

And he did.


I don't understand how bet/call elicits that much more value than check/call. If i bet, some lesser hands fold. If I check, some lesser hands bet. If he has the nuts, he pushes over my bet and I am pot committed so I call, or he value bets me when I check (as a set or maybe AA/KK would do.

Originally Posted by Renton

I don't understand how bet/call elicits that much more value than check/call.

I think you're good here a lot and he calls a PSB with a wide range of hands that are weaker than a flush. Checking makes a lot of the weaker hands check behind looking to showdown.

Originally Posted by Renton

If he has the nuts, he pushes over my bet and I am pot committed so I call

I'm open to a bet/fold line here, there is enough money behind. It depends on what you think of him.

i dont understand leading the turn, seems like you're giving him the opening to blow you off the hand.

With how it's played, i think you have the c/call the river, but I woulda tried a line with a blocking bet.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

i dont understand leading the turn, seems like you're giving him the opening to blow you off the hand.

what's the alternative?

check/calling unless you're prepared to make a big call if he tries to blow you off the hand with just the Ace of clubs.

After thinking about this hand some more, I think it's played well on all streets except preflop.

That said, I still think it's a pretty thin call on the river.



Fnord, (as far as felting it goes), where do you want to put more money in? Bet/call river? check/raise river?