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Top pair and flush draw on flop - suspect I'm behind

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  1. #1

    Default Top pair and flush draw on flop - suspect I'm behind

    In both these hand I'm up about quite strong players with top pair and a flush draw. I suspect I'm behind but I'm not sure. How should I play the hands?

    Hand 1:
    No Limit Holdem Ring game
    Blinds: $0.50/$1
    10 players

    Stack sizes:
    UTG: $111.25
    UTG+1: $296.50
    UTG+2: $116.25
    MP1: $146.75
    MP2: $31.75
    MP3: $37.25
    CO: $41.25
    Button: $99
    SB: $39.50
    Hero: $109

    Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is BB with
    7 folds, Button raises to $3.5, SB folds, Hero raises to $9, Button calls.

    Flop: ($18.5, 2 players)
    Hero bets $10, Button raises all-in $90, Hero
    Read button: SLAA (21.6/5.3)

    Hand 2:
    No Limit Holdem Ring game
    Blinds: $0.50/$1
    10 players

    Stack sizes:
    UTG: $144.50
    UTG+1: $102.50
    UTG+2: $29.38
    MP1: $54.75
    MP2: $222.50
    MP3: $58
    Hero: $94.25
    Button: $41.25
    SB: $266.62
    BB: $104

    Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is CO with
    6 folds, Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, BB calls.

    Flop: ($8.5, 2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets $8, BB raises to $24, Hero
    Read BB: TA (12.9/6.7)
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  2. #2
    Miffed22001's Avatar
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    1 is a call, im not folding aces there.
  3. #3
    1) if your stats are accurate it looks like he has KK/QQ/JJ/AK. Maybe KK pushes pre, maybe not. Since he's not likely to be playing 2 low diamonds, 2 extra outs vs. set.... even if he only pushes QQ with Qd here, you are still ahead ~40% of the time, and don't even need to hit your flush. Gotta call. I would likely fold without the Ad, though.

    2) looks like a set. Is he a NIT or could he be making a move? Call or fold, both pretty meh. I don't think a push over has fold equity, but since you win a show down AXd if no diamond hits, I think I just call and see what he does on the turn. He didn't raise quite enough to kill your implied odds. (you have to call 16 with 66 behind, almost 4:1 implied odds).
  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by zenbitz
    1) if your stats are accurate it looks like he has KK/QQ/JJ/AK. Maybe KK pushes pre, maybe not. Since he's not likely to be playing 2 low diamonds, 2 extra outs vs. set.... even if he only pushes QQ with Qd here, you are still ahead ~40% of the time, and don't even need to hit your flush. Gotta call. I would likely fold without the Ad, though.
    Thanks for the analysis. Against this oponent I might also fold AA here with no diamond. But he can make moves as well. It's a big push to call though...

    Quote Originally Posted by zenbitz
    2) looks like a set. Is he a NIT or could he be making a move? Call or fold, both pretty meh. I don't think a push over has fold equity, but since you win a show down AXd if no diamond hits, I think I just call and see what he does on the turn. He didn't raise quite enough to kill your implied odds. (you have to call 16 with 66 behind, almost 4:1 implied odds).
    Why would a push not be ok here? The oponent is very tight (12.9), but can lay down quite strong hands. I'm also not confident he would pay off a made flush on the turn, so the implied odds might not be there.
    'Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.'
  5. #5
    I'm never folding top pair and a flush draw ever on any flop, do something to get all the money in.
    Check out the new blog!!!
  6. #6
    I think a push in hand 2 is good, if you think he's check/raising with worse than a set, but not worse than TPGK (becuase him folding something like QJ or a worse f/d is bad). Since 2 pair hand on this board are quite unlikely, maybe a push is good.
  7. #7
    Hand 1: You do not have top pair with a flush draw...

    You have overpair with the nut flush draw- only thing that greatly screws you is a lower flush- he'd hafta have 9T diamonds to go for a steal on the button. Hmm. I call, he has a set at best, and there's a good chance he has Qd, or AK or some crap.
  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by bigslikk
    Hand 1: You do not have top pair with a flush draw...

    You have overpair with the nut flush draw- only thing that greatly screws you is a lower flush- he'd hafta have 9T diamonds to go for a steal on the button. Hmm. I call, he has a set at best, and there's a good chance he has Qd, or AK or some crap.
    You are right.
    'Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.'
  9. #9

    Default Re: Top pair and flush draw on flop - suspect I'm behind

    Here is how the two hands ended:

    Quote Originally Posted by Borax
    Hand 1:
    No Limit Holdem Ring game
    Blinds: $0.50/$1
    10 players

    Stack sizes:
    UTG: $111.25
    UTG+1: $296.50
    UTG+2: $116.25
    MP1: $146.75
    MP2: $31.75
    MP3: $37.25
    CO: $41.25
    Button: $99
    SB: $39.50
    Hero: $109

    Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is BB with
    7 folds, Button raises to $3.5, SB folds, Hero raises to $9, Button calls.

    Flop: ($18.5, 2 players)
    Hero bets $10, Button raises all-in $90, Hero
    Read button: SLAA (21.6/5.3)
    Hero calls.
    Turn: ($198.5, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $198.5)

    River: ($198.5, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $198.5)

    Results:
    Final pot: $198.5
    Button: shows (Three of a kind, Jacks, King high)
    Hero: shows (A Pair of Aces, King high)
    Button collected $195.50 from Main pot


    Hand 2:
    No Limit Holdem Ring game
    Blinds: $0.50/$1
    10 players

    Stack sizes:
    UTG: $144.50
    UTG+1: $102.50
    UTG+2: $29.38
    MP1: $54.75
    MP2: $222.50
    MP3: $58
    Hero: $94.25
    Button: $41.25
    SB: $266.62
    BB: $104

    Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is CO with
    6 folds, Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, BB calls.

    Flop: ($8.5, 2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets $8, BB raises to $24, Hero
    Read BB: TA (12.9/6.7)
    Hero raises all-in $90.25, BB calls.

    Turn: ($189, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $189)

    River: ($189, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $189)

    Results:
    Final pot: $189
    Hero: shows (Three of a kind, Queens, King high)
    BB: shows (A Full House, Fives full of Queens)
    BB collected $186 from Main pot
    *********************
    'Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.'
  10. #10
    On the bizzaro FTR site, someone is posting

    Me am hit sets getting paid! So Sad! Hello!
  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by zenbitz
    On the bizzaro FTR site, someone is posting

    Me am hit sets getting paid! So Sad! Hello!
    'Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.'

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