Is this too weak - QQ $25NL

I've been frequently overplaying QQ, but now I'm not sure if I'm playing it too weak. Is this a definite fold? I'd probably call if the raise was smaller and I had position.

No reads.


Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.15/$0.25
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) flyingPenguin is UTG with Q Q
flyingPenguin raises to $1, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 5 folds.

Flop: 2 2 T ($3.4, 3 players)
flyingPenguin bets $1.5, UTG+1 raises to $4.5, MP2 folds, flyingPenguin folds.
Uncalled bets: $3 returned to UTG+1.

Results:
Final pot: $6.4

Um, yes, this is very weak. This is almost always a Ten raising you.

As played, I 3bet to $10-$11. If he calls, he PROBABLY has AT, KT, maybe TT (and is trying to hang you) and if he comes over the top all in, I give it up giving him credit for a 2. 3betting will tell you where you stand.

OK. So I reraise to something like $12. In this case effective stacks were $17, so that would have committed me. However with full stacks it's still about half the stack.

So in this case if he calls are you assuming you're ahead of a big enough percentage of his range to put all your chips in?

This is incredibly weak.

Almost no way he has a 2 here. I put him on any decent ten or even a mid pocket pair.

Re-raise it around $12, I have no problem committing my stack here.

He called your UTG raise from UTG+1, so it's unlikely he has a 2 in his hand. This is most likely a lower pocket pair or AT or something. I guess it's possible your beat by TT, 22 or a slowplayed AA, KK. But I'm willing to pay that off. This is a great flop for your hand, I'm felting this, especially with only $17 effective stacks.

I like a 3-bet on the flop here, or maybe just call and c/r all in on the turn, if you think he'll fire again,

ya just think about what he's calling your pfr with. usually the lower the pair on the board the less likely it is that villain holds trips.

I don't like 3betting the flop.

I bet more on the flop (prob 2.5), call a raise, and lead the turn. Theres no reason to try and stack anyone here.

Originally Posted by Renton

I don't like 3betting the flop.

I bet more on the flop (prob 2.5), call a raise, and lead the turn. Theres no reason to try and stack anyone here.

So after a bet of $2.50 and a raise to say...$6, the pot would be $15.40. Each would have $18 behind. So would you lead for like 8-10 or what? Do you fold to another raise only having ~$10 or less behind?

weak. i like calling here and either leading the turn or c/raising

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Originally Posted by Renton

I don't like 3betting the flop.

I bet more on the flop (prob 2.5), call a raise, and lead the turn. Theres no reason to try and stack anyone here.

So after a bet of $2.50 and a raise to say...$6, the pot would be $15.40. Each would have $18 behind. So would you lead for like 8-10 or what? Do you fold to another raise only having ~$10 or less behind?

probably not, but all I am saying is our hand isn't so strong that we should force a stacking to occur.

Decent points above.

If you have $17 and he has $17 and you are out of position, the flop is the point in the hand you want to take down the pot. Do you particularly want to play a big pot here?

If the answer is no, bet $3 (leaving you $13) and fold to a raise.
If the answer is yes, then bet $2, call raise and bomb any turn.

Your flop bet is 44% of the pot. I would interpret this as weakness if I were villain. With all that aside, put $8 back in your stack so you can avoid being easily committed in situations similar to this.

Super weak... considering you bet less than half the pot. hands that beat you: TT, x2, AA & KK. I think AA & KK reraise pf so that leaves TT and X2. Unless you have some type of read, i think i 3bet and try to get it All in. O and stack sizes?

Originally Posted by Setzy

With all that aside, put $8 back in your stack so you can avoid being easily committed in situations similar to this.

it could just be that villain had $17.

Thanks for the advice all.

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Originally Posted by Setzy

With all that aside, put $8 back in your stack so you can avoid being easily committed in situations similar to this.

it could just be that villain had $17.

That was the case. I had a full stack.

The reason I folded is that if I call here I've got no idea what's going on when I put more money in, which is going to happen. With stacks this size most likely all of it. If I raise definitely all of it. I wasn't willing to risk it at the time, so I folded. I'll work on that weakness.

Not sure why the small raise. Definitely crap and out of character.

Effective stacks are $17, duh..I must be blind. No worry then, just fine tune that betting and you're golden.

one line i've been seeing more and more ftr guys using is c/r AI on safe turn after being raised on the flop with an overpair.

He called your UTG raise from UTG+1, so it's unlikely he has a 2 in his hand. This is most likely a lower pocket pair or AT or something. I guess it's possible your beat by TT, 22 or a slowplayed AA, KK. But I'm willing to pay that off. This is a great flop for your hand, I'm felting this, especially with only $17 effective stacks.

Will villain raise that flop if he has 22 or even TT? IMO, Hero probably is ahead most of the time here.

Isn't the tendency to sucker you in until the turn with a big hand with that board? Like said above, the flop raise looks more like a weak hand, Tx or 33-99.

I'd also play for the $17 stacks with that read, and probably c/r turn or maybe lead turn lead river. The 3bet flop line probably folds these weak hands and there's no draws.

most of the time a 3x raise on the flop is going to be a xT or a pp lower than QQ. What I do is call the flop, check the turn and reevaluate (if an A or K comes I see how he reacts) and raise any bet from safe card.

Very weak. I don't mind the small flop bet because there are no draws and you would like everyone with a hand to follow along other than a deuce or AK. The fold to the raise makes no sense though because you bet small: repping a small hand. So, someone picked up on this and was like "yo guy, you are weak so take this raise!" Raise em back, I'd love to get it all in in these situations.

Another line could be to just call then raise on the turn and value a river.