Quote Originally Posted by Fnord
It's a break even call at best, more likely around a -$4-6ish of expectation. Unless you plan to play out of position without a set nor read sometimes. I did the math on this a looooong time ago. Use the search function. If you refute those findings we'll talk.
Alright, cool I submit. You reasoning makes sense.

Quote Originally Posted by Fnord
c/ring enough to pot-strike him has the same effect and is more likely to get called by a player who can't think ahead to the next street. Just shoving might spook him off.
Hmmm. I might disagree here. I find that situations when a player makes a bet that leaves either himself or yourself with something ridiculous like 1/5 your remaining stack are scarier than open pushing. Maybe that's just me though. The main thing is our intentions are the same thing.

Edit: I think your logic about not shoving would probably be more effictive against a fish than a thinking player. Correct?